Olympic (and non) Dressage - silly rules

[Crazy_cat_lady]

I really don't like this trend for ear covers, they are hideous things, on the eventing they seem to be appearing in every phase, looking back at the footage from the 90s etc they are nowhere to be seen.

I think dressage should have the option of doing it in a snaffle if they want to, doubles shouldn't be compulsory, I've ridden in one and know they offer that bit extra refinement but it would be even better to be able to achieve all that from a snaffle

 

[ester]

what's wrong with ear covers?

 

[I'm Dun]

Mine is barely capable of a walk trot test at the minute, but he still has ear covers as hes a princess about flies, rain or even wind getting in his ears. I cant imagine what welfare issue there would be with using them?

I do also like the way they look, and my other one wears them as I like them.

 

[Kat]

I really don't like this trend for ear covers, they are hideous things, on the eventing they seem to be appearing in every phase, looking back at the footage from the 90s etc they are nowhere to be seen.

I think dressage should have the option of doing it in a snaffle if they want to, doubles shouldn't be compulsory, I've ridden in one and know they offer that bit extra refinement but it would be even better to be able to achieve all that from a snaffle

Watching the eventing dressage I think you can see the advantage that the double gives.

I mean it isn't insurmountable, Oli T was in a snaffle and has the highest score so far, but Alex HT in his double produced a more refined picture overall (and the same for some of the others). I guess it is a bit chicken and egg but I noticed a difference.

I suspect that at the level of the pure dressage riders you would find everyone chose a double anyway because it helps get the best performance due to the very subtle differences that you can communicate.

 

[milliepops]

there are GP riders who compete at national level in a snaffle. under national rules it's permitted, just depends on the horse what's best really.

 

[Honey08]

I never used to watch dressage 10 years ago because I found it harsh and often cruel. But I think it’s evolving massively in a good way, largely down to Carl and Charlotte. Nowadays it looks like horsemanship rather than horse mastership. And I can understand the use of ear covers in an Olympic stadium (probably more so with a crowd!). Just not so much when it’s just done to match the numnah on a hack on a boiling hot day!

 

[Kat]

there are GP riders who compete at national level in a snaffle. under national rules it's permitted, just depends on the horse what's best really.

I don't think it would harm the sport to allow it as an option at international championships as it is at national level. I suspect it would be a minority but there is no good reason to prevent it imho.

 

[milliepops]

no, i agree, and unlike bitless I could see this happening within the not too distant future.

 

[SEL]

I was in the audience for the 2012 team final and there were quite a few that made me squirm to watch them - Charlotte's test then was a different league. I thought the vast majority of tests this week were in a much better frame, with calmer hands. Much less SEL squirming. I love watching dressage at this level and I think that's because I know how B***** hard it is to make it look as easy as they do!

I'm currently having to ride bitless and I don't think it is any kinder or easier on the horse than riding well with a bit. In fact I think it can be worse because you don't have that sensitivity or finesse. It would be interesting if they changed the rules and allowed bitless to see how horses perform against bitted.

I noticed noseband checks and spur mark checks post tests and I think that's standard now???

 

[milliepops]

I noticed noseband checks and spur mark checks post tests and I think that's standard now???

I think the difference is the checks are done afterwards now which means you can have examples like the Russian rider who used an illegal curb but it was not picked up until the test was all scored... and she was not eliminated for it. however riders expect to be checked which ought to be improving things. I do think it must be, e.g you used to get multiple horses with huge streams of froth streaming all over their front legs and now for the most part you just see nice foamy lips with softer mouths.

 

[muddybay]

What I don't understand is why spurs are allowed but schooling whips aren't even at regionals at a lower level!

 

[Kat]

What I don't understand is why spurs are allowed but schooling whips aren't even at regionals at a lower level!

Because they have different uses.

Spurs are necessary to give the incredibly accurate refined aids necessary at the top level.

Schooling whips are for schooling/training and shouldn't be needed in the ring at the top level.

 

[milliepops]

Because they have different uses.

Spurs are necessary to give the incredibly accurate refined aids necessary at the top level.

