That_midgit_equestrian
Well-Known Member
So My horse puts her head down and pushes into an outline but can’t keep it I think it’s to do with her top line anyone know ways to build up top line?
Offering outline
- Thread starter That_midgit_equestrian
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ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Is this the horse you share with some other people, who you were asking a little while ago whether to put a stronger bit in?
You really need to ask this question of an instructor who can see what you and the horse are doing, do you have one?
.
You really need to ask this question of an instructor who can see what you and the horse are doing, do you have one?
.
That_midgit_equestrian
Well-Known Member
Look I’ve had a lot of ups and downs with this horse and I’d rather you didn’t judge the situation on my previous posts, currently I can’t have an instructor for some reasons
Jenko109
Well-Known Member
How is what YCBM posted in anyway judgemental?? Previous posts are pretty relevant...
That_midgit_equestrian
Well-Known Member
I never said it was judgemental bloody hell to be honest I’ve always posted quite irrelevant things on here as I find help elsewhere eg my instructor this is my last resource sometimes it’s just a passing thought and another Persons opinion
sbloom
Well-Known Member
I know it's tough when people give answers you don't want to hear, but we don't remotely have enough information to help. Sometimes questions reveal more in what they don't say than what they do. We know you're a young rider, and we've ALL been in the position where we thought we were pretty much on the case with something, just needed, as you're asking for, a couple of pointers. Except so often much more understanding and help is needed.
The horse's outline is a result of correct work and never a goal in itself, having the head down may even be a fault, and unless the horse is working correctly through its body then the correct place for the head may well be higher than you expect, and with the nose more forwards.
I would join something like Equitopia online and start watching some videos, they have some great stuff on how horses should move, and have two webinars on "top line syndrome".
I don't think lack of topline as such should be your focus - however if she does have topline syndrome, and many do (way more than most owners realise) then some work to correct that would be a good idea but it's best done in hand or by a very experienced rider. It's easier for a horse to learn how to move better when not carrying a rider.
Meanwhile don't get s**tty with people, there's almost always a good reason they come back with something other than - "oh sure, do a, b, c".
The horse's outline is a result of correct work and never a goal in itself, having the head down may even be a fault, and unless the horse is working correctly through its body then the correct place for the head may well be higher than you expect, and with the nose more forwards.
I would join something like Equitopia online and start watching some videos, they have some great stuff on how horses should move, and have two webinars on "top line syndrome".
I don't think lack of topline as such should be your focus - however if she does have topline syndrome, and many do (way more than most owners realise) then some work to correct that would be a good idea but it's best done in hand or by a very experienced rider. It's easier for a horse to learn how to move better when not carrying a rider.
Meanwhile don't get s**tty with people, there's almost always a good reason they come back with something other than - "oh sure, do a, b, c".
View
Well-Known Member
But none of us here can see the whole picture e.g. how she moves, carries herself, conformation, straightness, suppleness, stiffness, asymmetry etc.
Your instructor is the person best placed to advise you.
Your instructor is the person best placed to advise you.
janietee_5
Well-Known Member
Our physio told us to do 30 reverse steps per day to build up top line, and it’s worked wonders for our 21 year old tb who has been out of work for a few years and has KS. He looks amazing and feels so,much stronger. But it does have to be done every day to have a good effect.
That_midgit_equestrian
Well-Known Member
Thanks for your advice she has been out of work for a few years before me getting her she’s changed now as she was quite pent up but now she’s able to be ridden by 10 year olds (she’s quite trustworthy) I will go and join that site now, the reaosn that am outline is my goal is I have previously done showing with my previous pony and would like to carry it on with her, here’s a link to my YouTube it’s got quite a few clips with her in she’s the tricolour one that looks a bit piebald https://youtube.com/channel/UC6CA7Kr-_mSCkZTXq5VItNg abs I’m aware there’s a lot of work that needs doing x
That_midgit_equestrian
Well-Known Member
I will definitely try that thank you I lunge her quite a bit anyway
That_midgit_equestrian
Well-Known Member
Hers a link to my YouTube https://youtube.com/channel/UC6CA7Kr-_mSCkZTXq5VItNg she’s the finer piebald the chunky flaxen chestnut is my previous x
twobearsarthur
Well-Known Member
If she were mine and having watched those videos. My first thought is she doesn’t look particularly happy in her mouth. Whether that be dental or the bit. She seems to be setting her neck and jaw and crossing her jaw. Obviously those are only a few seconds of clips and physical issues can sometimes be transferred for example a bad back affecting the neck etc. But that might be something you want to look into as a starting point.
