Oldie suddenly looking really poor

[Bens_Mum]

My cob is 20 this year always been a good doer and on the side of fat if anything.

He's not being worked so has had about three months off due to baby but will be starting again in Jan.

He is on full livery and with poorly baby and various other things I hadn't been up for a couple of weeks.

Last night I went up and was mortified. He looks ancient. His back is protruding and his flank is sloping his shoulder bone is sticking out. He looks like an old brood mare.

He was in work in September and muscle was fine. I know he's getting old but this is a really sudden change over a month or so maximum. He is on reasonable grazing, teeth fine, good hay. I don't understand what has happened.

It crossed my mind it was Cushings but does it come on this quick? I'm in a difficult spot with a very young baby right now and I can't get down there on my own so I am reliant on the yard but I certainly don't think he's been under fed or anything like that. The yo isn't concerned she thinks he's just old?

I've been really upset about it all night he's been my pride and joy for years and it's a real battle to keep him on this last year but I've done it he's part of the family. The vet saw him about a month ago and he was weighed etc. At that point he had lost a bit of muscle but nothing like this. He's very hairy too so when I clip him in January I dread to think what's underneath.

Any thoughts? Obviously I will get the vet if needed but I'm just wondering what everyone else thinks?

 

[Equi]

Honestly 20 is not that old anymore. I would not expect a 20 yo to suddenly look thin or ancient. If you can't see him for weeks on end you can't know what's happening.

 

[Clare85]

Must be worrying for you op.

How long have you had him at current yard? What is he being fed? How much turnout vs time in stable does he get? Is he on adlib forage? Has he had any routine changes in the last few weeks that could've affected him? Is he rugged? Could he be too hot with the unseasonably warm weather and his thick coat?

Hopefully it will be something relatively simple that you can change to get him looking good again.

 

[Goldenstar]

Get a vet straight to him .
Make sure you know what he's being fed.
Never trust anyone and I mean anyone with your horse without checking up all the time .
I hope it's nothing awful.
Stopping work is not good for oldies .

 

[Bens_Mum]

I think that some people who have small children a business and no help have to trust others. He has been there a long time whenever I turn up the stables are nicely done he has plenty of hay and they are out every day for a good 5 hours or so. If this is to do with care there will be hell up trust me. Because I can't be there lately doesn't mean I don't care I really did a lot of research before choosing this place.

I have had him 10 years and did try a sharer and it was a total disaster so he's not able to be in work. I feel guilty enough to be honest without being made to feel worse but sadly my baby has to come first when she's sick and I'm paying out hundreds a month to make sure he is well cared for.

He's just on a token amount of chaff and balancer because he's always been a tank. Obviously I will be going up later with baby to discuss with yo but it's not easy as anyone with a screaming child knows and not very easy to do anything with the horse with baby strapped to you so my arm is up my back till January when she's back in nursery.

I didn't think it was right either. I just wanted others opinions before I panic.

He isn't rugged no and has a very thick coat but there was no evidence of dry sweat or anything last night.

Il speak to yo and phone the vet. At first I did think it was muscle wastage as he isn't ribby at all that is why I was querying cushings.

 

[Cocorules]

Cushings would be my first thought too. With mine the first sign was being ribby.

 

[Clare85]

OP, don't beat yourself up - it's very hard juggling a small baby and a horse. It's clear that you care about him, or you wouldn't be worried and wouldn't have posted this. Discuss things with your YO and have your vet out to take a look at him. It's always worth having the cushings test, then you will know one way or the other.

Has the YO noticed he's started to look poor and mentioned it to you? Obviously on full livery you would expect the YO to pick up on anything like this and let you know.

I hope your baby is feeling better soon and that you get your boy sorted x

 

[sarahann1]

And breathe OP, you poor thing, hopefully once you've had a proper chat with your YO and the vet things will seem clearer.

20 is no age at all these days, hopefully it's nothing serious and easily manageable.

