Old ponies ... your opinion please

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Scranny_Ann

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I have a 34yo 12.2 welsh x arab who i've had for 18 years.

This week i've had the chiro out to put her pelvis back into place as she was severely out(thinking along the lines of fall in field). Was told to give her a few days and see what happens. Having looked at her last night, i *think* she's slightly uneven again. Chiro said she couldnt say either way whether it would stay in place or would go again. Anyone else have any experience with oldies and pelvis problems, obviously with having been retired for some years she has very little muscle so healing process is longer.

She did state that she didnt seem to be in too much discomfort which was nice to hear but im worried this will be a re-occuring problem. if this is the case being out in the muddy slippery fields over winter isn't going to be an option for her, would just be too much. So i'm worried it may be time to consider pts if she doesn't recover fully. opinions please guys. Sorry for the waffle ...
 
You sound as if you have your head screwed on and will do the right thing by her.

If the old girl is going to be in pain, or in constant risk of injuring herself, pts is a kinder option than watching her struggle during winter.

She's had an exceptionally good innings, and I do agree with that adage "a day/week/month too soon is better than a day too late" a horse doesn't know that today, tomorrow or next Thursday at 10am is the day, as far as I am concerned, it is us that worry "I am doing the right/wrong thing, what will people think?" Horse comes first.
 
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I would ask your 'expert' what she means by 'out' and get a second opinion.

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I agree. For a pelvis to be out and then put back in it would have to be dislocated, hence the horse wouldnt be able to walk. Furthermore a human being isnt strong enough to put a pelvis 'back in place'. Muscle spasm/asymetry may pull slightly leading to uneveness but a pelvis cannot be put out or back in again. You can work on muscles to release knots and spasm, lactic acid, etc, which in turn will even up slight asymmetries.

Do you have any pictures? From the side and behind? It is common for people to think the pelvis is wonky when it is actually a differenc in the muscles over it. being old i would fully expect your pony to have muscle wastage, which may just be asymetrical
 
Thanks guys, to be perfectly honest i'm not sure what she means by 'out', as i'm no expert! My initial thought when it all started was laminitis, as the had the tell tale laminitic stance but soon ruled that out. Was obvious her back end wasn't doing what it should be, almost delayed compared to her front end. When stood still she had a 'swaying' back end (like one too many voddies) Her walking was extremely uneven and almost crab like. All i know is she spent over an hour examining her/massaging etc and in the end she wrapped her left arm round her back end, pushed on her with her right and something seriously 'clunked' on the back end. Her walking immediately improved, but obviously she's not back as she was.

I've spoken to chiro again tonight and she's said to give her the weekend and then call the vet on Monday if there is no change or she's worse, as she's already filled the vet in on the situation. She has assured me she's not in pain, and i agree as after 18 years with this girl i know her inside out!!

I'm just worried *i dont even want to type it* that it may be her time. Dunno what i'd do without her i'd be lost! But rest assured my feelings will always be second best to her welfare. She comes first full stop. I'll never let her suffer, but at the same time i won't write her off without due cause.

I havent got any pics but will get some tomorrow and upload. Maybe a video too of her walking and turning.

Thanks for your help guys

Claire
 
It is really hard when they are so old isnt it? I watched my old chap rolling the other day and thought, he isnt really looking good. He had a rest, flat out between each roll. Then he got himself up. When I turned him back out in his big field he ran off! Quite happy and no stiffness! I am also torn as dont want to PTS too early but dont want to leave it to late either. Mine is 33. I have had him 31 years so he really is part of the furniture!

I would say at this time of year laminitis is very possible so would definitely get it checked out.
 
thanks dozzie. I will speak the vet on Monday and mention it, as she's defo showing signs or cushings, started really last summer (coat gave it away - she fels like a sheep!) and obviously laminitis is a posibility but im 99.9% sure its not (no pulse heat etc or sore)

I just hate the thought of making the wrong decision either way really. I've had her since i was 7!! I've had to make tough decisions with her before, she had a bad bout of colic in 2006 and i called the vet after 3 days of treatment etc to finally pts and when vet got there she got up like the previous 3 days hadn't happened!! makes it all the worse with the what if's and buts this time!!
 
Making a diagnosis on a lame pony, without vet referral sounds so dodgy it's potentially illegal. I would steer well clear of anyone who talks about pelvises being out, or who carries out what sounds like fairly hard manipulation on a frail & unwell pony.

I would get the vet out to find out what's really going on. If it is lami & cushings then the prognosis isn't neccessarily bleak, so long as it is correctly diagnosed and treated promptly.
 
I know you're worried about making the wrong decision either way, but as someone else pointed out to me when I had similar worries a couple of weeks ago - she won't be looking down on you thinking "damn, I could have had another 6 months grazing". I have 2 oldies who have given me cause for serious thought over the last 3 months - one with colic was at the "if there's no improvement by 2 that's it" stage, so I really feel for you. (He must have heard as he got up & demanded mints as if nothing had been wrong at all 30 mins later!)
 
There is no such thing as a horse's pelvis being "out", or dislocated, and then calmly being "popped back in" by a bit of friendly massage. It takes a good dose of morphine and a hefty A&E orthopaedic consultant to reduce a human patient's dislocated hip. And that's with the consultant standing on the trolley and HEAVING and twisting on the wayward leg. Can you imagine the forces that would be necessary to relocate a horse's skeleton, without any sedation? Not possible. And as some have said, you should get your vet's ok for any treatment from any alternative practitioners. If they mean the pelvic area was identified as a spot where the horse seemed uncomfortable, then fine. Some deep muscle massage for a deep muscle problem was probably very much appreciated by the horse. Unfortunately, a 34 year old horse will probably be experiencing all the stiffness and mobility problems of a human of about 90+ so it is likely to be helped by a nice massage but will then return as it is a problem associated with 34 years of life rather than anything dramatic.