Schooling whips are for schooling/training and shouldn't be needed in the ring at the top level.

yeah I'm inclined to think this way, it's a championship even regionals at prelim, so combinations should be suitably established to not need it

(I say this as someone who has decided not to enter any further champs on current horse, because she finds it hard to stay on the aids enough to really show her best work at advanced level without an occasional reminder, particularly if a little overawed by the environment!)

 

[muddybay]

yeah I'm inclined to think this way, it's a championship even regionals at prelim, so combinations should be suitably established to not need it

(I say this as someone who has decided not to enter any further champs on current horse, because she finds it hard to stay on the aids enough to really show her best work at advanced level without an occasional reminder, particularly if a little overawed by the environment!)

Yeah my point was at lower level championships where the horses may be overwhelmed by the environment and need a little tap!

 

[milliepops]

still a championship though, it's either supposed to find the cream of the crop for that year or not.. the cream won't be needing that whip.

you could argue it's too easy to qualify for *runs and hides* again I've never struggled to qualify even with a horse that does not do her best in the ring without the attention-grabbing tool of a schooling whip, honestly we are rarely in the ribbons so we're not really a good enough standard

 

[Kat]

I have to say that this thread has made me think that I will ride with my schooling whip much less. I carry it as a matter of habit really and very rarely use it. If I ever get around to entering anything serious I would have to ride without it in the ring so it would be useful to be used to riding without.

It is used 95% of the time for doing the gate or picking stuff up from the floor rather than for its intended purpose!

 

[milliepops]

in the past I'd have said there was an argument for allowing whips at AFs but the standard is often extremely high as people sometimes choose that over regionals.

 

[muddybay]

Same with me I've only just started working with a schooling whip instead of a jumping whip (I know that's completely wrong in dressage even unaff!) but I already feel myself becoming a bit reliant on it!

 

[milliepops]

I have to say that this thread has made me think that I will ride with my schooling whip much less. I carry it as a matter of habit really and very rarely use it. If I ever get around to entering anything serious I would have to ride without it in the ring so it would be useful to be used to riding without.

It is used 95% of the time for doing the gate or picking stuff up from the floor rather than for its intended purpose!

it's definitely good to break the habit, i used to do no-whip-bootcamp periodically to make sure we weren't relying on it, i also occasionally do no-spurs-bootcamp just working on simpler stuff to make sure my horse is sensitive enough to the *go* aids, i normally really enjoy those rides
the thing i find difficult is if you put your whip down and then in the moment in training you wish you had it...

 

[Rowreach]

the occasional good ride? i watched 4 days of dressage this week on Discovery and I'd say there was a *handful* of rides that were not lovely to watch, the general standard has been absolutely rocketing away in recent years in terms of performance and harmony.

4 Olympics ago I was literally crying, and not with joy, at what I was seeing from the dressage riders. It was horrible to watch, brutal riding and unhappy, tense, forced horses.

This time it has been almost a pleasure, and watching Carl and Charlotte always shows what a happy partnership can produce.

There are a few riders who could benefit from their wisdom, but dressage is certainly getting there, and is a world away from 15/20 years ago.

 

[splashgirl45]

i really enjoyed the many dressage riders who are riding in harmony with their horses...there are a few who still make me cross as it looks like a battle rather than a partnership. the good ones were IMO brilliant, i number carl and charlotte, fogosos rider, the americans, the germans and the danish, cant remember exactly who else. the germans used to be very forceful riders many years ago and have changed dramatically for the good. the individual medallist was wonderful to watch and really deserved the victory....

 

[NinjaPony]

I do get a bit fed up with the assumption (usually from people who don’t compete at dressage/train horses) that schooling whips are a harmful thing for training. Obviously used badly they are, but when used correctly they can be extremely useful. My pony had been trained to be sensitive to the whip but not over reactive (not by me I was just lucky!) so I could give a tiny flick in the right place eg ask the hind leg to move over, ask for a bit more impulsion behind my leg, flick the shoulder to ask for that extra reach. It should complement the training and horses should see it as an extension of your aids.
I do agree with not having it at a championship though, even though that never worked in my favour!

