Odd feet on new horse... opinions please.

kittykatcat

Well-Known Member
Joined
1 August 2007
Messages
486
Wow! Well done for taking this horse on. He is lucky to come to you. You are clearly clued up and have lots of support. Mega ripples on his feet (where the farrier hasn't rasped them off) would suggest he is going to be quite sensitive to diet. But you probs already know this :) good luck!!!
 

gadetra

Well-Known Member
Joined
26 January 2009
Messages
1,406
Location
Longford, Ireland
I wonder if the fact that he's not keen to jump could be related to his feet hurting... His breeding suggests he should be good at jumping... (sire- Cavalier Royale dam sire- Sea Crest). What do you think?
I cannot help with the feet, I am not knowledgeable in any way there, and there is nothing I could tell you about them anyway, you know your stuff!

However I can tell you a bit about his breeding. On breeding alone, he WILL jump. Practice is a different matter though!

Cavalier Royale is a Cor De Bryere (sp?) Horse out of a mare called Ligustra (sp?). He was a continental horse, Holstein I think, and an absolute legend of ISH breeding. He crossed extremely well with Irish mares, and he appears in an awful lot of top class ISH eventing/SJ pedigrees. (Look at Mary King's Imperial Master, He is by him, there are many many many examples.) His back breeding has a lot of TB in it, Rantzau, Cottage Son, Ladykiller etc. Basically all the founding fathers of the modern WB competition horse (most of these were Irish TB's too-no wonder he crosses so sell, and those WB lines continue to cross well with Irish mares). His successful progeny are too many to list, and there are numerous stallion sons around, approved and not approved!

Cavalier Royale's sire, Cor de la Bryere, is one of the most influential Selle francais sport horse sires, he stood in germany and went back to France. He appears an awful lot in modern sporthorses too, and was a legend in his own lifetime.

Sea Crest was a beautifully bred Irish draught, who is the sire of Ireland's most successful modern SJ stallion, Cruising. Cruising jumped internationally (won the Aachen Grand Prix)and has 1000+ offspring reg'd. Interestingly, you say your horse has small feet. Cruising was known for getting neat little feet. Sea Crest was by a mare by Tara, the damsire of Clover Hill, who requires no introduction! His sire Knockboy was also a graded jumper, and an athletic ID. Sea Crest was a Grade A jumper also. Sea Crest is also the sire of Lenamore, Caroline Powells 4* campaigner.

He is long dead now, so I am guessing your horse is either really old :eek: or by a horse by Sea Crest, such as Coolcronan Wood?

Cavalier Royale died in a fight with another stallion when the other stallion got in to his field. that stallion interestingly was French Bred, and has gotten some seriously classy eventers.
The man who stood Cavalier Royale was one of the of not the earliest adopter of continental bloodlines into Ireland. Cavalier Royale was not approved in the ISH studbook for years, as there was considerable suspicion around him being foreign bred, and was only fully approved in later years. It was his incredible progeny performance that in the end got him fully approved. He was the first foreign bred to have an influence in Ireland. He has also been dead for sometime now, so most of his stock are older. However, there are still straws around off him so there are a select few youngsters still around by him.

Very nice breeding, ISH royalty actually! Are you aiming to jump/hunt him?


ETA if you have his reg'd name, or dam's name, I can give you his comp record from when he was over here (Assuming he did not leave as a foal)
 

kezz86

Well-Known Member
Joined
31 August 2008
Messages
350
My horse's dam sire is Sea Crest...

His sire is Cavalier Royale. Really interesting thanks gadetra!

Bailey (my boy) is 13years old apparently born 2000 and it looks like his registered name is "Brother Bear" but I'm not sure I'd have to have another look at his passport to check that.

I'm not looking to hunt or jump him actually I'm hoping to do a bit of dressage and maybe side-saddle if I can get a saddle to fit, but mostly I'm a happy hacker!
We'll see though if we find he's very talented and lets a numpty like me jump him who knows what might happen :D

His feet look small but we've measured them and he comes up in the largest size of Cavallo hoof boot so perhaps not that small at all!