I know you say you can’t have an instructor at the moment. But do you know a professional or someone with a lot of experience who could help? A fresh pair of eyes? Sometimes all of us need the obvious pointing out to us.
I know you say you can’t have an instructor at the moment. But do you know a professional or someone with a lot of experience who could help? A fresh pair of eyes? Sometimes all of us need the obvious pointing out to us.
That_midgit_equestrian
Well-Known Member
She’s had some previous problems with her back due to another horse mounting her at previous farm she has the physio out every 6 months and there’s nothing wrong it’s to do with muscle memory like her being scared it will hurt even if she’s ok so In that way she’s fine and if anything’s bothering her she’s be there first one to tell u ?
twobearsarthur
Well-Known Member
TBH I think she’s telling you she isn’t happy in her mouth. I could be wrong. I often am. But as a fellow show rider I have to say please don’t get hung up on the “outline” many many years ago before the internet was even invented. I’ll freely admit, I too had that outline in my head all the time. It resulted in what I now call sponge fingers (because I ended up looking like I was wringing a sponge out) and shanks on weymouths that now make me cringe. I lived and learnt, a horse that’s comfortable, correctly working from behind and through its body it will naturally and consistently carry itself the way you’re looking for.
sbloom
Well-Known Member
I think she's probably a typical unbalanced and on the forehand cob. I would work on yourself, especially as you it looks like you ride different horses periodically. Like all of us you're a bit crooked, and all horses find a crooked rider harder to carry, it means we're not central over their spine and even contributes to bouncing hands, which is part of the reason she's not settled in her mouth.
Learning to become a really good rider takes time, persistence, bein quite brave to face your own failings (horses are a great mirror!) and often having to put the time in off the horse. We end up pretty humble after all of this!
Have a look at Rider Reboot on Facebook, he has some free resources, the better you are, stronger, straighter, the easier you'll make everything. If you have any spare cash at all then maybe a session or three on a mechanical horse too. I presume you can't really have a biomechanics lesson, ie with another trainer, on her? Maybe ask your trainer if they can help you more with your position, helping you get straighter etc.
Learning to become a really good rider takes time, persistence, bein quite brave to face your own failings (horses are a great mirror!) and often having to put the time in off the horse. We end up pretty humble after all of this!
Have a look at Rider Reboot on Facebook, he has some free resources, the better you are, stronger, straighter, the easier you'll make everything. If you have any spare cash at all then maybe a session or three on a mechanical horse too. I presume you can't really have a biomechanics lesson, ie with another trainer, on her? Maybe ask your trainer if they can help you more with your position, helping you get straighter etc.
stangs
Well-Known Member
(The funny thing about the nervous system is that you can have 'no' pain, but still feel it - especially if it was previously over a long period of time, and she grew used to accustoming riding with discomfort with no say in the matter. So, yes, she could still be in pain.)
Trotwork looks promising imo. She's not working properly over the back from what I can see, but she's softening more so that's something. I'd be looking at transitions, poles, bending, the usual suspects. Long and low too. But mostly focusing on maintaining rhythm, she seems to be somewhat behind the leg - there's no chance for her to properly work over her back if she's not moving forwards and rhythmically.
The canter work's a bit tricker. She's bracing against something, for sure, whether that be fear of pain in the back or a bit issue. You look a little unbalanced riding it, possibly because of how she's moving, but, regardless, you can't expect her to work over her back if you're not balanced.
Ultimately, the first steps of the training scales are rhythm, balance, and relaxation. Outlines that look pretty come later. Focus on allowing her to move freely and enjoy her work, with your seat not interfering with her movement. You'll be surprised to see how easily the rest starts coming into place.
Trotwork looks promising imo. She's not working properly over the back from what I can see, but she's softening more so that's something. I'd be looking at transitions, poles, bending, the usual suspects. Long and low too. But mostly focusing on maintaining rhythm, she seems to be somewhat behind the leg - there's no chance for her to properly work over her back if she's not moving forwards and rhythmically.
