Obsessive eaters?

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Dry Rot

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What do you do about "good doers"?

I'm beginning to think it is a vicious circle. Pony starts to get a bit too fat, so it is moved onto poor grazing or put on a diet. Pony loses weight (we hope!).

Pony then gets access to better grazing -- maybe it's just because the grass grows or maybe it is put back into its original paddock. Anyway, pony then remembers its previous hunger and eats as if there is no tomorrow, storing up fat against the hard times it expects to come. Pony is now obese again. So back onto a diet fulfilling its own predictions.

Surely, this is now a vicious circle. A merry-go-round which leaves us with a pony that's an obsessive eater. "I'd better eat all I can today as tomorrow I will be starving again". And that's exactly what happens!

Some ponies seem to be able to regulate their eating habits and stay in reasonable shape even though they are knee deep in grass. But others are hopeless. How do you break the cycle?
 
I think taking the middle line is probably the best bet. Lots of low energy density forage to eat and regular exercise aiming at slow weight loss and building up muscle and condition.

Rapid weight loss, as with people, will just lead to loss of muscle mass and so lower the calorie requirement and capacity for work to burn more calories. It's also cruel. Unless there is an immediate health issue associated with an animal's weight it should probably take 6 months or so.

Although I don't have experience of this in horses, I have read and also have personal experience that animals lower down the pecking order tend to over eat. It has been hypothesized that this is die to them always being unsure if they are going to get access to the food or more dominant animals will push them off.

I've also noticed that animals kept on their own get fat and will also lose it when they get company. So being turned out with lots of mates, but not too many very dominant horses might help.

There's a mechanism for fat regain after dieting been found in humans. There are hormones that control hunger released by fat cells and the gut. I have just been reading a paper where they have found that these hormones are still disordered a year after the weight loss. It's quite likely that horses have a similar mechanism.

Paula
 
I think the answer is to try to get them to loose the weight slowly over a period of time, they are less likely to put it back on so quickly, especially if you incorporate exercise into the regime.

Lots of exercise, plenty of fibre and less sugar I guess.
 
Some interesting points there that I hadn't thought of. I've tended to supply good clean straw on the theory that they do need something going through the gut.

I'll try putting "fatty'' back with the herd as they are on a pretty bare field anyway, though looking good for. She is currently on her own and I know she doesn't like that much. Comfort eating? I've just interviewed a new girl so we'll be tackling the exercise aspect too.
 
I have a good doer that loves food.

He was starved to the point of death as a 2 year old, so I never ration his access to forage because, for him, it is extremely stressful and stress lowers the immune system. He would become more food obsessive if denied food too.

With humans and horses, take the emotion out of food. Its not withheld, its not a reward, it just is.
He doesn't get treats as a form of praise, reward or for him to love me.

Sometimes, he gets something nice in his feed like a banana, a swede or marmite just to make it a pleasant variation, but mostly its a small basic fibre based feed.

He gets turned out 24/7 on good grass with plenty of acreage with horses to run with and cattle/sheep to eat the grass. Never put on short stressed grass. Minimal or no rugging.

He's relaxed but active. He doesn't need to gorge and has to work to burn calories. Brisk walking is a good fat burner rather than faster paces.
He's weigh taped fortnightly and if he's getting too much grass I get him off the grass from late morning to early evening and ride then and/or stable or increase workload if at all possible.

If he keeps fit, he seems to metabolise more efficently because his weight remains more constant. I know with humans the yo yo effect of dieting causes problems, so with him, my aim is to keep everything constant bearing in mind the seasonal factors in his management.
 
There was a study last year that proved restricting turnout resulted in binge eating.

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/397/306541.html

It is worth noting that horses with Insulin Resistance suffer with insatiable hunger - which will result in excessive eating too.

"When the equine’s body fails to regulate, metabolize, use and store glucose properly, the horse will shows signs of never-ending hunger, overeating and excess weight gain."

http://viim.org/horse-cushings-insuline-resistance-metabolic-syndrome.php

Has your pony been tested?
 
No, not tested.

This pony can put on fat at an incredible rate. By mistake, the electric tape was not switched on and she reach under to get at grass intended for hay, perhaps a 6" to 12" strip, 20 foot long. It has gone straight to her back and belly! She managed to maintain weight, if not increase, on a diet of ad lib barley straw.

Exercise has been a problem because of the weather and demands of work.
 
I second getting a cushing test. Although there were limited other cushings symptoms my horse was an obsessive eater, now he is on meds his appertite is back to a normal horse.

If a horse has cushings, its body continuously acts as if it is going into Winter, hence the need to put down fat stores.

Really worth ruling out.
 
canteron said:
I second getting a cushing test. Although there were limited other cushings symptoms my horse was an obsessive eater, now he is on meds his appertite is back to a normal horse.

If a horse has cushings, its body continuously acts as if it is going into Winter, hence the need to put down fat stores.

Really worth ruling out.
Click to expand...

Note taken! The definition fits.
 
I have a "reformed" obsessive eater ;)

He had been starved at one point in his life - and now he copes rather well. He is a good doer, but through careful management he is a good weight, isn't particularly restricted (at least not from his point of view).

