Offering a brood mare on lease

[Rollin]

I have three pure bred Cleveland Bay fillies who are full sisters. There are currently only 15-20 pure bred Cleveland Bays being registered in the stud book each year. We have probably the last frozen semen for a stallion who is now deceased and whose progeny will be highly desirable.

One of my pure bred fillies is is graded by CBHS 'subject to having a foal' and is a good mate for this stallion. As we are now getting too old to continue breeding Cleveland Bays we are thinking of offering her on lease 'in foal' to this stallion. Not for sale as I want her back.

I don't want to put her in foal if we have no client for reasons just explained. We have a good AI centre in France and vet fees for AI will be cheaper in France than in the UK.

How should I word a contract for a prospective lessee with regard to up-front costs for AI?

 

[popsdosh]

I have three pure bred Cleveland Bay fillies who are full sisters. There are currently only 15-20 pure bred Cleveland Bays being registered in the stud book each year. We have probably the last frozen semen for a stallion who is now deceased and whose progeny will be highly desirable.

One of my pure bred fillies is is graded by CBHS 'subject to having a foal' and is a good mate for this stallion. As we are now getting too old to continue breeding Cleveland Bays we are thinking of offering her on lease 'in foal' to this stallion. Not for sale as I want her back.

I don't want to put her in foal if we have no client for reasons just explained. We have a good AI centre in France and vet fees for AI will be cheaper in France than in the UK.

How should I word a contract for a prospective lessee with regard to up-front costs for AI?

Surely if your offering her leased in foal the AI costs will be your responsibility you will need to recoupe them as part of your lease arrangement. I cant see anybody wanting to lease a mare and then take a hit if they dont get in foal. Its difficult enough to give good mares away let alone get money for them. I know that sounds a little harsh but its the reality at the moment.
I think you need to find somebody who wants her first on your terms and then discuss a lease fee including your cost on an in foal basis.

 

[Maesfen]

Totally agree with Pops.
I would imagine the 'easiest' way to go would be to advertise with the CBHS and elsewhere then see if there is interest first.
Just because she is a Rare Breed is not a given that anyone will want her or want to use that stallion either. Most people who loan/lease a broodmare do so that they are in charge of all decisions and costs are theirs; I'm not sure the dogmatic 'this is the stallion you must use' will suit some even if he's as you say as you are in essence asking someone to cover the costs of the completion of her grading for you.
Saying that however, it might be more approachable if you got her in foal and then sold the foal in utero to cover your costs rather than leasing her.

 

[crabbymare]

I have a mare on free breeding lease and the only stipulation was that she was to stay at one of some specified yards. other than that I had free choice of stallion and other than her being abroad so further to visit it has been very straightforwards. with yours you would be better off trying to find someone through the breed society but you may also need to be open to whoever takes her on using a stallion of their choice which may or may not be a cleveland. with the mare I have the owner has no responsibility for the keep or the costs involved with getting her in foal through to foaling. I do have a good deal with the place she is kept but that is by the by. this mare is a states premium and may by the time the foal is born have a son that is licensed (if he passes his performance test) and has offspring doing well in europe and across in either canada or usa so she is well proven as a producer of good stock (there was another mare also available with just as good a record) and she was free lease so I would not expect to pay anything for a young mare that has no breeding record even though she is from what is now a minority breed. sorry if its not what you want to hear but if you want to find someone you need to be as flexible as possible

 

[Rollin]

Thanks for your replies. I know there is already interest in this breeding because I have the only semen left for this stallion. I don't want to sell her or give her away but with only 15-20 foals born each year I feel she should be bred to a pure bred stallion. No I would not lease her for part-bred breeding.

As I own the semen the lease cost should reflect the value of the foal IMO.

 

[Equi]

As a rare breed i think she needs bred to a pure - but i think the way to do it is to get her leased and offer the frozen seamen to the leasee. They may have another purebred in mind, and you need to stipulate that any breeding must be to a purebred.

 

[popsdosh]

Thanks for your replies. I know there is already interest in this breeding because I have the only semen left for this stallion. I don't want to sell her or give her away but with only 15-20 foals born each year I feel she should be bred to a pure bred stallion. No I would not lease her for part-bred breeding.

As I own the semen the lease cost should reflect the value of the foal IMO.

Thats ok but you are expecting somebody else to take on the risk of breeding what you have already deemed to be the only mating acceptable to you. Not to mention the expense, I think I would go out and buy a three yo it would be a hell of a lot cheaper. Your biggest issue will be finding anybody interested let alone getting a return on it.
Surely ultimately any leasing agreement will reflect the value of the foal she is carrying so I cant quite understand the problem. However others may not agree on that value.Then I suppose you have to factor in if you are going to maybe contribute as well altruistically to helping the numbers. You need to find somebody to take her on first as I think thats going to be the difficult bit as most lease agreements of empty mares are taken on by people who have their own matings in mind. It is very common for stallion owners to lease top mares to cover as marketing for a young stallion.

 

[ihatework]

Thanks for your replies. I know there is already interest in this breeding because I have the only semen left for this stallion. I don't want to sell her or give her away but with only 15-20 foals born each year I feel she should be bred to a pure bred stallion. No I would not lease her for part-bred breeding.

As I own the semen the lease cost should reflect the value of the foal IMO.

