Ok, what now??

[cbmcts]

Help, thoughts and any ideas please.

I have a 10/11 year old rescue JRT who I got just over 2 years ago - I collected him the same day he came into rescue (the rescue knew I was looking for another dog at the time) We were told that he had been in the same home all his life, was good with other dogs, clean and quiet in the house. He was given up because his owner (an older man I believe) had finally got social housing after spending a couple of years sofa surfing and the winter of 2010/11 in a caravan but the new flat didn't allow dogs. He's not good with dogs or quiet but he is lovely with people and a fantastic house dog - absolutely spotless indoors.

At the time he arrived I had just lost a JRT bitch very suddenly but I still had my ancient old JRT bitch and my 6 yo Rottie. I was concious that the old girl only had limited time left at 20 yo and the rottie had never been on his own so was just starting to put out feelers for a potential companion for him when the old girl would have to go. He met both of mine, tried to hump the oldie who told him in no uncertain terms that was a BAAAAD idea (she was the type of dog that was always in charge of other dogs but who very rarely had to make a big deal of it IYSWIM) and the rottie was a saint with little dogs no matter how horrible so just ignored his snappiness. So all was (fairly) peaceful at home although I had to separate him at food times as he would harass the big dog constantly for his food, same with toys. Again, the rottie was always very tolerant with him and just ignored him or walked away. Outside however, was always a completely different matter - he screams and lunges whenever he sees another dog, he will bite if he can get to them and all recall goes out the window. Luckily he only weighs 6 kgs so is at least controllable! Needless to say that he only goes off lead now if he's wearing his baskerville muzzle with the strap between the eyes so he can't remove it. While wearing it he just mopes along and will ignore other dogs.

I did lose the old girl in October 11 a month after her 21st birthday and funnily enough the JRT was the one who missed her. Him and the rottie lived very happily together, played well and got on for another year until I very unexpectedly lost the rottie to bone cancer in October 12.

Some time later I thought about getting another dog, preferably another big dog for 2 reasons - I work fulltime and really don't like leaving a single dog at home and the other is selfish, I wanted another rottie/rottie cross as they are a breed I love and have had for many, many years. I knew that integrating another dog would be difficult but not HOW difficult...

I have taken him to dog training to try and improve his DA. TBF, as they insisted (rightly) that he stayed on lead and muzzled that was easy as he behaved but we couldn't move on from there - they wouldn't allow it. I've always let him mix with friend's dogs, that's been a bit more mixed results. 90% of the time he's ok with them after the first aggressive snappy snarly meeting but he does every now and again go for them. A particular trigger seems to be if anyone 'gives out' to another dog - in he goes with his teeth (I noticed that with the rottie too) but can be stopped with a verbal command. If another dog fights back, within seconds he's on his back screaming in fear but he'll still spend the rest of the time with that dog trying to sneak in a bite from behind.

I had another rescue rottie on trial a while ago. With hindsight, it probably wasn't the best match as it was another male 11 months old but this dog has tested absolutely fine with quite a few other dogs as he's been in rescue for a few months. A lovely dog, very energetic, very, very bright and begging for some training and I fell in love with him overnight! There were a few scraps the first day and I pretty much left them to sort themselves out. However, JRT just kept on going for the rottie - it was relentless, everytime I turned my back and unsurprisingly the rott was starting to retaliate. There was no way I could leave them unsupervised while I worked. Neither was crating the terrier (the rott didn't crate, that was one of the reasons he was handed to rescue) as I'm out too long at work. My house also doesn't make it easy to safely keep them apart while I'm out either. So the rott had to go back

We've been back to training, one to one this time and using a stooge dog which has been more successful but this week while walking we've had 5 different dogs come bounding up and it has sent him right back to where we started. He bit and got bitten by one on Friday, quite a nasty bite and he's back to being a screaming banshee whenever he sees another dog. He caused havoc at the vets on Friday! Today he also tried to really have a go at a bitch he knows well belonging to a friend and they used to get well...

So what next?

Do I give up the idea of another dog especially a big one?
Continue with the one to one? Even though the trainer is very wishy washy IMO and lives by clicker training?
Find another trainer - anybody got any recommendations for South Essex?

At this point I'm tempted to give up and get a cat as his friend (he loooves cats )but next doors cat will probably kill it - Simon thinks, no knows he owns the entire road!

I do love this little dog dearly but he's been more hassle than any other dog I've had in 30+ years - I've obviously been very lucky that any problems they've had have been solvable with a bit of time and some work, none of them have been so frustrating!

All ideas and advice gratefully received with a creme egg to all!

 

[AmyMay]

Sounds like your a one dog family for the time being.