He is fed hay/straw mixed, stuffed in to double small holed nets. He is on short grazing, all day, in at night. He is fed high fiber, lower protein. He is worked minimum 5 days a week. He is kept lightly rugged when necessary. I can feed him enough to sustain him over longer periods - but now he doesn't act like he's being starved. He's stopped weaving and is generally a happy chap. But heaven forbid if he's the last one fed ;)
 
It surely depends on what type and length of grass you are putting the pony back onto when it has lost the required weight? Really there needs to be a routine that manages the weight permanently rather than chopping and changing which will lead to fluctuations in weight.
I manage my Welshies weight well by having the same routine all year - he is on a decent sized grass area in the day but he is on it all year, so it is kept down - so he can never 'stuff his face', but can nibble all day every day to keep him happy. I stable him at night on a good quantity of soaked hay - to get him off the grass for 12 hours and ensure he is not getting too much sugar in his diet for an overload. He is ridden regulalrly up and down the hills - 6 days a week in summer and autumn and at weekends in the winter. He is never rugged at all.
This ensures a stable weight balance that can then be controlled more by upping exercise or reducing his night time hay a bit if needs be.
It is a bit like humans that go on a strict diet, loose the weight and then eat normally again...the weight goes back on because the 'diet' needs to be a lifestyle permanent change ideally, to keep the weight off.
 
canteron said:
I second getting a cushing test. Although there were limited other cushings symptoms my horse was an obsessive eater, now he is on meds his appertite is back to a normal horse.

If a horse has cushings, its body continuously acts as if it is going into Winter, hence the need to put down fat stores.

Really worth ruling out.
Click to expand...

My horse has Cushings but is not an obsessive eater, and Oberon suggested testing for Insulin Resistance - which is a seperate condition.
Horses can have both together but the insatiable appetite is a sign of IR.
It's important to know that because the blood test is different.
Talk to your vet, they may take blood to test for both conditions.
Both carry a big risk of laminitis if uncontrolled but IR is controlled by correct diet and exercise (similar regime to diabetes in humans) but PPID (Cushings) is controlled with Pergolide (Prascend).
Good luck
 
I have three potential fatties here that are on a constant diet. It is hardest when they first go out on the grass in the spring. I let the poor doers eat down a small paddock at a time and then introduce the fatties. At first they have to be in during the day (either in the sand turnout or in a stable) with soaked hay or hi fibre haylage mixed with straw. Once the paddock is really bare, they go out 24/7 with additional hay/haylage as required. They always have access to forage, be it tiny amounts of grass or haylage/hay/straw. They are never just put on a bare paddock as their bodies will go into starvation mode. This keeps them at an ideal weight without the binge eating followed by crash dieting. I believe, as with humans, crash dieting causes a lowering of the metabolic rate and so is counter productive. My horses stay the same weight throughout the year.
 
I have a very good doer, so much so, I have to watch her weightl like a hawk. For the past 3 years she has weighed & soaked hay in Elim-a-nets, exercised every day, turned out with a green guard muzzle for 5-6 hours, fed a small amount of fast fibre and in the winter I under rug her. For the last 3 years she looks the right weight, it's hard work but worth it.
 
Obsessive eaters, is a good definition of all horses in my view.

The reason that they are like this is evolution. The horse is a walking eating machine, developed over millions of years. Nothing we have done in the fairly recent past has done anything to alter this, apart from creating the conditions which can and do prove fatal to a lot of horses.

The horse is unique amongst our domestic animals with regard to its dietary needs and requirement to move.

It has developed a digestive system which processes lots of grass which is of a low feed value, not stale, mouldy or anything detrimental, just low in feed value. Because its natural food is low in feed value, it needs to eat a lot of it, so much in fact, that it is a compulsive, obsessive eater. Also because its natural food is fairly scarce it has to move a lot to find it.

The modern horse, fed lots of high feed value foods, such as improved grass, hay and haylage made from improved grass, cereals, and of course sugar, horses are sugarholic's, causes the horse to suffer, because they just cannot cope with the modern ideas of feeding and keeping them.


The food they now get coupled with the sedentary lifestyle we force on them has lead to the plethora of ills which affect the modern horse.

Horses eat obsessively because that is what they do. To avoid all the metabolic disorders, subsequent ulcers, laminitis and colic we need to allow our horses to eat a suitable food and as much of it as THEY want.

Also, because they are compulsive movers they need to be allowed to move. That way the natural athleticism which we so much admire and crave in our horses maintains the muscle, tendon and bone quality, rather than the stresses and strains which result in the chronic lameness which all our horses, particularly those expected to compete are prone.
 
I have several Highland ponies here and most are not difficult to manage. The stallion in particular is fine, even when left on good grazing. I have sold off any which have not been easy to manage as it is very time consuming managing the bad ones, and not very good for the breed generally, in my opinion. I'm trying to avoid the football conformation!

Just spoken to the vet and will be looking into getting the Cushings test done. I shall be following a few of the suggestions here first as it will apparently cost around £150 for the test.

Thanks to everyone for your help and advice which is appreciated.
 
Dry Rot said:
Just spoken to the vet and will be looking into getting the Cushings test done. I shall be following a few of the suggestions here first as it will apparently cost around £150 for the test.
Click to expand...

That sounds an extortionate, it cost me about £60, that includes the test and vets time and VAT! I would clarify why it costs so much. Perhaps it includes a glucose and insulin test? It would be sensible to test all three but before you do anything, please join the EC/IR group on Yahoo. They have well over 10,000 members who own PPID or IR equines and have sought help support and advice, and then passed on their experiences and findings so they can help others. It is owned by experts who will guide you and advise you about which tests are best to have done and what preparations you should make for them.
The link for the group is on this website, where you can get tons of info.
http://www.ecirhorse.com
 
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