 

[Farcical1]

My first thought is lack of food; it's the most obvious cause of any horse loosing weight. If you're absolutely sure he's getting sufficient to eat, then you need to look further and that means involving your vet and dentist as early as possible.
You say it's been a marked change in a short space of time, so I'd definitely be on to the vet for a review.
To be frank with you, if the YO doesn't think this is a cause for concern, then I wouldn't be fully confident in their abilities.

 

[Archangel]

I have a giant tank of a horse who now he is 20 needs a bit of help. I have come to the conclusion that although the grass is keeping going this year it may be a bit of a red herring - mine certainly looks green but perhaps there is not quite as much goodness as expected.

The Tank is now on Thunderbrook and he is already coming back. It could be that your boy's days of living on fresh air are coming to an end. Mine is retired due to kissing spine and when I compare photos of him in his riding days when really muscled he does look different now (so do I now I'm not riding that Monster!).

I am quite quick to ask the vet to run bloods these days rather than wait and see but my boy seems to have bounced back quickly - hopefully it will be the same for yours.

 

[impresario08]

blood tests

 

[fatpiggy]

Hi OP, Don't panic. Have his teeth checked, he may have a wobbly one and it is making it hard for him to chew his hay, and have the vet check him for Cushings, liver and a general bloods review. It wouldn't hurt to have a physio check him over too if he has been going without much exercise and he may be feeling very stiff. Low grade pain can be a real weight stripper. Up his food immediately but steadily with extra fibre such as sugar beet and start gently adding some oil. Don't forget that if you haven't seen him for a couple of weeks your eyes actually change - it can be very hard to see slow changes when you see them every day close up. On my old yard we had some new ponies in as it was also an RS. I went into hospital and wasn't able to go up for 10 days. As soon as I escaped obviously the first place I went was to see my mare and there was a lesson going on. One of the new ponies went past me and it was patently obvious that she was somewhat pregnant! No-one else had spotted it previously including me and I saw her every day. So they went and looked at the other new one as they had come together and yes, she was up the duff too! When my horse was about 23 I walked her down to the local RC show ground which was half a mile or so away. There were some kids wanting to pet her (of course, she attracted them like a magnet) so I asked them if they would like to hold her while I put my entry in. I was happy with my mare's condition and thought she was looking shiny and well. The show secretary was a bit surprised to see me and asked who I was riding as they had heard the old girl had been PTS. I laughed and said, no there she is over there and turned to point to my elderly looking, rather lean mare compared to the fit, plump, muscular younger animals. I can tell you it gave me quite a shock.

 

[Vodkagirly]

I would have a chat with YO to see how he has been managed and ask if there have been any stresses that may of caused him to loose weight. My 23 year old got an abscesses last November and the weight and muscle fell off him. He went from a fit horse that was still competing to looking like he was in his last winter in a couple of weeks so I would first rule out pain. Once we got the pain relieved he picked up slowly. If there is nothing obvious there, then I would call vet and get teeth done and ask for the cushings blood test.

 

[Bens_Mum]

Thanks all for being so lovely I am sorry if I come across snappy I've just had no sleep for months and this was rather the last straw I work really hard to pay the bill so I'm not much pleased tbh but this near Christmas and the fact I can't do him means my back is rather against the wall. When I take Lo there I get snotty comments too so can't win!

I would normally have him eating constantly which they don't but then he would be in a lot of work. I did notice that haynets were bigger last night that before and she has put him onto straw which he will be eating all of.

He's never had hard feed before because he's fat and it makes him silly to ride so it's always been a token gesture so he doesn't kick hell out of the door.

She's very abrupt and defensive so this is going to be a deep breath before discussion because I'm rather at the end of my tether and this is the last straw at the moment.

The yard was recommended on here it's very professional and she has a good reputation. He has been happy there for nearly a year now although on grass livery all summer with me poo picking. They have only done him since he has come in.

He was very fat at the start of summer so he did need to loose some but now it may well need to go the other way. I've never noticed him there with a rug on and although he's a hairy he's always been babied so maybe words need to be had all around about what it is that I expect.

I think I will just have to drag Lo there everyday and make my presence a bit more felt which is a pain at the minute but I think a bit of foot stamping is needed the fields change a lot too so will go up today and see what grass there is.

