Once a rearer, always a rearer?

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trotter259

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Is this true?

My horse has started rearing when lunging and leading. He has only just started doing this in the past month or so, but it's worrying me.

I've had him 7 months, and for those 7 months he has been off work. I bought him in a very sorry state. His back was completely shot, as they had been riding him in a broken saddle for a year! He looked like a hat rack, and was full of worms.

Now, I am wondering if this is just over excitement or whether it is a behavioural issue?!

He is an absolute gentleman to handle, wouldn't hurt a fly, but as soon as a saddle goes on, he's a rearing beast! He isn't always like it though. We can go for weeks of him being a complete angel and then one day, he just flips out!

I had the saddle fitter out last Friday to fit my new saddle, but unfortunately it was too long for him, so am awaiting my new one to arrive.

I hate winter because I only have weekends to do work with him. I just don't know what to do. Whether to use a calmer supplement on him and see if that works.

I'm thinking the reason for him being so skinny was because he may have done this before and they were too scared to feed him the correct amount and have him act like this. I am fighting a losing battle with him.

Any advice gratefully appreciated.
 
In my experience yes. Some horses will all have an avasion technique or will do something when frightened. Some like to bolt, some rear and some spin etc. It takes a lot of hard work to get them through it but its always there IMHO.
 
If he's rearing when you put the saddle on, and he was ridden in a broken saddle for a year, I would imagine he's remembering the pain he used to be in from the saddle. He may also be feeling better in himself. As he's only been doing it a month I'd persevere for a while and see if you can work him through it. Get him checked out by a physio/chiro and make sure there are no niggles from his past, then give him a chance to realise the saddle doesn't hurt any more.
 
Sorry but I disagree, my TB was a professional rearer. Similar story, had a badly fitting saddle which caused back problems, which meant he was out of work and got way over the top. Took to rearing at the slightest thing, couldn't even get from the field to the stable without an incident.
Nowadays i'll happily let my 9yo son lead him.
It took a long time and some professional help but he hasn't reared in a very long time.
7 months isn't long if you consider that he had been ridden in a broken saddle, his mind needs time to heal as well as his body, how about long reining to help build some muscle on his back?
I have a friend who does massage and she comes out once a month to harry, we discuss any tight spots that she finds and we're able to prevent any major issues from occurring.
If he needs consistent work and you can't manage it over winter, there's no shame in giving him some time off or maybe doing other things instead, we often play games rather than ride, it'll help build some trust and he may start to realise that you'll listen when he tells you somethings wrong and that he doesn't have to flip out to get your attention.
 
I second what Snipe says.
However, I don't believe in "once a rearer, always a rearer", I think that if you remove the reason for the rearing, and convince them that they're fine now and that there is no reason for them to play up, and that it's easier not to, they will give up the habit for good.
 
My horse was an inconsistent rearer and I think once they've learnt they can do it its always there even if they chose not to do it all the time.

I bought my horse as a poorly two years old and when he got healthy and later backed he became a complete sod. I gave him away as he was such a nightmare.
 
I had a really bad rearer up and over leading riding even tied up grooming he really didnt care about hurting himself or me he went to richard maxwell as nobody could ride him but he seemed like a well brought up horse i think badly spoiled he did get better but as soon as stressed would do it again after a year lucky for me went back to the dealer i bought him of with full refund she knew i had tryed everything just couldnt trust him but i do feel sorry for the person who bought him`as the dealer had full knowlegh of what he was like written statements
 
maggiesmum said:
Sorry but I disagree, my TB was a professional rearer. Similar story, had a badly fitting saddle which caused back problems, which meant he was out of work and got way over the top. Took to rearing at the slightest thing, couldn't even get from the field to the stable without an incident.
Nowadays i'll happily let my 9yo son lead him.
It took a long time and some professional help but he hasn't reared in a very long time.
7 months isn't long if you consider that he had been ridden in a broken saddle, his mind needs time to heal as well as his body, how about long reining to help build some muscle on his back?
I have a friend who does massage and she comes out once a month to harry, we discuss any tight spots that she finds and we're able to prevent any major issues from occurring.
If he needs consistent work and you can't manage it over winter, there's no shame in giving him some time off or maybe doing other things instead, we often play games rather than ride, it'll help build some trust and he may start to realise that you'll listen when he tells you somethings wrong and that he doesn't have to flip out to get your attention.
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I have to say that I agree with this post,and that once you are a certain as you can be that there are no 'back issues', the rearing is feedback from the horse which cannot be ignored.