Really interesting stuff!
 

gadetra

Well-Known Member
Joined
26 January 2009
Messages
1,406
Location
Longford, Ireland
The only colts/geldings reg'd by Cavalier Royale out of a Sea Crest mare were born in 1999. So he might still be 13 if he was a very late foal!

There is a mare reg'd for 2000, but co colts/geldings.

Of the colts, one is called Cavalier Crest, he has 21 registers SJI (Showjumping Ireland points, the Irish BS). His owner is reg's as Jean Morton, and his first comp was in Kill EC at 100cm with Luke Drea, then he is ridden by Jean morton, Daisy Duggan, Andrew Lyons, johhny O Connell and John Floody. His record goes form 2003 to 2005. His last comp was at 1.10m. He has 23 reg'd outings. He was bred by Mr and Mrs David Fee and dam name was Lida.

The second is called Cavacrest. He is 1999 again, owner is down as William Lapsley. he has 22 SJI points, and his record is only for 2004. He has 20 outings reg'd against him that year, ridden in all but one by Kelda Morgan, his last one by Gerard William Lehy, and he competed up to 110cms. He was bred by Patrick Gallagher and dam name is Rose Quest.

If he is neither of these, check the passport and I can look him up. There are no 'Brother Bear' 's reg'd on the system.
Does he have breeding recorded on the passport?
 

kezz86

Well-Known Member
Joined
31 August 2008
Messages
350
The only colts/geldings reg'd by Cavalier Royale out of a Sea Crest mare were born in 1999. So he might still be 13 if he was a very late foal!

There is a mare reg'd for 2000, but co colts/geldings.

Of the colts, one is called Cavalier Crest, he has 21 registers SJI (Showjumping Ireland points, the Irish BS). His owner is reg's as Jean Morton, and his first comp was in Kill EC at 100cm with Luke Drea, then he is ridden by Jean morton, Daisy Duggan, Andrew Lyons, johhny O Connell and John Floody. His record goes form 2003 to 2005. His last comp was at 1.10m. He has 23 reg'd outings. He was bred by Mr and Mrs David Fee and dam name was Lida.

The second is called Cavacrest. He is 1999 again, owner is down as William Lapsley. he has 22 SJI points, and his record is only for 2004. He has 20 outings reg'd against him that year, ridden in all but one by Kelda Morgan, his last one by Gerard William Lehy, and he competed up to 110cms. He was bred by Patrick Gallagher and dam name is Rose Quest.

If he is neither of these, check the passport and I can look him up. There are no 'Brother Bear' 's reg'd on the system.
Does he have breeding recorded on the passport?
I've not had a chance to check this yet will do at some point! Thanks it's interesting stuff!

Well today is D'day the shoes are coming off in the next hour.

I'll report back with photos when I can.
 

kezz86

Well-Known Member
Joined
31 August 2008
Messages
350
Well the shoes are off poor boy they truly are awful feet :(

My trimmer has given them a 3 out of 10 (10 being best 1 being worst) so not a good score at all but she "thinks" and is positive that we can get them to a 7 in about 6 months! I hope she's right!

I'm under strict instructions now we are only to start with 10 minute walks booted in front and see how he goes if no good I'll need to get him boots for the backs too. :(

Comfortable movement is key!

If he isn't comfortable enough in the paddock he will get a "mud pit" and when I have some money I'll sort out the "gravel pit" both will take the pressure off his toes and frogs.

I will take some photos tonight I didn't have time just now as I had his shoes taken off in my "lunch-break" lol

I really hope I'm doing the right thing it's just so scary as although I've done it before with my mare she was relatively easy...
 
Joined
19 July 2010
Messages
22,593
You have done the right thing? No doubts at all that you have.
Will it be hard going? Yes, at times it might well be tough.

Whenever you are feeling low, read the Rockley blog and look at the hoof transformations, angles change, heels decontract etc...
 

kezz86

Well-Known Member
Joined
31 August 2008
Messages
350
You have done the right thing? No doubts at all that you have.
Will it be hard going? Yes, at times it might well be tough.

Whenever you are feeling low, read the Rockley blog and look at the hoof transformations, angles change, heels decontract etc...
Thanks Faracat - I know you're right I know deep down it's the right thing (not only because I don't know any thing about shoes but for his well being) it's just scary seeing his feet now with not metal to "protect" them and looking so vulnerable on the ground all chipped and horrid looking. A lot of hoof came away with the shoes so he was left with not a lot of hood wall.