I'm struggling to understand if why you have no client for a foal then why you would suddenly have a client for the same pre specified breeding cross and the mare on lease?

Why not suss out true interest with a view to selling in utero?

Otherwise just hold the semen until such time you do have the client base?

I would be no expert on breeding leases and even less of an expert on rare breeds, but I do know that I could reasonably easily go and find a well bred and proven sports mare on free breeding loan if I so wished.

 

[GemG]

I totally see where you are coming from Rollin...

But the fundamental point here is you need to find that person who is wanting that mare X stallion combination and must obviously share the same passion for the breed and for preserving same. If you can find that person then the lease is a simple matter of drafting up what suits both, maybe a few drafts before agreeing and going ahead.

Unfortunately for you, as ihatework suggests a broodmare lease/loan is 'fairly' easy to find for free. (I did exactly that to breed a single foal for myself to our non commercial stallion).. - and she was rather special. I say free, of course, it cost plenty in terms of keep/forage/wormer/stress/worry etc - and I dare say I would have most certainly have cut my costs and time by going out and simply buying a nice yearling. ... I'm sliding off topic... But I wouldn't for a second have chosen one that stipulated which stallion it had to be by, I might as well let the breeder do the mating and I would wait to see what comes out before I part with my cash.

You need to go through your contacts (CB ones) and spread the word about what your looking for, but I wouldn't expect much in the way of monetary gain, more hoping for someone who will honour, respect and enjoy breeding from your mare and preserving the breed.

 

[Ddraig_wen]

I suppose really it would come down to the cost of the lease fee as to how many people would be interested. Broodmare loan/leases can be obtained relatively easily for free. We had a beautiful Forest Saga mare on loan/lease for 2 years and her daughter for a year not long after.
Her daughter was sold not too long after she went back to her owners. We would have bought her but we couldn't afford her price tag due to her breeding.

Hopefully a breed enthusiast will come forward. Who's the stallion?

 

[Rollin]

Bantry Bere. I know an American breeder would bite my hand off for the semen. The mating is compliant too. With so few pre breds in-breeding can be a problem. We have always bred to reduce in-breeding.

 

[Rollin]

Thats ok but you are expecting somebody else to take on the risk of breeding what you have already deemed to be the only mating acceptable to you. Not to mention the expense, I think I would go out and buy a three yo it would be a hell of a lot cheaper. Your biggest issue will be finding anybody interested let alone getting a return on it.
Surely ultimately any leasing agreement will reflect the value of the foal she is carrying so I cant quite understand the problem. However others may not agree on that value.Then I suppose you have to factor in if you are going to maybe contribute as well altruistically to helping the numbers. You need to find somebody to take her on first as I think thats going to be the difficult bit as most lease agreements of empty mares are taken on by people who have their own matings in mind. It is very common for stallion owners to lease top mares to cover as marketing for a young stallion.

Only just picking up on the thread. I have not said someone else would take the risk have I? I asked for advice on contract for brood mares on lease. As for buying a pure bred filly of her quality at less cost - possibly if you could find one. A dutch agent has spent a year looking for pure bred Cleveland Bay mares aged 3 years + for a breeding project in Pakistan - she found it was very difficult to find pure bred mares for sale.

 

[ihatework]

Only just picking up on the thread. I have not said someone else would take the risk have I? I asked for advice on contract for brood mares on lease. As for buying a pure bred filly of her quality at less cost - possibly if you could find one. A dutch agent has spent a year looking for pure bred Cleveland Bay mares aged 3 years + for a breeding project in Pakistan - she found it was very difficult to find pure bred mares for sale.

OK, so assuming you have found, or will find someone to lease the mare, things to consider could include the following:

- Stipulation of the stallions allowed and studbooks to be registered to
- Cost of the semen if purchasing from you and associated terms
- Location the mare is to be kept and any specific management requirements
- Cost of the lease and how/when funds will be paid
- Stipulate at no stage will they be legal owner of the mare
- Resulting foal will be owned by the leaser and they will be the registered breeder
- Leaser should accept all costs associated with keep and veterinary pre and post foaling costs for both mare and foal until a specified time point (weaning?)
- What if the mare fails to get in foal? Do you accept the mare back? Do you refund any of the lease fee?
- What if there is a significant accident/illness/death of the mare - will the mare be insured? Stipulate you need to be involved in decision making process in the event of the above but that if you are uncontactable in an emergency situation then the vet can euthanise.
- Do you want to have anything specified regarding the weaning process?

Most of all get the agreement written up by a lawyer once you have agreed the terms with your leaser.

 

[Rollin]

Thank you I hate Work. The mare won't go anywhere unless she is scanned in foal to this stallion. As I have said, I think the AI costs will be far less if she goes to a French centre.

However, because of my age I do not want to put her in foal if I do not have a client who will foal her and keep the foal.

 

[honetpot]

Breeding is a vanity project as it is. I can not see anyone wanting to lease( free or not) a mare to have it put in foal when you do not have a choice of stallion, unless the stallion is exceptional/ extremely saleable name. CB are rare for a reason, whilst they make a good outcross for performance horses pure CB have a limited appeal to the young stock buyer unlike ID.
I would have a look at the WPCS website, its common for welsh breeders to loan out stallions and mares on breeding loan