If it was me I'd do lots of ground work, games, if you will, and do lots of stuff with his saddle on rather than ride.
 
BBH said:
My horse was an inconsistent rearer and I think once they've learnt they can do it its always there even if they chose not to do it all the time.

I bought my horse as a poorly two years old and when he got healthy and later backed he became a complete sod. I gave him away as he was such a nightmare.
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Its about changing the default setting, if its never properly dealt with then it will always be in there waiting to come out but it has to be removed as an option, BUT this has to be done in conjunction with treating the physical problem and training to teach them that nothing hurts anymore.
 
maggiesmum said:
Its about changing the default setting, if its never properly dealt with then it will always be in there waiting to come out but it has to be removed as an option, BUT this has to be done in conjunction with treating the physical problem and training to teach them that nothing hurts anymore.
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Yes I completely agree. my other horse went off to Richard Maxwell to cure his bad bucking and it turned out he was a physical wreck ( i'd just bought him and he must have been doped. Despite a 5 stage vetting I still got caught out )
Max said that even once he was physically well he had to learn that being ridden didn't hurt anymore.

The horse I first mentioned was physically fine, regular physio checks etc but he was too highly bred and he used his bad behaviour to show annoyance at being asked to work. He never would have stopped IMO it was too deep rooted.
 
Sorry, I didn't make it clear. I've not ridden him since I have had him. I've had physio's, chiro's and a McTimoney person out to treat him, there is no pain in his back whatsoever now.

I have done a lot of in hand hacking with him, in hand grazing, lunging, ground work. We play numerous amounts of games.

I may just leave him over the winter, and start a fresh when the weather gets warmer. I just want want this to turn into a horror story. This boy really is the nicest person and has had an awful life.

He's only 6 and at 4 years old had an operation in both of his stifles to remove bone, he had been diagnosed with OCD. At 3 months old he was taken away from his mother, and left in a field covered in lice, with worms, no food, no company and left there until he was 3.

I really do think he just needs some time, and love. We have a fantastic bond, and i'm not letting him go, but I don't want to injure himself or me in the process.
 
In that case, go at his speed - he will tell you what he is ready to deal with. Mark Rashid says - There is no such thing thing as wasted time with horses. and he's only young.
I've spent 4 years getting Harry to trust me and in that time we've done very little ridden work, i've had a few scathing comments about not doing things with him but I really believe that if I hadn't stopped and listened to him I wouldn't have the horse I have now.

I think if I was in your shoes I start afresh in spring, get him some massage and maybe get some thermal imaging pictures done just to be sure that nothing shows up in his stifles.

I'd love to see piccies ...........??? :D
X
 
maggiesmum said:
Its about changing the default setting, if its never properly dealt with then it will always be in there waiting to come out but it has to be removed as an option, BUT this has to be done in conjunction with treating the physical problem and training to teach them that nothing hurts anymore.
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I agree with this.
One of my boys is a rearer. He reared a LOT as a colt, then he reared as a gelding - he learnt not to rear in hand. Then we backed him and guess what he reared! Now he's learnt not to rear under saddle either. He's a good lad, he just goes up on his back legs as his default setting, but in every situation he's been told that's not okay and these days as a mature adult he simply shakes his head angrily in the situations that he would normally rear in. He is a "rearer" but he's never been in pain and he's always been firmly told NO, so it's not developed into anything thank god!
 
My mare has a terrific rear on her, fully vertical!! She was a very easy baby to break in, then got to her teenage years and pushed things a bit and started to use her field rear with me on board, needless to say it wasn't nice and I had to accept help, it was part of her napping. Eventually we got through it, and I've now had nearly 10 years of rear free riding! She only rears now if leading in and she is spooked (wind up etc) or in the field (playing), never with me on board, so no not once a rearer always a rearer IMO.....
 
No I don't think if a horse rears they are necessarily always a rearer. Like someone above said they do all have their default tactic for evasion but that doesn't mean it always has to be a full on problem.

In your case it seems as though the horse is reacting through either a fear of pain or association.

Even if it is because he is starting to feel well and take control it can still be helped through consistent handling.

