Ok 5 months BareFoot *pics for BF peeps*

Roasted Chestnuts

Roasted Chestnuts

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Well freshly trimmed tootsies :) Opinions based on pics.

Farrier thinks they are work in progress and we have chatted about the change in the shape of his feet. I was worried about the drastic shape changes that have happened but he has told me that he would be fine and sound and I was just used to him being trimmed for a shoe and that my previous farrier must have been treating his deviations, I knew he had one but all four feet are changing shape :confused:

Fronts
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Hinds

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Now I am learning this, and completely prepared to be very wrong indeed. I always look at these pictures and have a guess at what people will say and then see if I am right or not. So here no one has said anything so I am going to be brave and put my thoughts out there and if I am wrong I am wrong and we can all learn from it. Disclaimer made. There.

That pair of front feet remind me of my pony's front feet when she was in shoes which is to say he looks slightly as though he is standing on his toes and has underrun heels. When you showed the picture of his soles his frogs looked quite contracted which is perhaps the reason why - you want his frogs to spread out as he takes more weight back onto his heel so that his heel can develop and get wider and stronger. This will happen gradually the more times he puts his foot down comfortably. You said he is sound and his feet are changing so it sounds like things are moving in the right direction for you :)
 
Thanks or your comments.

Heels too long?? I didnt know you could trim their heels? I thought those were the fleshy bits at the back, I know the heel angles are set quite far back but I was under the impression that these would lower by themselves with time :)

Papa frita thanks I was wondering about the differences as one side of his hoof is completely different from the other on both feet, Im wondering if this is him balancing for himself what the farrier was balancing with the shoes....

Again Im learning as I go along as well so erfectly prepared to eat my words as well, all of the above are asked as genuine questions :)
 
Xmas Beastie said:
Thanks or your comments.

Heels too long?? I didnt know you could trim their heels? I thought those were the fleshy bits at the back, I know the heel angles are set quite far back but I was under the impression that these would lower by themselves with time :)

Papa frita thanks I was wondering about the differences as one side of his hoof is completely different from the other on both feet, Im wondering if this is him balancing for himself what the farrier was balancing with the shoes....

Again Im learning as I go along as well so erfectly prepared to eat my words as well, all of the above are asked as genuine questions :)
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As I said earlier, I'm no expert BUT it is my understanding that the heels should be trimmed/rasped so that the foot lands flat on the floor. Basically, what you want is for the sole to be at 90degrees to the cannon bone regardless of whether or not the actual wall is longer on one side or the other... if that makes any sense. Now, it looks to me that in one pic the heel is much longer on one side than the other. HOWEVER, as the angle is of the sole of the foot, rather than a few of the cannon bone, pastern and heel, I don't know if this is the correct balance for YOUR horse. I've got some photos I took of a very VERY good farrier trimming. I'd be happy to show you, but as it is not me in the photos I'm not going to put them on HHO. Are you on Facebook? If you PM me, I'll add you to friends.
ALSO it does seem that the feet look a bit 'tall' and heels underrun BUT, it is also my understanding that changes to the feet are best made gradually and I don't know what they looked like before.
 
5 months already! That gone quick! The most important thing is that he is sound but I am a little concerned that the heels are still contracted after all this time. Is the farrier trimming his heel (part of the hoof wall still, not the frog or bulb) the actual horn. I can't see the coronet band but guessing the angle is pretty flat which is not what I would expect from a bf horse after 5 months.

All I can think is that the farrier has been trimming just tatty hoof wall at the toe and not trimming the wall on the sole plane at all. They are quite unbalanced laterally too and after this time you would expect them to be level. Sorry OP but I would not be happy with your farriers trim! The frogs are not developing evenly at all! They look twisted up on one side.

I don't know how the horse moves so these are pure observations from the photos you have posted but those feet look contracted still and very long for a barefoot horse. Infact the white line at the toe are stretching away due to stress put on them from the heels being too high.

Sorry again OP, I would be getting someone else to do those feet. Pure opinion. However, you have a sound horse and that is something... At the moment but he needs help wearing his growing hooves down as the work doesn't seem to be doing it for him... :)
 
PapaFrita said:
As I said earlier, I'm no expert BUT it is my understanding that the heels should be trimmed/rasped so that the foot lands flat on the floor. Basically, what you want is for the sole to be at 90degrees to the cannon bone regardless of whether or not the actual wall is longer on one side or the other... if that makes any sense. Now, it looks to me that in one pic the heel is much longer on one side than the other. HOWEVER, as the angle is of the sole of the foot, rather than a few of the cannon bone, pastern and heel, I don't know if this is the correct balance for YOUR horse. I've got some photos I took of a very VERY good farrier trimming. I'd be happy to show you, but as it is not me in the photos I'm not going to put them on HHO. Are you on Facebook? If you PM me, I'll add you to friends.
ALSO it does seem that the feet look a bit 'tall' and heels underrun BUT, it is also my understanding that changes to the feet are best made gradually and I don't know what they looked like before.
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Sorry PF I actually didnt see this :o

