Offering livery???

[dannykins]

Those of you who have your own yard or land and have liveries or have done in the past, have you got any info or advice?

Following from my last thread, i might be buying a 9 acre field with planning permission for stables, hay store and tack room. There will be one or two spare stables and so am thinking of offering livery to give me a bit of extra money, company and hopefully someone who can occasionally help with my horses (eg the occasional day turnout).

So i would only be looking for one DIY livery, but could also maybe offer grass livery as theres plenty of grazing.

Do people bother with public liability for livery on such a small scale or would it be sufficient just to have a contract drawn up?

The planning permission for the stables is classed as private use so could i get away with having a livery as it's not a proper business as such, and how would they find out really ?!?!?

If anyone has had the odd livery just to help with costs etc any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks very much

 

[the watcher]

1) people talk, so if you do offer livery word will get out, nosy neighbours or disgruntled people with failed planning applications are everywhere
2) if you find somebody to take up an extra stable you MUST write into their livery contract that they are there to help you, and have livery at a discount
3) 9 acres isn't much, by the time you have built yard, storage barn and possibly schooling area you will have enough grazing for 4 horses/or 6 small ponies max
4) I would consider sheep for the excess spring grass, if your fencing is suitable..much easier to deal with than a livery!

 

[miller]

Public Liability - yes I personally wouldn't do it without
PP - yes, as you are offering a service and taking money then you will need to obtain permission from council whether it's one horse or 100.
TBH as said above you won't have major amounts left after your build - personally would buy a small companion or offer to graze sheep for someone if your fencing would be suitable

 

[Llwyncwn]

I agree, if you are intending to take on a livery you need to cover your ass with Public Liability. Also, an interesting point I found out recently is that if someone helps you with yard duties in return for free stabling etc. this amounts to employment and you need Employers Liability too!

 

[allijudd]

check with the council but i think they say that one to 3 liveries doesnt constitute the need for pp...but publc liability is a must!...nfu does excellent prices on this sort of insurance and you can choose what you want to put in it...

we advise our liveries to have their own insurance cuase although they are covered with us for tack etc etc they are not covered when they leave the damn tack room door open!

 

[dieseldog]

Our council told us 1 horse its a business you have to pay business rates. the insurance was £2k per year (you'll probably get it cheaper as we had a lot of schools) but the excess is £1k per incident - which I would have thought would be the same.

If you are just offering a stable and grazing you are looking at about £15/week so you will end up paying out more than you'll ever make, so you'll be paying for the hassle having a livery entails.

 

[OWLIE185]

You must ensure that each of the owners has current public liability insurance of £10,000,000 for each horse that they own and anything less is not sufficient. You will also need public liability for the yard. If you have liveries then the local authority may rate you.

 

[charmaine]

My advice from one who has done livery in the past is forget it. You will never make any money from it on the kind of scale you are talking about and unless you are very lucky some liveries can be an absolute nightmare in my experience.

 

[flyingfeet]

In Gloucestershire under the CDC you are allowed up to 3 liveries on agricultural land before you become rated.

Public liability is a must; even if they do something stupid like slip over - you are responsible. Unless you have no assets and wouldn't mind being bankrupted, I would definitely get PL insurance.

However I also agree with the post - we have the odd livery and most are a pain in the a@se and you will be unlikely to make any money.

 

[miller]

South Holland District Council rate it on 1 paying livery - looks like it's up to each area to decide!

 

[filly190]

The previous posts have given you some very good advice, and you also had this kind of advise on your older post.

If its a more to do with company and a helping hand, I would be inclined to invite a friend along.

I have had liveries (D.I.Y) and each person and horse presented a very different set of problems.

The warnings you are receiving are very real. Not until you have your own land and worked hard to achieve that goal, will you realise how very precious it is.

Liveries are a steep learning curve, however many people do it successfully and experience little problems. My advise would be, get clued up, listen to these people giving you advise, they all have had their fingers burnt, me included.

No one wishes that for you, so dont think we are having a downer on you, its said to protect and prevent what can/does happen.

 

[dieseldog]

Never mind someone slipping over, if a drunk driver drives his car thru your fence and the horses escape and knock someone over you are liable as you own the fence. Or, 1 of your liveries decides to lead their horse down the road in a headcollar and it escapes and causes damage you are liable not the livery - both of these are actual rulings from cases that have gone to court.

On a personal note we had a livery whose horse had sweetitch and whilst rubbing itself cut its leg, she had a case against us and we had to pay out, however the insurance didn't cover it as there is the £1k excess. We kicked all the liveries out after that.

 

[ihatework]

I'm the other way around, I keep my 2 horses at a private house/stables, it is only my 2 and the owners 1 kept there.

Insurance/Business rates aside don't do this if your main priority is for the money, as as one paying livery won't stretch very far. bear in mind the additional storage space you will need, the more grazing will be 'trashed', possibility of damage etc. and if this is your private house too the possible invasion of privacy.

However saying that it can work very well if you get the right person, I know the owner of the place I share with enjoys the company and the extra pair of hands, we share duties and generally look out for each others horses as if they were our own. If I am late from work she feeds mine and vice versa. we share farrier and vets call outs and handling and are friends too.

But I make a point of never going in her house unless invited, always clearing up after my 2 horses and asking before moving things around etc.

 

[Llwyncwn]

Dont let us all scare you off hun, these are events that have and can happen. Its up to you to take the risk. There are also some very lovely people out there, its just the odd bad apple which makes diy'ers look so bad. Insurance is a legal nightmare. As long as you have yourself properly covered.