The canter work's a bit tricker. She's bracing against something, for sure, whether that be fear of pain in the back or a bit issue. You look a little unbalanced riding it, possibly because of how she's moving, but, regardless, you can't expect her to work over her back if you're not balanced.
Ultimately, the first steps of the training scales are rhythm, balance, and relaxation. Outlines that look pretty come later. Focus on allowing her to move freely and enjoy her work, with your seat not interfering with her movement. You'll be surprised to see how easily the rest starts coming into place.
That_midgit_equestrian
Well-Known Member
I’ve been Manley focusing on her at the minute the reaosn there’s been a lot of horses because for a bit I was in between ponies, she’s nothing like what I had before and I’m trying to adjust to her, previously I’ve had a chunky yet slim at the waist 22 year old 13.3 hafflinger gelding now I’m on a slim 15hh Irish sports horse who’s 11, agreed i have been quite unbalanced due to relying on knowledge of the previous horse and what he would do or the cushion of his mane and neck it’s like re teaching your self I guess and it will take time
That_midgit_equestrian
Well-Known Member
I’ve started to ride her with quite a loose rein which really helps her and praise her if she stretches. For the canter I think thag it could possible be me because she has ran off with me out hacking before and it gave me a bit of a scare ( I know it happens to everyone at some point but with my previous absolute saint he is he woulf never run off or owt) My body protector keeps getting caught on the back of the saddle which is a bit annoying I tend to tense up a bit in the canter which I’m trying to work on by just going with it
sbloom
Well-Known Member
I’ve been Manley focusing on her at the minute the reaosn there’s been a lot of horses because for a bit I was in between ponies, she’s nothing like what I had before and I’m trying to adjust to her, previously I’ve had a chunky yet slim at the waist 22 year old 13.3 hafflinger gelding now I’m on a slim 15hh Irish sports horse who’s 11, agreed i have been quite unbalanced due to relying on knowledge of the previous horse and what he would do or the cushion of his mane and neck it’s like re teaching your self I guess and it will take time
The more you improve your strength, straightness and understanding on and off the horse the easier you'll be able to adapt to different horses. Once you have the basics and the tone/muscle memory you'll find it so much easier swapping. I would work much more on walk and trot for now, you both hurtling round trying to keep control isn't going to benefit either of you. Perhaps you could just canter on hacks? If you have to canter in the school I would aim to canter for 2-3 strides, keeping that trot "feel" in your body so you can ask for trot almost immediately you get canter, then you don't both get into that onward bound feel where she's on her forehand and you're tense and pulling. Chat to your trainer about it.
It's unfortunate the saddle isn't quite suiting you (I'm a saddle fitter), a challenge with shorter backed horses (smaller seats on the saddles) and high cantles too. Is there a lower section you could zip off?
That_midgit_equestrian
Well-Known Member
Thank you I will try not to and we will get her mouth checked soon xx
Once upon a hafflinger
New User
We have managed to seek some professional advice and it’s due to her being very very tense we’re working on unglueing her this is a step closer to achieving our goals in trying to attach a picture but it says it’s to big
That_midgit_equestrian
Well-Known Member
What do you mean we?
[153312]
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try photo resizer app if you're on mobile
Once upon a hafflinger
New User
Oh sorry I meant that I personally have seeked professional help and your situation is quite similar to mine and I thought it might be helpful you have to like swing your hips with the horse
That_midgit_equestrian
Well-Known Member
Thank you I will try this
[153312]
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are you two the same person under separate accounts?
That_midgit_equestrian
Well-Known Member
Nope I was bloody done with horse and hound till this popped up in my emails I don’t know who they are I’ve tried to make a new account before and it wouldn’t let me
Lois Lame
Well-Known Member
Yes. I'm very confused.
ETA: Sorry, was responding to Snail.
ETA: Sorry, was responding to Snail.
Lois Lame
Well-Known Member
But I'm getting even more confused now.
[153312]
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you can only have one account registered per email.
Also, FWIW, don't take this the wrong way, but swearing doesn't actually make you seen older. No one has an issue with young users on here, and people are more than willing to help you, but two-facedness (literally and metaphorically) isn't really appreciated if/when you don't get the answers you want first time round.