I'm ready for this journey but I love this boy so much I just want to make sure he's comfortable!
 

GrumpyHero

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 May 2010
Messages
405
Best of luck to you :)
I'm just starting out barefoot too on a horribly foot sore flat footed TB!
He has to be booted everywhere but the field and the school - it's hard work but i know it will be worth it in the end when he has lovely healthy feet!

x
 

kezz86

Well-Known Member
Joined
31 August 2008
Messages
350
I'll bet he'll be more comfortable very soon. Take lots of photographs along the way...!
I hope so!

I will I'm going to try to remember to take photos at least every two weeks (on the Tuesday so that it's exactly 2 weeks from when I last took pics)
 

TrasaM

Well-Known Member
Joined
19 May 2012
Messages
4,742
Location
Midlands
I'm really looking forward to seeing how his feet develop. Lucky boy to have landed with someone who cared enough to question how be was being shod. Best of luck and hope his transition goes smoothly for you both.
 

kezz86

Well-Known Member
Joined
31 August 2008
Messages
350
I'm really looking forward to seeing how his feet develop. Lucky boy to have landed with someone who cared enough to question how be was being shod. Best of luck and hope his transition goes smoothly for you both.
Thank you for such a lovely comment :) It's great to have support!
 

christine48

Well-Known Member
Joined
21 June 2007
Messages
2,156
Have got a good remedial farrier in your area? The left fore is terribly unbalanced and over loading one side. We had one with a foot similar to that one which was sorted out by a good remedial farrier. He did try to explain what he did, ( spiral trimming). We had her shod every four weeks to keep the hoof balanced. A hoof as unbalanced as your horses will impact on structures higher up the limb, and will affect future soundness.
I think once you get the balance and diet better, the horn quality will improve, but it will take months.
There's a good book 'No foot no horse' by Martin Deacon. Well worth reading.
 

kezz86

Well-Known Member
Joined
31 August 2008
Messages
350
Have got a good remedial farrier in your area? The left fore is terribly unbalanced and over loading one side. We had one with a foot similar to that one which was sorted out by a good remedial farrier. He did try to explain what he did, ( spiral trimming). We had her shod every four weeks to keep the hoof balanced. A hoof as unbalanced as your horses will impact on structures higher up the limb, and will affect future soundness.
I think once you get the balance and diet better, the horn quality will improve, but it will take months.
There's a good book 'No foot no horse' by Martin Deacon. Well worth reading.
Thanks for the book suggestion I'll have a look I enjoy that sort of thing.

Well the shoes have come off and he is already moving much better without boots in the field and ridden in his trainers.

Our plan for now is to protect the feet from damage with boots and pray he can grow us some nice new hoof. I'm in it for the long haul and he is down to 10-15 minute walk hacks on soft surfaces for some comfortable movement to get the blood flowing.

He's also out 24/7 so he's free to move around as much or as little as he likes, I have already caught him trotting around the paddock enjoying himself so he's happy enough. I'm just hoping it rains soon and he doesn't do too much that he bruises his delicate soles.
 

dogatemysalad

Well-Known Member
Joined
22 July 2013
Messages
5,393
Hope you get some rain then to soften the ground a little for him. It might be beneficial to have a physio/McTimoney or similar out at some point as he'll be moving in a different way and could be a little sore.

Good luck with your rehab. The book christine48 mentions is very good BTW.
 

kezz86

Well-Known Member
Joined
31 August 2008
Messages
350
Hope you get some rain then to soften the ground a little for him. It might be beneficial to have a physio/McTimoney or similar out at some point as he'll be moving in a different way and could be a little sore.

Good luck with your rehab. The book christine48 mentions is very good BTW.
Thanks.

I was talking about that with my trimmer, she's ace she thinks of everything we spoke about feed body workers and so much more! I've known her 2 years now but we still natter about everything the horses might need every time. We will probs get someone out for him in the next month or two once his feet have started to settle. My mare will be due about then too so hopefully it'll all work out.

Well good news is it's started raining! Yippee!
 