He seems extra grumpy he is victor meldrew at the best of times but he likes his routine and work so that might be playing a part.

Il go today and get some veteran feed and take it up I don't mind paying for it just want the best for him. I've still got bins and stuff here.

If after my freak out its still as bad il call the vet out too. Think the key is to keep the peace if I can for now in January I will be able to ride him and do more but for now I really am stuck and can't move him anywhere if the fault is there's.

I said last night oh no he's filthy and her reply was he's been much worse!! It was a jokey comment I don't expect them to groom him! There is a very snotty attitude because I haven't been up yet too which makes me feel terrible but surly that is the point of full livery?

 

[Cheshire Chestnut]

Sorry to hear this OP.

Sorry if that had already been answered but what's his worming program been like? No chance he has worms? They can cause dramatic weight loss very quickly.

 

[Damnation]

It could be she is defensive because she thinks she will be blamed, and it may well not be her fault at all. (Lets face it, us horsey ladies when it comes to our cherished equines do have a track record for flipping out at the nearest person even if it isn't their fault!)

Have a chat with her tonight, tell her you are not out to blame or upset, you just want the best for your horse (as I am sure she will too as she seems to have a good reputation) and you both need to discuss the best course of action for him. If that means his management is altered then its best you try and do this "together" so she doesn't feel blamed, his care doesn't slip as a result and she feels included (stroke her ego a bit!).

Regardless, such a weight drop would hugely concern me, especially in a small space of time. If he has always been a good doer/a bit on the fat side I would be suprised if it was due to his management by the yard being incorrect. I would be telling the YO that regardless of what you discuss you want to get the vet out for blood tests and a general check up. If he was grumpier than usual it could be pain related/an underlying problem.

 

[Bens_Mum]

Just got a photo out from two months ago and his back bone is not even slightly pronounced so it's not me.

Have called the vet and will arrange for them to come out. She says its 5 working days for bloods so won't know till after new year now which is a pain.

Il go and be diplomatic as I can be! I do think it should have been mentioned though. As I said I've no problem buying feed or anything that's needed so il see if approaching it that way helps..

 

[Gloi]

Cushings and dental problems would be my first thing to check too. My oldie has had both but is currently looking great. His Cushings is well controlled and he has had diastemas packed which really helped his chewing.

 

[Bens_Mum]

She does worm counts but I have wormed anyway so it shouldn't be that but il ask when the last count was too and see if he's been done lately.

 

[Bens_Mum]

That's good news I guess I just took it forgranted he would be bankrupting me for years to come it's just a bit of panic I think!

 

[DressageCob]

It could be a few things. The fact he's not wearing a rug, when he normally would, is stabled when he used to be out and is out of work could be the cause of his loss of condition.

Although 20 isn't regarded as that old these days, that's not true across the board. My friend's horse is 20 and is poor. He eats loads, no health problems, lives like a king etc. But he has lost the muscle across his back so his spine protrudes and behind his shoulders looks sunken. Perhaps because he's always been a chubby happy hacker he didn't have masses of muscle to begin with. Compared to the other horses on the yard who are older, up to mid/late 20s, he's very poor but it's not through lack of management. I think that some horses just age quicker than others, just like people.

Good luck with the vet

 

[Goldenstar]

OP I would ask your vet about giving your horse myloplast when you start riding him again it's a supplement that supports muscle development but the horse needs to be in work .
I was a sceptic until I tried it and boy it worked on my horse .

 

[peaceandquiet1]

I know how hard it is with a baby especially if yours is poorly, and you are aware there is something not right, so i think you have done your best. We have an older pony, he looks terrible in winter because he doesn't work much, but is muscled up in summer. I would definitely want to rule out Cushing's in you horse's case.

 

[Annagain]

It sounds like you've got a plan so best of luck with it. I'd be careful with a veteran mix though. They are quite high in starch and if normal feed sends him loopy it's likely a veteran mix will. When I put my old boy in it he went proper mental (as they say here in S. Wales). He was excitable enough as it was! I'd try something like Calm and Condition or Saracen Re-Leve instead, they'll give as many calories without the fizz.