Ill PM you, Im not an expert by any sense of the imagination. hapy for any info and all questions are genuine :)

Farrier rasps walls and he took some nippers to the bottom of the hoof and took off some then rasped it flate before taking the rasp around the edges to roll the hoof :)

I asked him about the imbalance and the fact that even the frogs are squint, he hasnt touched the heels as far as I noticed nor the frogs as he agreed that the frogs need to not be trimmed but to develope :)
 
tallyhohoho! said:
5 months already! That gone quick! The most important thing is that he is sound but I am a little concerned that the heels are still contracted after all this time. Is the farrier trimming his heel (part of the hoof wall still, not the frog or bulb) the actual horn. I can't see the coronet band but guessing the angle is pretty flat which is not what I would expect from a bf horse after 5 months.

All I can think is that the farrier has been trimming just tatty hoof wall at the toe and not trimming the wall on the sole plane at all. They are quite unbalanced laterally too and after this time you would expect them to be level. Sorry OP but I would not be happy with your farriers trim! The frogs are not developing evenly at all! They look twisted up on one side.

I don't know how the horse moves so these are pure observations from the photos you have posted but those feet look contracted still and very long for a barefoot horse. Infact the white line at the toe are stretching away due to stress put on them from the heels being too high.

Sorry again OP, I would be getting someone else to do those feet. Pure opinion. However, you have a sound horse and that is something... At the moment but he needs help wearing his growing hooves down as the work doesn't seem to be doing it for him... :)
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It is an iceblock up here at the minute :o Im hoping to get him out more once I can actually get him out the stable, hopefully it will be all gone in the next day or so as I cant get riding either of them :rolleyes:

Yesterday the farrier took the nippers to the bottem and took off some length, then rasped the bottom, didnt touch the frogs (we are in agreement NOT to do that ) then took the rasp around the wall and rolled them for me.

He commented on the asymetry of his frog and his feet and horse has had deviations that previous farrier shod him for, being honest I didnt think they were this bad :o farrier commented that there was very little on the outside wall of both of his hooves and im thinking hes overloading that side? causing the inside to bulge out? Should farrier be correcting that? Or is he growing them that way because he need it?

He is feeling his feet on the rutted ground but on grass and tarmac and forest paths he seems fine or was the last time I rode :)
 
FfionWinnie said:
How much work is he doing?
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he was being hacked out twice a week but with weather up here has been horrid and is at the moment making even walking on a flat surface nearly impossible he hasnt been ridden for nearly two weeks :o

Should I up it to three times a week? All we do is hack, I have no school and hes happy hacking :)
 
Xmas Beastie said:
It is an iceblock up here at the minute :o Im hoping to get him out more once I can actually get him out the stable, hopefully it will be all gone in the next day or so as I cant get riding either of them :rolleyes:

Yesterday the farrier took the nippers to the bottem and took off some length, then rasped the bottom, didnt touch the frogs (we are in agreement NOT to do that ) then took the rasp around the wall and rolled them for me.

He commented on the asymetry of his frog and his feet and horse has had deviations that previous farrier shod him for, being honest I didnt think they were this bad :o farrier commented that there was very little on the outside wall of both of his hooves and im thinking hes overloading that side? causing the inside to bulge out? Should farrier be correcting that? Or is he growing them that way because he need it?

He is feeling his feet on the rutted ground but on grass and tarmac and forest paths he seems fine or was the last time I rode :)
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Well there is that... what he "needs", you are right. But to leave the heels purposely unlevel is deifnitely not helping.

If you imagine, he is walking with his fetlocks leaning inwards! Agree that frogs should be left but disagree that heels should be left all wonky. Defeats the object.

I wouldn't be taking much off, still respect the sole plane near the heel buttress but the leg is unbalanced and that is not a good thing. You can see the how the foot twists.

Would you mind taking a photo from the back of the foot, level with the ground? I think what you will see is one side of the same foot developed nicely and the other side, quite thin still. Inside, the pedal bone will also be wonky and not level with the ground.
 
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tallyhohoho! said:
Well there is that... what he "needs", you are right. But to leave the heels purposely unlevel is deifnitely not helping.

If you imagine, he is walking with his fetlocks leaning inwards! Agree that frogs should be left but disagree that heels should be left all wonky. Defeats the object.