 

[Sossigpoker]

I don't have as much knowledge of dressage but in showjumping a stick and pair of spurs in the ring will be the least of many horse's worries. It's what goes on behind closed doors that worries me.

And I expect the same goes for dressage. Remember rollkur?
I enjoy watching Carl and Charlotte ride and read interviews with them etc as i know neither one believes I'm "shortcuts " via unkind methods or gadgets.

In fact I ride in Carl's training reins with the elastic at the bit end as I'm not able to maintain a flexible enough contact with my cob and he strongly objects to being held!

 

[I'm Dun]

I do get a bit fed up with the assumption (usually from people who don’t compete at dressage/train horses) that schooling whips are a harmful thing for training. Obviously used badly they are, but when used correctly they can be extremely useful. My pony had been trained to be sensitive to the whip but not over reactive (not by me I was just lucky!) so I could give a tiny flick in the right place eg ask the hind leg to move over, ask for a bit more impulsion behind my leg, flick the shoulder to ask for that extra reach. It should complement the training and horses should see it as an extension of your aids.
I do agree with not having it at a championship though, even though that never worked in my favour!

anyone who thinks whips are used as punishment so take up driving. It makes you see them in a very different way.

 

[humblepie]

I posted on the other thread that a number of years back at Olympia I didn't enjoy watching the dressage as it was like horse wrestling. This was so much different and lots looking in lovely harmony. At my low level I must admit I don't generally carry a whip in the arena as I am not sure I ever use it any way.
My OH doesn't like seeing canter pirouettes - he thinks they look very awkward for most horses.

 

[little_critter]

Same with me I've only just started working with a schooling whip instead of a jumping whip (I know that's completely wrong in dressage even unaff!) but I already feel myself becoming a bit reliant on it!

I've just switched the other way!
My horse keeps sitting behind my leg. If I tap him with the schooling whip he braces, it doesn't get the forward reaction I want. However if I slap my boot with a short whip I get the reaction. So I think I'll be schooling with a short whip for a while until I get get him reacting properly to my leg.

 

[splashgirl45]

I posted on the other thread that a number of years back at Olympia I didn't enjoy watching the dressage as it was like horse wrestling. This was so much different and lots looking in lovely harmony. At my low level I must admit I don't generally carry a whip in the arena as I am not sure I ever use it any way.
My OH doesn't like seeing canter pirouettes - he thinks they look very awkward for most horses.

horses do a similar movement when loose in the field usually round once so it is a natural movement but agree the double piris do seem a bit awkward

 

[muddybay]

I've just switched the other way!
My horse keeps sitting behind my leg. If I tap him with the schooling whip he braces, it doesn't get the forward reaction I want. However if I slap my boot with a short whip I get the reaction. So I think I'll be schooling with a short whip for a while until I get get him reacting properly to my leg.

That's how I got my horse responding properly to me now she's listening and responding well I've switched to long! Also when I first got her she'd spook at the long whip

 

[Zuzan]

It's pefectly possible to use a double bridle without being "heavy" ... the principle should be that whatever tack you use it is about communication .. the way equines uses their mouths is very similar to the way we use our hands.. and for this reason and the fact it is very close to the brain it's an extremely good way of communicating with them.

I agree that modern dressage it looks often (probably is) very much a case of using any tack to hold the horse together because it hasn't truly learnt self carriage. I know many ppl dismiss this as modern dressage horses are much bigger / more powerful but that goes back to my first pt that whatever tack you use it should be about communication. If you feel like you are out of control or having to hold a horse together this to me is a sign that the training / schooling is insufficient.

Aids are how we communicate with horses. Respecting the horse as a sentient being doesn't mean we should stop communicating we should examine how we communicate.

 

[Orangehorse]

Agree that the dressage is so much nicer now that 20 years ago, when there were overbent horses, flying slober (sign of crushed throat), on the forehand and terrible piaffe and seemed to be a trial of strength between the horse and rider.

I missed the winner's test, but thought Isabell Werth's horse was amazing, and of the admittedly not many tests that I watched I thought they were lovely.