 

[Luci07]

Is he better with bitches? My middle dog isn't great with other boys, much prefers the ladies. He doesn't do anything but in a yard full of dogs, his preference is always the ladies and he puts up with the boys. When I was looking for another dog to live with my first bitch, the rescue were quite adamant that I should have a dog of a different sex so Blaze duly arrived. I actually do now have 3 but was lucky in that I had a very very long time to really ensure Honey would integrate with my other 2.

 

[cbmcts]

Sounds like your a one dog family for the time being.

It's looking like that, isn't it?

Is he better with bitches? My middle dog isn't great with other boys, much prefers the ladies. He doesn't do anything but in a yard full of dogs, his preference is always the ladies and he puts up with the boys. When I was looking for another dog to live with my first bitch, the rescue were quite adamant that I should have a dog of a different sex so Blaze duly arrived. I actually do now have 3 but was lucky in that I had a very very long time to really ensure Honey would integrate with my other 2.

With some bitches, he is - the very calm, confident types that rule the roost without having to make a fuss about it. He'll still try and have a chunk out of them on the sly though.

He really is a little s0d, I'm quite used to scrappy terriers (though mine were never allowed to be like it) but it's the harassing and keeping a row going that's the real problem!

 

[CorvusCorax]

I'm sorry if this offends anyone but there are some dogs you can't click better

JRTs can take a fair bit of pressure but at his age, with his experiences and with some JRT genetics, the behaviour will be so ingrained I would just try to manage it as best you can and not force him into contact with other dogs, some dogs are like people, antisocial and there is no point in putting him under pressure/stress in order to achieve some sort of panacea where he will gambol about the fields happily with all his doggy friends.
He is an old man and will likely not improve as his senses start to leave him, and I would just give him as comfortable a retirement home as possible.

 

[cbmcts]

I'm sorry if this offends anyone but there are some dogs you can't click better

JRTs can take a fair bit of pressure but at his age, with his experiences and with some JRT genetics, the behaviour will be so ingrained I would just try to manage it as best you can and not force him into contact with other dogs, some dogs are like people, antisocial and there is no point in putting him under pressure/stress in order to achieve some sort of panacea where he will gambol about the fields happily with all his doggy friends.
He is an old man and will likely not improve as his senses start to leave him, and I would just give him as comfortable a retirement home as possible.

I have to say that this trainer hasn't managed to convert me to clicker training - I can see when it would have a use but not really in this situation. She's a very nice lady but a bit too nice sometimes IYKWIM.

I take your point about age etc and will probably give up on another dog for now *cbmcts throws herself on the floor wailing but I waaaannnnttt one* and will settle for working towards not every walk being a potential trip to the vets. You'd think that a dog who gets hammered every time he starts a fight would learn NOT to fight, wouldn't you?

 

[CorvusCorax]

It's very useful for lots and lots of dogs, not everyone in my club may not use compulsion but we all a marker of some sort, either a clicker or a tut or I just use the word 'good' now (his foundation was clicker training) but for a dog of that age with those sorts of issues, it will take a lot of money and lessons and maybe not the outcome you're looking for.
Some dogs need to learn how to learn also and you may have missed the boat in that regard, with his age, previous experiences etc.

To your last point...no...quite the opposite...he will probably associate other dogs with getting grief, try to get in to defend himself first...get a hammering....and round and round the merry-go-round will go. Even if he gets doofed by a big dog, that's still a negative experience for him and he will try and protect and defend himself the next time...and get doofed again.

 

[cbmcts]

Oh I do know that the aggression is a self fulfilling prophecy CC

The shame is that when he does relax around another dog, he seems to really enjoy himself and plays happily and well!

Apart from my own selfish desire to have another 'big' dog (I miss the goofiness, sense of humour and the trainability of a Rott) I do feel really guilty that he spends so much time home alone. Rightly or wrongly I've always accepted that since I have to work to pay the bills that my dogs would always have to accept being left at home while I did. My side of the bargain was that they would have pals to keep them company...with this one, even doggy day care isn't an option

Never mind, he might be a sod but since he's my little sod we'll just have to work round him...

BTW, my OH is reading these replies and trying, unsuccessfully I might add to hide his grin of sheer joy. He'd prefer no dogs really

 

[DabDab]

I had a friend who had a really similar problem with her 5yo westie (adopted from a fiend of a friend)- just persistently picking fights without any provocation. She never ended up with a dog that was entirely comfortable in company, but the transformation she managed to get was amazing. All she did was go right back to basics, retraining everything as if the dog was a puppy, and she controlled EVERYTHING. She fed the dog at the same time every day, walked her at the same time every day (for the same amount of time around the same route), and she had a lot of micro routines for carrying out day-to-day activities. Then she started walking her westie with a friend and their dog, making sure to keep all the routines. After about a year it was a different dog, and now the westie is part of a three dog household. However, my friend worked from home so had the flexibility to put in what must have been a huge amount of work, though she does now have a westie with impeccable manners.

Good luck anyway.