 

[Apercrumbie]

That kind of weight loss would definitely concern me. 20 really isn't old at all and it has clearly happened so suddenly. With temperatures as they are (sorry if you're up in the highlands or somewhere that might actually be cold) the lack of rug shouldn't be a problem either. I'm assuming he's unclipped? If he is, most horses with a full coat round us are actually overheating atm!

Hopefully the vet will be able to give you some answers. Blood tests are an obvious starter, as is a cushings test. He is getting to an age where that becomes more likely. You could also ask the vet to have a quick look at his teeth to check there is nothing obvious there. Obviously a chat is needed with the YO to really get to the bottom of his management - she should have told you that he was losing condition!

 

[ester]

I too wouldn't go all out on the veteran mix OP, sugarbeet, micronised linseed, and possibly copra if still struggling would be a better idea IMO.

I too have a good doer cob, he is 22 now and has just hit the point where in the winter I do actually have to feed him (albeit he is in work and clipped) I told mum she would have a fit if she saw how much he was getting these days .
I would do the vet given the speed of the change and to put your mind at rest though, autumn is the trouble time for cushings so it could be that amongst other things.
I would be annoyed that the YO had not noticed/saw fit to call me and asked if I wanted to see what I thought/up his feed etc.

 

[Nettle123]

Its so hard when time is not your own anymore with the baby. The Vet is a good plan. I have just been in the field with my gang. There are 3 cobs aged between 20 and 30 and they are still fat as butter. They only get hay twice a day and are not losing any weight. I usually rely on winter to get their figures back so I would be a bit worried about yours too.

Hopefully it will be something simple and easily put right.

 

[electric_circus]

Echo the comments about oldies looking poor when not in work - my 20 year old looks dreadful when he's not in work but in full work (and doing full days hunting at present) no one believes he is that age. He hasn't got the best conformation anyway, which doesn't help, but when not in work he also loses his appetite so drops off terribly, and also terribly quickly. Don't beat yourself up; veteran horses are like people and find it harder to build and hold muscle so condition can go very quickly. You've had some great advice from posters here about finding out if there is a problem and also some supplements which may help; looking a bit poor in winter isn't a permanent state for most of them and can be fixed xx

 

[Bens_Mum]

I wanted to hunt this year so he was really fit in September till Lo decided to refuse to go to nursery any more!! Oh well hopefully the new one will be more successful!

Been up to the yard this morning and said I'm getting the vet they are all in agreement so that is good. Doesn't look like anything is different with feeding he's got what should be plenty of forage. Grazing is ok too.

There are a couple of older horses there with cushings one has a similar look but I guess we will only find out when the vet has been.

It's really mild now but the last couple of weeks were very hard frosts when he could have probably done with a rug on even with coming in and a good thick coat it is Scotland so it's a bit cooler here.

Fingers crossed its nothing that can't be sorted out it will be interesting to see how being back in work goes if I get the chance I might try lunging him a bit and see if getting him moving will help start to build some muscle

 

[unicornystar]

My main concern would be that the yard manager/owner did not alert you to his loss of condition sooner? If you are paying good money to have him taken care of while you have baby in tow, then thats what they should be doing.

20 is not old, I have a welsh D 24 year old with EMS, so weight wont ever be lost in fact opposite problem, but what oldies dont seem to cope with are this continual damp wet weather. They need extra forage if not rugged to keep themselves warm, sounds to me like either cushings, tooth problem or he simply isnt getting enough forage. Grass is of no consquence despite the mild weather, there really is no value in it this close to January.

Shove baby in a carry sling, screaming or not, absolutely no reason not to, the fresh air may indeed help! Let them scream, I managed to look after 4 horses as a single mum like this (and working full time- no easy feat), mucking out the lot, within a few days baby daughter actually began enjoying it and instead of screaming and balling began chattering away, it was actually quite nice!!

BUT if you are choosing to pay for FULL LIVERY that is your choice and they should be looking after your chap properly. Me, personally, I trust no-one except a close friend or two with my horses and dogs, you just never know.