On another Crufts note

[mollichop]

What's with the constant treat feeding? I understand it helps hold the dogs attention and carriage, much like picking grass for show horses when in-hand.

However, they seemed to constantly have a biscuit/treat shoved half in their mouth The boxers handler was the worst offender.

I personally rarely use food as a reward, think a dog should come back to me because it wants to not just because I provide food, but nor do I show my dogs so is this as common as it seemed or just due to the fact that it was a particually long day and the dogs were tireing?

Genuinely interested

 

[kyanya]

On the dog training feature too, the trainer was saying you have to keep making the dog want to come back to you, so keep using treats, pretty much regardless of the stage of training the dog's at.

I wonder how we ever manage to train horses, where titbits are rarely used

 

[Tillypup]

Some breeds do bait their dogs an awful, sometimes going into a ring after a particular breed there is food all over the floor, great fun for trying to get my dogs to move around with their noses off the ground!!

It is all about keeping their attention, getting them to look more animated etc etc. I've been stood next to handlers with squeaky toys in their pockets the works! At one particular venue we go to the pointers are generally outside and there are almost always pigeons strutting around!! Well, if they want to see an alert, attentive looking dog they have got it! Unfortunately the pigeons won't always stand in front of my dog when they are standing!!!

 

[Tillypup]

On the dog training feature too, the trainer was saying you have to keep making the dog want to come back to you, so keep using treats, pretty much regardless of the stage of training the dog's at.

I wonder how we ever manage to train horses, where titbits are rarely used

When we got our first pointer and had loads of problems training her, loads of people gave suggestions on treats to try to get her to recall!! There is no treat out there that is half as exciting to an air scenting dog as the smell of a bird!!! This is where I find the daily thrashing come in handy, just to reinforce who is boss!!

(just joking, Tilly knows she's the boss!!)

 

[mollichop]

When we got our first pointer and had loads of problems training her, loads of people gave suggestions on treats to try to get her to recall!! There is no treat out there that is half as exciting to an air scenting dog as the smell of a bird!!! This is where I find the daily thrashing come in handy, just to reinforce who is boss!!

(just joking, Tilly knows she's the boss!!)

Exactly! lol

I also noticed quite a few of the dogs stopping to scoff the scraps off the floor when they were meant to have moved off - cue the handler having to jolt the dogs head up - shame it spoilt the run round.

 

[Spudlet]

Why should a dog come back to anyone without incentive? And why judge what someone else's workable incentive is?

 

[EAST KENT]

Why should a dog come back to anyone without incentive? And why judge what someone else's workable incentive is?

It would be a daft dog who worked for no reward ,in my dogs` opinion

 

[prosefullstop]

It would be a daft dog who worked for no reward ,in my dogs` opinion

I reckon the smarter the dog, the more they push the boundaries where commands are concerned. Upon learning "drop it" in obedience class, my Boston terrier decided it would be a good idea to put the command into practise at home, by sourcing a piece of rubbish on my carpet, approaching me, and wagging her head and body to get me to notice. She also manipulated the heeling command--again, taught with treats--by walking four paces and then sitting down and looking the other way, at which point the instructor told me to say "heel", so I did, then dog is on the move and gets another treat. She is less conniving with a squeaky ball, so we use that for recall.

 

[soloabe]

Why should a dog come back to anyone without incentive? And why judge what someone else's workable incentive is?

I have to say i 100% agree. Why is everyone so afraid of using treats with their dogs? You don't work for free! Dogs don't work out of the kindness of their hearts thats not how it works.

 

[Goya]

On another note re the Boxer handler--did anyone else notice how she continually was jerking the lead. I thought it was very visible and quite Harsh. It reminded me of a rider who continually jabbed a horse in the mouth.

 

[Tillypup]

I have to say i 100% agree. Why is everyone so afraid of using treats with their dogs? You don't work for free! Dogs don't work out of the kindness of their hearts thats not how it works.