Sorry but people who give horse owners incomplete or garbled information that the owner then bases very critical decisions on need their backsides kicking
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For Cushing's, at her age and if you feel she's still otherwise well, get her on Pergolide. Shouldn't be a fight with the vet if they agree on the likelihood it's that, and her quality of life is acceptable. It can depress the appetite temporarily, but it was worth it for us as ours lived three more years to 28 and a half. However, it's a big picture and must be fully viewed! Preferably alongside a vet but at least in consultation with.

I think you should look at her long and hard and it will be obvious if she's had enough. You really will know. And I couldn't even get it down on here, so went through it all 'alone'. I guess I just didn't want others saying let her go now. You love her, you know her and she'll tell you when. Then it's up to you.

Get a plan formulated for each scenario and hopefully, you won't need it for ages. Being prepared for all eventualities does help 'on the day'.

Horrible subject but the really good horse owners face up to it bravely, go through with it although every bit of them is fighting against goodbye, then grieve at leisure.

Your mare is lucky she has you.
 
Hi Scranny_Ann
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I think that physio/chiro's perhaps use the term 'out' to losely describe conditions to the average horse owner, what she probably meant was that the mare had a tilted or rotated pelvis which can be caused by lots of different things; a fall, spavin, compensation for discomfort in another area of the body etc.

A fb friend said something very grounding this week (think it was GinaB about Nat's 23yo horse resuming his showing career?) that some people are so quick to write off their horses due to age, arthritis, stiffness. How many of us are a little stiff in the mornings before we get going, I am for sure but Im not ready to be written off just yet. I have horses with hock spavin, it just takes them a little longer to warm up for exercise, they are both 12. My big boy is 7 and has OCD, he can still enjoy life. A recent aquirement is Rossco, awful pelvis, filled legs, sacro-illiac problem. After 5 months of rehab he is now under saddle.

If you and the chiro agree that she's not in pain then why are you worrying at this stage? Take each day as it comes, as she gets older and stiffer it will help to give her anti-inflams (under veterinary advice) which is no different to us taking ibuprofen for aches and pains. Quality rather than quantity of age is the important factor as our neds reach their Autumn years.

Get as much advise as you can, talk to different people, vets, those in the know and then make up your own mind , you know her better than anyone. Hope this helps x
 
OP- i would ge the vet out on monday. I dont like the sound of the clunking.

Good luck, its obvious you love your pony very much.
 
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OP- i would ge the vet out on monday. I dont like the sound of the clunking.

Good luck, its obvious you love your pony very much.

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Thank you teddyt, I most certainly do and by some of the replies you would think i'm the worst person in the world and i've got a cowboy of a chiro!!!! She comes highly recommended and travels the country!!

I'm going to get the vet out on Monday if she's no better, and take it from there.
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fingers crossed for her hey!!
 
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Sorry but people who give horse owners incomplete or garbled information that the owner then bases very critical decisions on need their backsides kicking
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Nothing garbled about the information i have received!!!!

My worries of her being pts are entirely on my own back after seeing her for my own eyes, as its been said before rather a week too early than a day too late ... not through anything i've been told.

The technical name for her current issues i'm unaware of (shoot me down now) as unfortunately im a legal assistant not a chiro/vet!!! I'm half tempted to scan in her treatment record from this week.

Chiro contacted me to say she's been liaising with my vet and they have agreed actions/recommendations by chiro to date are fine, next step being to contact vet on Monday if her back end is still as weak/wonky as it is atm.
 
My old mare - 14.2 TBx - is 36 & has Cushings. She's been on Pergolide for the last 9 months & it has definitely perked her up. She has a HUGE appetite & I feed her twice as much as my 16.1 ISH who's in full work, spread out into 3 meals.

You will know when the time is right. Mine still runs off if I want to catch her for the farrier, has all her teeth & can eat hay, can roll & get back up, kicks the gate for food/attention & I do think she still enjoys being alive.

I've *nearly* PTS twice - the first time was 4 years ago when we moved so we could keep the horses at home. She was v depressed after the move, lost a lot of weight & looked dull, but just as I was about to call it a day, her sharer came & hacked her out & she perked up. The 2nd time was 2 years ago when she was colicky but that turned out to be my fault for worming with Pramox which is apparently too much for some old horses.

Each of those times, she had the look of having had enough. She did a tendon at the age of 29 which has healed slightly stiff & she's no longer a thing of great beauty, but she's field sound & until she gets that 'look' again, I'm more than happy to keep her.

You know your horse and you will know when she's not happy. I've had Jenny since she was 3 & I was 5, so she's part of the furniture too!
 
I dont think you are the worst person in the world and im sure your chiro isnt a cowboy. But i have to say i do really dislike it when the terminology 'putting back in/pelvis or poll is out' is used, especially by qualified people. Because this really is impossible, as explained earlier! Unfortunately there are alot of cowboys out there and anyone can call themselves a back person and do alot of damage, as im sure you know.

Good luck on monday, hope your pony is ok. These oldies need so much tlc dont they?!
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