older mare dilemma - advice/new ideas welcome

[rubysmum]

i know there is ahuge breadth of knowledge on this forum, so i'm hoping that folks can come up with some new ideas for me
my big mare is almost 22 - huge HW irish hunter
she was diagnosed with arthritis in her hock about 3 yrs ago - had a steroid/cortisone injection & responded well - had another one early in the summer & again responded well, but has really started to go down hill in the last 2/3 months - a fall on a road and another fall onthe yard
obs anything linked to arthritis , so effectively both her back legs now excluded from insurance &Y sadly i do not have unlimited resources to throw at the problem
she saw the vet a few weeks ago - under his direction she is now on 2 bute a day & is ridden very lightly to help with mobility
for the last 2 yrs she has lived out, agian to help with mobility - she started to loose weight, so started coming in for 4/5 hrs a day for hard feed and hay - she continued to loose weight, so meeting with feed specialist & is now on a finacially terrifying feed regime & in at night - this is helping with her weight but obs doing no good to her joints
i am not allowed to hay the field she lives in- its a small herd out there & no-body else wants hay in the field
she looks fed up and stiff
moving yard is not an option as i have another loan horse on this yard and cannot move her
i suppose i am hoping for improvement as the weather improves but am very aware that we will be in this position or worse next winter - having spent aprox 100 quid a month of additional feed/supplements & bute
its not as if i resent spending money on her - she is my horse and my responsibility and i have taken on an additional week end job to help with these costs

i feel very stuck and despondent
your ideas would be welcome

a couple of pics to give an idea of current condition

and tacked up for a wander around the menage

 

[Bikerchickone]

Hi Rubysmum, I have a brilliant qualified equine osteopath who comes out every few months to loosen off my heavy weight cob gelding's stiff hip. She's given me a couple of useful exercises to help him too and I've found it really does make a difference. I also put cider vinegar in his feeds, might sound strange but does seem to make a difference and isn't expensive at all.

I know some people feel that osteopaths etc are just in it for the cash they can get out of an unsuspecting/desperate to help their horse owner but if you go by word of mouth (and ask on here) I'm sure you'll be told about a good one in your area, and it really can help. Plus if it does help you'll be able to have your girl in for a bit longer to get more feed into her. I'd also be tempted to ask your vet to do blood tests for any imbalances as it sounds as though she shouldn't be losing weight, although even lots of grass at this time of year doesn't contain a great deal in the way of nutrients.

Good luck and I hope you can get her sorted out. xx

 

[Chestnuttymare]

mine lost a bit after being a bit stiff with arthritis a couple of years ago, she is 24 year old tb. she has always been kept fit and has never had much trouble with being stiff. I put her on top spec senior feed balancer and top spec cool condition cubes and never looked back. the balancer has the 10:10 joint supp in it and it made a difference to her within a few days. I also did light work in a straight line, no schooling and no jumping. can i ask what you have been advised to feed her?

 

[Natch]

Magnets seem to really help arthritis sufferers, My old YO swore by bioflow for her old stallion, and my mum finds one helpful, and god we knew how stiff our old lab got if we left her collar off for a few days. Worth investing in a pair of boots in my opinion

 

[finnywinny]

so sorry to hear about your lovely looking girl. Her story is a mirror to my old boy's, a huge old fashioned Belgian warmblood, all 17.3 of him and now aged 22.

my major problem whe he was at a yard was the same as yours - he needed trickle feeding all day but couldn't have hay in field and even if did he never got any coz he was low down in the herd.

i understand that you can't change her routine/management but my boys life and weight have been turned around by putting him on a high forage diet. he gets soaked grass nuts (good quality) with speedi beet and alfa chaff (Greengold from Simple Systems). Plus - micronised linseed, brewers yeast, magnesium and Rose hips. The Rose hips have made a HUGE difference, there is alot of research currently on the benefits of rosehips to arthritis suffers, human and equine. I soak the rosehips (I buy tubs of crushed rosehips from Feedmark) over night with the grass nuts. I found my old boy could eat a lot more of this forage bucket type feed than he could with any of the supposed sticky "build up" type mixes, which didn't do him any good at all. an older system seems to cope better with this type of feed than a cereal/grain based one. as above, what were you advised to feed her on??

Its really difficult when the only time they get to eat any extra feed/forage/hay etc is when they are in a stable and away from the herd. I eventually took my old boy out of livery and he now lives at home, all fat and hairy, but i know this isn;t an option for you.

Best of luck with her, but do read up about Rosehips and see what you think. I think its made a massive difference. This plus the linseed are great for general joint health and since being on them both he hasnt needed the danilon and he's generally much sounder.