I wouldn't be taking much off, still respect the sole plane near the heel buttress but the leg is unbalanced and that is not a good thing. You can see the how the foot twists.

Would you mind taking a photo from the back of the foot, level with the ground? I think what you will see is one side of the same foot developed nicely and the other side, quite thin still. Inside the pedal bone will also be wonky and not level with the ground.
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Ok understand that, Ill take fresh pics tomorrow and are you meaning from behind with his foot on the ground or from behind with me holding the foot up?

He will be done again in four weeks so I can ask farrier to take more heel off them and level them up if you can show me on the pics what Im looking for :)
 
Xmas Beastie said:
Ok understand that, Ill take fresh pics tomorrow and are you meaning from behind with his foot on the ground or from behind with me holding the foot up?

He will be done again in four weeks so I can ask farrier to take more heel off them and level them up if you can show me on the pics what Im looking for :)
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From behind with foot level on the ground. Then we can see how unlevel it is when he is putting his foot down if you see what I mean :)

It might not be good to take a lot of heel off all at once, he may be sensitive on his frog if he's not used to the contact so go a bit at a time. Farrier should be able to go down as far as the sole plane (level with the sole - and he may be happy only to go down to this level as he too may be concerned about sensitivity) and if it means the frog is still off the ground, trim more next time and after a few trims, I find that the heel and frog are at the same level as each other when I put the flat side of my rasp on them.

What I have found, is that the sole plane (once I have scraped off the dead sole) is level with the frog anyway. It's the hoof that has grown beyond that needs rasping. Not had a problem with the foot being sensitive as long as I have respected this level and not gone beyond.

I almost feel as if the farrier is "creating" a hoof wall "shoe" for this horse rather than trimming to balance the foot. Even though he isn't trimming the frog, he's not allowing it to "work". Hope that made sense... :D

Keep looking at photos of hard working barefoot horses at Rockley, Barefoot South blog to name but a coupe and you will see what I mean. The more you look and compare, the more you get a feel for what a level hoof looks like.
 
So as a newby myself (adds up.. 8 months in ;) ) my observations are.

The heels don’t really seem to have come back and are long/underun/unbalanced. Which makes me think that he is possibly not engaging his frogs which is why the central sulcus is still so deep and the frogs haven’t really unfolded so to speak. I was just looking at Frank’s today and thinking how smooth the sulcus has become, we still want his heels in front to come back a little further and are trialling a slight bevel on the back of the heels to encourage him to land slightly further back. Farrier also seems to be rasping up the hoof wall but not actually adding a roll in front?

Are his frogs actually on the ground from behind? on his hind feet it looks like the middle of the frog is on the floor but not the back?
 
Mine has the wonkeyest feet going but his hairline is straight so that indicates everything is aligned straight inside. Take a picture of the back of his feet with his feet on a flat surface.
 
In my extremely limited and of no interest to anyone probably, experience, neither of mine need any trimming and they both have improved their feet themselves. Both were flat footed and overly long, one had flares. Road work has trimmed them beautifully and improving all the time. They are hacked out most days although recently weather has made them field bound as the roads are treacherous. I'd do much more if you can.
 
FfionWinnie said:
In my extremely limited and of no interest to anyone probably, experience, neither of mine need any trimming and they both have improved their feet themselves. Both were flat footed and overly long, one had flares. Road work has trimmed them beautifully and improving all the time. They are hacked out most days although recently weather has made them field bound as the roads are treacherous. I'd do much more if you can.
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One mare who went bf 6 months ago has done this. Haven't touched the sole plane. The heels beefed up and the walls wore down and are level with the frog.

Beastie's horse probably needs trimming a bit zealously as growth is seriously outgrowing the wear!
 
Ok ill get them tomorrow as the weather has to be half decent and I REALY want to get out if I can, also have more leccy fencing and wooden posts to set up so want that done as well :)

Hes being trimmed so regularly so that we can keep an eye on him and also so we could do things gradual (farriers idea)

Ill try and up the roadwork, I do have a set of hoof boots that could go on his fronts if hes fine on tarmac I havent been bothering with them and Im a bit aprehansive about putting them on as its so icey right now and I think he has more grip (albiet footy on sharp, rutted ground) without than with :o
 
tallyhohoho! said:
One mare who went bf 6 months ago has done this. Haven't touched the sole plane. The heels beefed up and the walls wore down and are level with the frog.

Beastie's horse probably needs trimming a bit zealously as growth is seriously outgrowing the wear!
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Would upping the road work not do the same thing?

Mine looked pretty bad but it only took a month to see a massive improvement. Haven't needed any trimming at all.

Hoof boots no use on ice I'd say. My mare slipped a lot with them on, her field mate with no boots, didn't slip once.
 
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