I would get all physical checks done then get a couple of professionals to assess the horse, weigh up all the options then make up your mind. Good luck
 
Sorry I didn't see your reply about the checks you have had done.

In this case I would say it is likely to be down to him coming into his teenage years and asserting his authority.
I had it with my boy when he turned 6 and he certainly hasn't had a horrific past he is just a tricky little git who you have to be consistent with.
Get a good instructor who has experience producing young horses I wish I had done this sooner, also take negative comments with a pinch of salt and weigh up the situation yourself.
Be very consistent when handling him and safe lead using a lunge line whip and hat ect. Make sure he isn't on lots of concentrates that could be adding to the issue.

I think you should tackle it now you may find it gets worse in spring with the lush grass.

Best of luck.
 
I do think perhaps it will already be there, however with serious schooling and checks it can become very infrequent. Our horse was a rearer, he would rear at fillers/anything he took a dislike to. He went for 2 weeks intense re schooling. He has come back a changed horse, but the person who we sent him to re schooling spent time also showing us how to ride him through it, this has been equally helpful!

Therefore I think if you want it sorted find someone experienced that could help both horse and rider!
 
He may need to learn that he is not in pain anymore and he may need to learn that now he isn't in pain he must not rear.

I think it depends if the horse will always be a rearer. If a horse rears as an evasion tactic like nappiness I think it may always have a tendency to react like that and I would call that horse a rearer. If a horse rears once or twice because it is genuinly frightened senseless then I think that is something that will dissapear with confidence, experience ect. Also some horses may not have learnt it is wrong.

My old mare used to rear being lead, shod, loaded but she learnt it was wrong and didn't do it again. She reared 3 times under saddle in the 5 years I had her from a youngster but she also bucked once or twice and spooked and ran backwards. It was just something she needed to learn was wrong.

Current young horse's flight rection when I first got him was to do a duck, spin, run manouver when spooked. He never got away with it and now when spooked he will 50% of the time freeze and stare or if really frightened or taken by surprise he will sort of go on his back legs and kind of leap round 90 degrees and then freeze so I do think as they learn what's right and wrong their flight reaction does change, I'm hoping with a bit more maturity and confidence that my horse will stop altogether any leaping ect :)

I think like us horses have to learn what's right and wrong or how do they know? A horse will always react somehow, they aren't dead inside ;)

I think with yours if pain is not making him rear you need to change it so that when he is frightened, stressed, insecure that he doesn't rear. You prob need help with a professional to determine the cause so you can fix it. He may need firm handling or he may need more quiet, sensitive handling it's hard to say :)
 
Captain is a rearer, and yes I think it is a case of "once a rearer always a rearer".

However that does not make them unrideable, Cappy is perfectly rideable, he is just very nappy and will not go out alone. Therefore, we work around that and have a talented horse with beautiful extravagant paces who learns very fast.

We also have a horse whose default mode when scared is to rear, he has never done it with me and has never dumped Elizabeth (she does have an amazing seat now though :p) Please don't get me wrong he is not on his back legs regularly, only very occasionally when asked to go out alone.

Seriously I think it is , as with everything to do with horses, each is an individual and they all react differently. Cappy rears because he is scared, so we don't put him into situations that are scary to him. He still hacks out but never alone always with his friends, then he is happy. Some may say we are pandering but I want a relaxed comfortable horse not one who is being forced to do something he finds scary.

IMHO is not as bad as a bolter, it is up to each individual as to what they will tolerate and what they can't live with. Hope you get yours sorted.

FDC

ETA- nothing wrong with his back/saddle/ teeth he rears because he does not want to do something. Never rears when being lead,vet, farrier etc.
 
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I would say no!

My horse had three months box rest a few years ago, when he was a two year old, and when I had to start walking him out, he used to jump about and rear for all he was worth! Once he was back to being out 24/7 this behaviour stopped, and I broke him in last year and he hasn't reared with me once! However, he's a fairly downhill built horse, more prone to bucking than rearing, I've found that certain types of horses (the ones that prefer to go up and down rather than forwards!) do seem more likely to rear when put under pressure.
 
rearing an bucking are the result of something - be it pain fear lack confidence etc. it may be come a habit - that can be broken with understanding - and that what it comes down to . understanding why they are bucking kicking rearing - baby was battered before i had her for rearing spinning and bolting - never did with me - though a very stressed mare - than found out she was going blind - was that why she was rearing with her last owner???????? makes you think
 
No, I don't think so .... but only if you catch it early and deal with it.