I wish mine were more interested in treats, it would make training so much easier!! I don't have a problem with using treats in training, or baiting dogs in the show ring (as I remember how beautifully my bitch stood whilst the lady next to us was baiting their dog once at a show!) I personally don't really like it when people start chucking food around (though can see why they do it) as it always seems to be left on the floor for the next classes. I don't like it when they start using squeaky toys though, even when the toy is kept in the pocket!

ps, my dogs come back because they know, if they do, they are allowed off to play again!! Well, usually it works!!!

 

[soloabe]

ps, my dogs come back because they know, if they do, they are allowed off to play again!! Well, usually it works!!!

And that is treating your dog. Be it food, toys or life rewards that is still treating/rewarding your dog.

 

[MurphysMinder]

I remember showing one of my GSDs in a variety class and the person next to me was chucking bits of liver around for her dog. Cue one GSD shooting across and nicking the liver from under the poor dogs nose.
Re training for treats, when I first trained dogs it was pretty much unheard of to use treats, the reward was a fuss or word of praise, and if they didn't do what was asked it was, I'm afraid, a firm correction. As the use of treats became popular over the years I was at first a bit sceptical, but now happily resort to bribery, and think I probably get faster results than when it used to just be a pat on the head .

 

[Kaylum]

Have to say I have never used treats like that to get dogs to recall, what I do is train them with another dog who I know will recall and the puppy follows and gets the message. I dont use treats for horses either. But each to their own.

 

[stargirl88]

don't think it's a biggie that they use treats, but surely, I would think that they could use smaller less-crumbly treats. The one that was I think shoved in front of the boxer looked massive!
I don't treat train my horse but I probably should, a carrot goes a long way with her :O

 

[CorvusCorax]

If a dog works for food, feed it, if a dog works for play, give him a ball, if a dog works for freedom, free him

Or do like we do and blow air horns and whistles

 

[Tillypup]

If a dog works for food, feed it, if a dog works for play, give him a ball, if a dog works for freedom, free him

Or do like we do and blow air horns and whistles

Or someone else outside the ring eh???

 

[CorvusCorax]

I'll have you know I've never blown anyone else outside the ring, how rude!!!!

 

[kirstyhen]

Thanks CC, I just choked on my own saliva

 

[Tillypup]

I'll have you know I've never blown anyone else outside the ring, how rude!!!!

Titter titter!!!! Just my level of humour!! So, you only blow inside he ring then??

 

[CorvusCorax]

In the grandstands, the grandstands

 

[kirstyhen]

Depends on the judge I guess...

 

[MurphysMinder]

You wouldn't believe some of the goings on in the GSD world, I think Jilly Cooper is going to use it as a background for her next book.

 

[mollichop]

And that is treating your dog. Be it food, toys or life rewards that is still treating/rewarding your dog.

That's it, my dogs are motivated by praise. I'm not knocking those that food treat, just found the level at Crufts off-putting and thought it detracted from the judging.

 

[SamanthaG]

Show training and obedience training are very different things, take our new addition for example in ringcraft we use treats to stand him, it gives him a focus point as you stand him and sort out legs tail etc, esp helps with a pup with a short attention span, of course in the show ring you can not be the dogs attention as you are not in front of the dog and don’t want it turning its head to focus on you. In a show ring a dog has to stand still and not move a muscle for a time whilst a stranger moves around then and touches then, and if a treat keeps your dogs attention in a noisy place with hundreds of dogs, people and fun smells around then fine.

But at obedience we don’t use treats with the older dogs, with pup yes as a reward whilst learning but then treats get fazed out as the dog understands what you are asking of them, and gets replaced with praise.

But don’t forget every dog is different and takes a different time to learn things, some are food orientated and some work better for a toy or just a simple praise from you. If you have a food orientated dog then there is nothing wrong with using a treat to encourage the desired behaviour from your dog. Esp if as a handler you are not clear with your praise which is exactly why clickers were invented as the tone doesn’t change depending on mood.

 

[EAST KENT]

You wouldn't believe some of the goings on in the GSD world, I think Jilly Cooper is going to use it as a background for her next book.

If the day gets tedious it is fun to take a notebook and pen,look official and stand near the GSD ring... it has the same effect as a police car doing a steady 70mph on a motorway.