I wish you all the best XX

 

[AmyMay]

Current condition looks excellent. How long has she been on the 2 x bute a day? And do you have her on Synaquin?

You also don't need to spend a fortune on feed. Just choose well and it should be cost effective.

If she is falling do not under any circumstances ride her - walk her in hand instead.

You're going to need to monitor her carefully (which I'm sure you're doing), and I'd say if there continues to be a decline over the next few weeks you may need to make a difficult decision.

She looks wonderful for an older HW girl.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Does she have to live out ??

I know you need mobility but cold is bad and if she just stands in the field when icy and cold with the chill wind snow and such soaking and chilling her legs that wont help

My mare is 23 , she got very stiff about 6 years back found it difficult to even do the simplest trot away from the vet . she had surgery on a splint bone and Arthritis starting at this point

What I did is researched a good supplement, and found through trial and error

Equimins flexijoint - with this she did a 180 and was doing a sponsored ride 2 months later like a spring chicken .

I was told by vet she would be on bute for life I thought so during that time bone rubs on bone but she cant feel it so gets worse

Nope not for me .

I noticed the difference in her within 2 weeks.once started on Flexi joint

you can read other H&H readers comments on flexijoint here under A and J for joints http://equinecare-and-control.weebly.com/a.html


Equimins give a money back guarantee on it .
I also weaned her off bute totally and she remained sound.

Also bought Harpley magnetic boots dont sweat with then and dont rub, links on here
http://equinecare-and-control.weebly.com/recomended-products.html



. I also put her on Cider vinegar which is gr8 for Arthritis.
Bought rubber mats for the stable,

. I also bought her leg wraps for the night time

. I have also found acupuncture gr8 and it helped too.

. I found def wear knee boots on the road in case she slips you could even put hock boots on if ness

then maybe put road studs or road nails in to help her with grip.

. Is there an equine pool near you ??? I found this really help full too

. also if your near the sea

. a spa can help too
also magnetic http://www.equilibriumproducts.com/ will help too.

Also pole work helps lie poles on the floor and lunge her over them will help gently mobility, if she can do raised ones that would be gr8.




The important thing is to keep hock mobile- pain free


Feed problem can she have extra feed at lunch time?: is there anyone there to do this? probably and extra for doing this but you might be able to strike up a deal with another livery they do this you do something like maybe tack cleaning for them in return.

Ready grass is good stuff too,
also a pro biotic to help the gut. Good feeding too , nothing to high starch maybe 16 + or something else ?

Can she have a hay net while your grooming her??

All the above help works on my mare

and if you can do a deal with another livery shouldn't cost anything . you help them they help you

 

[rockysmum]

My 36 year old is better in and warm that out being cold and hungry. Both him and my 21 year old just stand under the wall not moving for a lot of the time.

When I stabled on top of a moor I used leg warmers at night as well, they also appreciate being slightly overrugged. I have also used magnetic boots.

If you dont have any issues with lami or Cushings you can add calories quite cheaply using straights. In the past I have bought raw barley and cooked it for my lad. Its very very good at keeping weight on, and he liked nice warm feeds.

Have recently started with the Grazeon and they are loving it.

Good luck with your old girl.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Damn I do hate the fact that H&H wont let you edit after 15 mins

You need to try something this year so you can keep her healthy and NOT be in this situation next year . Please speak to David at Equimins he knows his stuff and they make their products from scratch.

Also


http://trinity-consultants.com/

they make personalized supplements for your individual horse the labels come with your name and horses name on it

 

[AmyMay]

Does she have to live out ??

The horse is in overnight.

 

[Ladylina83]

Good post !

It would be interesting to know what you are feeding. to see if we can find you a cheaper alternative to do the same job

 

[rubysmum]

thank you all so much for taking time to give such detailed responses - i should have mentioned her feed regime doh

she is currently on

top spec veteran balancer
top spec conditioning cubes
top spec alfafa
speedi beet
glug of veg oil

i have jsut run out of tumeric but she usually has some of that too

she saw the back lady in dec who could find no probs

i am less concerned about her weight now 3 weeks into her new feed regime as being in at night seems to be helping that

hydro therapy & acupuncure sounds lovely but i dont think that i can afford them

oddly enough, i was looking at magnetic bands for her the other day but am not aware of any reputable research that says they make any difference - but please feel free to correct me

i will look into the joint supplements mentioned here - thanks

 

[paulineh]

A good joint supplement as well as the bute would help.

I too would like to know what you are feeding as it only costs me about £100 plus hay to feed 4 horses and a pony , which includes 2 over 22yrs old. They all live out 24/7

How well is she rugged both in and out.