Essentially, your horse is just trying a new trick - and if it works for him then he will remember, if it doesn't he will stop and think of another trick (or better still give in).

So, it is now for you to work out what to do - in a calm matter of fact way - so rearing isn't effective.

A few years ago, my horse started to bunnyhop if she wanted to go home ... it was quite effective as it worried me and she knew it. So, I immediately sent her away for training where they just rode her through it - and she crossed that trick off her list!
 
A horse that has been in pain will often rear in ANTICIPATION of a pain response, not necessarily as the result of pain.....once he has learnt that certain situations/circumstance cause pain, he won't let it get that far!

Therefore, a horse that has had a badly fitting saddle that has caused back pain rears, he learns that work ends and the saddle gets taken off and pain goes away. Over time he will learn to anticipate and will rear before the pain kicks in.

The saddle then gets repaired/replaced, back gets 'sorted', so in theory the horse should no longer rear. However, the horse has been rearing before the pain kicks in as a 'preventative' measure, so changing the saddle/repairing the back won't necessarily solve the problem alone. This is where it gets complex and solutions depend on the personality of the horse, his level of confidence, bond with and skill of the owner/handler. Basically, the horse has to be convinced/given the confidence/ develop the trust to carry on beyond his normal 'switch off' / rear trigger. The 64 million dollar question is how to do this......which of the many possible solutions to choose as appropriate for that animal. Get it wrong and you exacerbate the problem. My advice is to get a professional assessment; if you're not certain get SEVERAL assessments and see if there is a common thread before making a decision as to where to go for help. Expensive maybe but not as expensive as having a horse that you can't ride/sell on.
 
I would say yes.
BUT, if your clever you can avoid situations which may cause a rear and thus eleminating it.
That is after all the right routes have been taken to asume horse is not in pain and the tack fits ect.. I would never trust a horse who has been known to rear.
 
BBH said:
My horse was an inconsistent rearer and I think once they've learnt they can do it its always there even if they chose not to do it all the time.

I bought my horse as a poorly two years old and when he got healthy and later backed he became a complete sod. I gave him away as he was such a nightmare.
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About a dozen comments come to mind. :(
 
If he's a really nice person to handle etc then IMHO you are on to a winner. The only reason he will be doing this is because of associations with pain and lack of confidence and not understanding things. If he is a good horse on the ground, he means to be a good horse when you're on him, he just doesn't understand what is right/wrong and is scared and lacking confidence.

My horse was "a rearer" when I got him. He was in a standing martingale to tackle it. I never used the martingale on him but he has never actually managed to rear with me ever, though I have eye witness accounts from before I got him of it happening esp when he was asked to stand still. He's tried toa lot of times, you can often tell when it's coming and the best way to combat it is to not let it happen. Turn a circle, kick on, whatever you can do to stop it happening when you're on board, do it. I have seen so many riders being reared up with again and again sitting there like lemons, doing nothing to stop it happening. Do what you can to prevent it and he should soon understand it's not what he's meant to be doing.

Mine too had a terribly bad back from a bad fitting saddle which we fixed. Once he knows and trusts you, you will be fine. Even if you have a good bond now, it often takes time to build real trust, but it will happen, as long as you have plenty of patience and remember that he is a good person, just confused, you will be fine. It took about 2 years of serious patience for my horse to fully trust me because he'd had such a rotten time, but it's worth the investment of all that blood, sweat, tears and unbending patience when you get there! :D
 
Groom42 said:
About a dozen comments come to mind. :(
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Should clarify then that I had this horse for 6 years and he was professionally produced but even international riders couldn't do anything with him so it wasn't a case of he's a sod get rid, this horse had many chances to come good using every single assessment and change of routine in the book. He lineage was direct to two Olympic SJers, both of whom known to be sharp, and he was just too intelligent and difficult to do anything with.

I just put the comment quoted because I have explained his circumstances so many times it has become boring.

I gave him to a lovely lady who has the time and patience and wants to dressage him so he wasn't just discarded, he's gone to a loving home.
 
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BBH don't beat yourself up.You did the best you could and persevered longer than most would.I think the OP needs some serious professional help.Maybe wait until the spring and then start.Poor little soul.Rearing though, while the horse may not intend it to be, can be very dangerous to both horse and rider.
 
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