Last edited:

kezz86

Well-Known Member
Joined
31 August 2008
Messages
350
So the shoes are off and here are the pics...
They truly are awful please no crit unless it's useful. Please remember this horse came to me with these feet and my trimmer and I are now doing what we believe is best for him.

Also I'm aware my little hard-standing area is a mess, please excuse the mess and just so you know the horses are never left in this area unattended. We've only been at this farm for a month and slowly, slowly we're tidying it up!

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/20808_10151842715137065_1848703414_n.jpg
Me looking pained as we examine the damage! lol

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1185554_10151842715217065_624925956_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1000327_10151842715297065_1169313932_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1003380_10151842722692065_1225544786_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/9340_10151842722722065_1347064068_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1157511_10151842722712065_125441787_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/971268_10151842723072065_675129183_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/534022_10151842723102065_1273388736_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/13575_10151842723082065_1059037988_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/933969_10151842723452065_74834613_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1005807_10151842723512065_863071369_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1002353_10151842731702065_466146625_n.jpg
Purple is purple spray I put on there when the shoes were still on as they were smelly
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1149035_10151842731722065_610611724_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/1174917_10151842731757065_1015166662_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1002362_10151842732317065_910793371_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/598464_10151842732352065_2017044260_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/533215_10151842732347065_193733510_n.jpg

Lots of photos!

Poor little tootsies had no hoof wall and what he did have came off with the shoes!

Now we are just willing him to grow some foot!
Comfortable movement in his boots and on grass for the time being. Next trim booked for the 12th September but my trimmer is on the end of the phone should I have an questions (she only lives about 15 mins away!).

So what do you think guys and gals? I know we are a long way off but it's a start!
 

kezz86

Well-Known Member
Joined
31 August 2008
Messages
350

GrumpyHero

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 May 2010
Messages
405
Nice angle change on the 'worst foot'! His frogs seem to have beefed up a bit too - I'm having trouble getting this to happen with mine!

Definitely a positive change there, well done :)
 

kezz86

Well-Known Member
Joined
31 August 2008
Messages
350
Thanks Jess and Nikkimariet!

It's so exciting to see how they change, He's wearing boots all round to give him a chance to grow some foot between trims.

I'll keep posting pics for those interested.

My trimmer scored his toes a 2/10 on the first visit and a 310 on the last hopefully the score will keep improving :)
 

Pigeon

Well-Known Member
Joined
4 July 2012
Messages
3,790
Poor boy! (he looks a lovely stamp of horse btw from the pics) But he has improved so much already. Onwards and upwards!

This has been a really interesting read as I know much less than I should about feet!
 

cptrayes

Well-Known Member
Joined
4 March 2008
Messages
14,749
He's wearing boots all round to give him a chance to grow some foot between trims.

Unless he is sore without them I would question whether this is the right thing to do. It will prevent him from rebalancing his feet as he wants, and leave him reliant on the judgement of the trimmer. If you can leave him to wear his own feet he will make himself a set that are balanced to whatever subtle body issues he may have.

Great angle changes happening. He looks like a horse who barefoot will be a lifesaver for. Well done :)
 

kezz86

Well-Known Member
Joined
31 August 2008
Messages
350
Unless he is sore without them I would question whether this is the right thing to do. It will prevent him from rebalancing his feet as he wants, and leave him reliant on the judgement of the trimmer. If you can leave him to wear his own feet he will make himself a set that are balanced to whatever subtle body issues he may have.

Great angle changes happening. He looks like a horse who barefoot will be a lifesaver for. Well done :)
Should have said he's wearing boots all round for hacking only... as he is sore on the tracks around the yard and on the bridleways only good on smooth tarmac and grass :(

Getting there slowly I am hoping to take off the backs for hacking in the next month as these have improved so much I think they are nearly ready to go bare.

Thank you all so much for your lovely comments I'm glad you're enjoying seeing him progress as much as I am.

Nature really is incredible! I love how leaving it to near enough do it's own thing is making such a difference.

My trimmer is a great believer in less is more she hardly does anything when she trims Bailey's feet literally just a tidy up to help prevent the grumbles from others on the yard who are "non-believers"!!

Next trim is on the 23rd Oct so weather permitting I'll pop some updated photos up around that time :)
 
Top