What is your grass like

Magnetic wraps help http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Armadillo...t=UK_Horse_Wear_Equipment&hash=item5d304b3653 Although these look expensive you only ever buy them once.

I have some of these which can be put on a certain area by either using a rug or bandage to a joint http://www.magnetictherapy.co.uk/scp/THERAPY_MAGNETS/BIO-NORTH_FLEXIBLE_PADS.html

Well worth looking at magnetic therapy

 

[AmyMay]

thank you all so much for taking time to give such detailed responses - i should have mentioned her feed regime doh

she is currently on

top spec veteran balancer
top spec conditioning cubes
top spec alfafa
speedi beet
glug of veg oil

No wonder you're feeling the financial pinch. Have you compared the Topspec ingredients to something like Blue Chip, and Dengie Alpha?

I suspect that now that she has access to hay over a longer period of time the weight will become less of an issue. Being out 24/7 without a reasonable amount of supplemented hay will cause any horse to loose weight.

You may well be able to get Synaquin on your insurance.......

 

[rubysmum]

You may well be able to get Synaquin on your insurance.......

if its linked to treatment for arthritis - i cant

i dont know what it is - doh

 

[AmyMay]

if its linked to treatment for arthritis - i cant

i dont know what it is - doh

It's a joint supplement - but available on prescription only, and rather expensive.

 

[Ladylina83]

Did the lady you spoke to work for top spec by any chance ?

Swap the top spec alfalfa for Alfa Oil - no added sugar in this and means you won't have to add the veg oil !

I would also swap the conditioning cube for a cup of linseed it's about £20 a bag but is great for conditioning and joints skin hair etc - folk rave about it and fed at this level will last much longer than a cube - pop it in the search box

stick with the speedibeet and your balancer too !

PS I also like feed old fashioned barley rings for condition, soaked to make a mash - and they work a treat but can be very heating depending on the horse ! £11 a bag and last for ages as they swell up ( this isn't for every horse but even my crazy mare is fine on them yet not on calm and condition)

 

[paulineh]

Top Spec food is expensive. Personally I would drop their Alfa and use Dengi Alfa Oil and then you would not need to buy extra oil. The Speedi Beet is good bulk.

You are paying about £58 for the balancer and conditioning flakes for the same type of feed I would be paying £36

I would also leave her with a tub of something like Redi grass

I would talk to other feed companies to see what they can offer.

 

[pixie]

Any reason in particular she's clipped?

 

[Orchardbeck]

My 22yo mare has similar issues with hock stiffness, she lost loads of weight after being on a lami regime but I changed her to dengie healthy hooves (any chop will help oldies) with added speedi beet and a glug of cod liver oil, she gets supplease gold, buteless and magnesium oxide. I've also increased her hay ration and she currently looks great, her coat is gleaming and she seems less stiff. She is in at night and out during the day unless the weather is horrific. Yet to try magnets but am very interested in them.

 

[smellsofhorse]

Such a difficult thing.
We would all do as much as we could without our own land and unlimited resources.
I think you will know when enough us enough, you don't want her suffer.

 

[Brandy]

Firstly, she looks fab.

I have a 31 yr old tb (occured to me yesterday thqat he would now officially be 31!!) and he is an ex polo pony, played high goal for the country and obv had quite a hard working life. He is stiff and arthritic, and has stringhalt.

I moved yards so that he could live out 18 months ago - my vet had recomended this for a number of years and we finally took the plunge. He now lives out with a field shelter. He has his own small paddock at night which has his shelter in, so he can have large night feed and ad lib haylage without the others getting at it. He then has his breakfast before being let into the other field with the other ponies.

Living out is the best thing for him, he used to cease up in a stable overnight. To be honest, being in or out won;t really make a difference to how cold he is, but you could use bioflow boots or turnout boots to keep the legs warm- i did this last year inthe all the nasty cold and snow and feel it really helped.

Re the feeding - it sounds as though you have already looked into this, but I will mention that I changed from simple systems feeds and weight gain mix, to Allen and Page Veteran Vitality and Fast Fibre in the autumn. My main reason and the SS feeds take to long to soak and last winter it was always frozen and I wanted to avoid this.

Speaking to Allen and Page, they advised me to stop the mix (even though it was one of their own) and feed veteran vitality and fast fibre. The horse looks fantastic on this, even a little fat which is unheard of at this time of year. I think the mild weather also helps with this though. But the biggest thing is that my farrier had really been struggling with his hind shoes - or rsther the horse was finding it difficult to stand on one leg for long and have the other one squashed up. Since changing feeds, he no longer has any issues with this at all - has started trotting round the field again (only used to walk or canter - was very unlevel in trot) and looks a whole lot more free moving. Highly recommended!

 

[claireandnadia]

My Nadia is nearly 19 and was diagnosed with arthritis in her right hock a few years back.
I moved her from a yard to a field 24/7 and the turn out done her great, she was out there for about a year and then I moved areas and couldn't find grass livery but we are now on a lovely yard that does 24/7 TO during the summer and she is out for about 11/12 hours in the winter.
She is fed a scoop of Spillers happy hoof, a cup of spillers lite balancer twice a day and the supps are scoop of turmeric, oil, equine answers joint supp, mixture of things like rose hips, yee sac etc and so far she has remained sound although is stiff some days.

She's had Tildren treatment twice on the insurancve but of course arthritis is now excluded so I can't afford any more of these.

 

[Moopoo]

My mare also has arthritis in both hocks - she is 20 and it was diagnosed 4 years ago in one hock, then it went to the other as well. This is how I manage her condition:

She has the steroid injections approximately once a year - although as time goes on the effect wears off much more quickly each time. She is also on Extraflex supplement. She is turned out during the day and stabled at night, and put on the horsewalker every day. I've found the key is to keep her moving with regular short rides, even if you've only got time for 20-30 minutes of bumbling about in the school. She is always a lot more stiff in winter, not helped by the fact that she mopes around in the field getting cold, but she can still gallop and jump like a lunatic when she's in the mood! I found lunging with a bungee thing round back legs (I just used an old bandage) also helped a lot with stiffness.

I feed lots of hay in the stable, and just a handful of feed to mix the supplement in with.

Hope this helps and good luck with your horse!

 

[rubysmum]

again - many thanks for all your responses - lots of useful feed advice there which i will act on soon as the cupboard is running low
i have just ordered her a magnetic leg thingy on the basis that it can do no harm & wasnt a big spend & have left a message for vet so that i can discuss supplements with him
rode her tonight & i guess that she must have known i was gettting very despondent because apart from some initial stiffness she actually moved better than she has for months

 

[Jazzy B]

My old mare had arthritis in both her hocks and her knees I found bandaging her at night helped a lot and fed her speedibeet along with spillers senior conditioning mix, soya oil and bute.

Your girly looks good at the moment I would be chuffed half way through the winter!!

 

[Tegan]

Hi

Just to let you know Synequin is not prescription only. You can buy it online. I usually just use google shopping to find the cheapest price. I got it for £117 a couple of months ago.

It seems expensive but once you have completed the initial loading dose you only need to give one scoop every other day so a tub lasts 200 days.

It was recommended by our vet and our insurance paid for it for the first year. I would be surprised if the insurance would pay for something that they don't think works.

Our horse has arthritis in some of his vertebrae so not the same problem but with an initial tildren treatment, plenty of excercise and synequin he is doing well and competing at Novice dressage (affiliated) and jumping up to 3ft. He lives out in the summer but is in at night in the winter. He is only 15 though.

Hope this helps
Tegan

 

[unbalanced]

Some excellent advice on here
I had my mare on synequin as long as the insurance was paying for it. However it was costing about £60 a month and now the insurance has run out I can't really afford it. I was discussing arthritis and supplements on here ages ago and JanetGeorge recommended trying Riaflex instead of Synequin. When I googled it I found (according to their comparison table) that it has the same ingredients in the same quantities as Synequin for a far, far better price. I just got my first order of Riaflex today, by coincidence (pony has been on straight glucosamine in the in-between-time).

The other thing I am going to try is taking her shoes off. I have been paying rather a lot to travel her up to a remedial farrier to have lateral extensions put on, which, while effective, costs a small fortune. I am hoping that pony can reproduce the same or better effect by growing her own feet as nature intended. I don't know what your shoeing/feet situation is but you might find this worth looking into as according to many people on here they have had very good results for spavins by taking the shoes off.

I second everyone who has recommended stable wraps and magnet boots. I am not sure whether it is the warmth or the magnets that helps, but one of the two does something.

I have been learning to work my horse in hand and this seems to have increased the mobility of her hindlegs. Exercises like turn around the forehand where she has to step under herself without the weight of the rider seem to have been particularly beneficial.

 

[SusieT]

I actually would say she's a bit overweight and underconditioned which is to be expected in an old hrose (the underconditioning) in light work only. If she is falling regularly I think you know th eonly real option is euthanasia. If she is comfortable in the field I would let her trundle on but if she's noticeably lame you had a duty of care unfortunately.