One Show - Bridleway?

[ester]

I agree criso, a right of way is public- what JRP is talking about on an OS map I would just deem them paths or tracks, not call them rights of way, we have a few.

 

[OWLIE185]

I suspect that the interviews were heavily edited by the production company to create effect as I have been involved in obtaining modification orders on existing routes and creating new routes many times.
The procedure is initially to carry out historic research on the route by visiting the local County Councils archive offices and also the various tax offices etc.
Evidence forms are obtained from people that have used the route.
The entire evidence is reviewed before making a formal application to the definitive map officer of the County Council which includes writing to all the landowners concerned. It is the landowner that is written to and not the tenant farmer. If it is not possible to determine the name and contact details of the landowner then a notice will be issued and posted on the entrance to the land and a notice placed in the London Gazette.
It may be that the farmer interviewed was a tenant farmer and his land owner had not informed him or he for whatever reasons wished to disregard it.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Why anyone would want to ride under that railway bridge on a horse is beyond me anyway

Where I used to live (Herts) I used to have to cross a motorway to get to the off road riding. You could go over the bridge or further along there was an underpass that took you under the motorway. A different route took you over a bridge over a railway. I never had any trouble with any of these routes, but with the railway bridge, if I heard a train coming I would wait until it passed and then cross the bridge.

 

[OWLIE185]

A right of way may simply be for a neighbour or adjoining property to enjoy the right of use of a specific track or route. i.e for instance to obtain access to their property or the rear of their property.

A Public Right of Way is a route which is recorded on the definitive map of the county council. This is the master map of all public rights of way within the county. If you wish to determine the status of a route then you need to contact the definitive map officer of the County Council. Some county councils publish their definitive maps on-line.

The link to the Hertfordshire Definitive Map is: http://webmaps.hertsdirect.org/row/row.htm

Public Footpath Only used by walkers
Public Bridleway Used by walkers, horse riders and cyclists (Only 20% of public rights of way)
Restricted Byway Used by walkers,, horse riders,, cyclists and carriage drivers (Only 1% of public rights of way)
Byways Used by walkers, horse riders, cyclists, carriage drivers and motorised vehicles

 

[OWLIE185]

Regarding Run to Earth's comment. She clearly has not ridden in an inner city or suburb where there are many bridges which horse riders would ride under As per Faracat I used to often ride under a number of bridges (Pedestrian, Undergound, Mainland Railway, Dual Carrigeways, Motorways and Viaducts) when I kept my horse in London.

 

[jrp204]

http://www.iprow.co.uk/index.php?page=page&catId=11#2

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If a private right of way exists across our land, does this mean that a public right of way cannot exist along the same line?
The existence of a private right of way does not automatically or usually preclude the existence of a public right of way, so the short answer is "no"; there are many examples of routes where private rights of way and public rights of way co-exist. In certain circumstances the existence of a private right of way might make it harder (but not impossible) for public rights to arise, but these circumstances are fairly rare.

What is the difference between a private right of way and a public right of way?
A private right of way is one limited to an individual or group, and usually connected with land holdings, when it may also be called an easement. It allows landowners and occupiers to get access to their land across land that is not in their own ownership. A public right of way may be used by everyone. The two often coincide; such as on farm access roads, when holders of the private right must not infringe the public right. Public rights of way officers do not deal with private rights unless there is some conflict with a public right, and otherwise queries about private rights should be addressed to a solicitor as it is a private issue rather than public issue.

But I stand to be corrected.

 

[RunToEarth]

Regarding Run to Earth's comment. She clearly has not ridden in an inner city or suburb where there are many bridges which horse riders would ride under As per Faracat I used to often ride under a number of bridges (Pedestrian, Undergound, Mainland Railway, Dual Carrigeways, Motorways and Viaducts) when I kept my horse in London.

No, I have not. I exercise my horses for their own fitness and my enjoyment. Riding around an inner city suburb of any description not only sounds an incredibly dangerous place to be riding my horse, but it also sounds thoroughly unenjoyable. I would not enjoy riding over a motorway bridge or under a railway bridge in that same vein.

 

[Orangehorse]

http://www.iprow.co.uk/index.php?page=page&catId=11#2

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If a private right of way exists across our land, does this mean that a public right of way cannot exist along the same line?
The existence of a private right of way does not automatically or usually preclude the existence of a public right of way, so the short answer is "no"; there are many examples of routes where private rights of way and public rights of way co-exist. In certain circumstances the existence of a private right of way might make it harder (but not impossible) for public rights to arise, but these circumstances are fairly rare.

What is the difference between a private right of way and a public right of way?
A private right of way is one limited to an individual or group, and usually connected with land holdings, when it may also be called an easement. It allows landowners and occupiers to get access to their land across land that is not in their own ownership. A public right of way may be used by everyone. The two often coincide; such as on farm access roads, when holders of the private right must not infringe the public right. Public rights of way officers do not deal with private rights unless there is some conflict with a public right, and otherwise queries about private rights should be addressed to a solicitor as it is a private issue rather than public issue.

But I stand to be corrected.

This is correct. We have two rights of way over adjoining land to reach some of our fields. You cannot sell land unless there is access to it. However, we cannot give this right of way to a third party. One is through a wood owned by an anti-hunting person. Although we can use it, we cannot allow the hunt to use it, which is a shame as it would be a very useful cut through for them.

 

[criso]

Jrp204

I have always heard the types of routes mentioned referred to as easements or right of access e.g where a farmer has the right to use al a private track to access land.

In herts I too have used railway bridges over and under as part of hacking routes, some on the roads, some in bridleways that go through woods. There was also a ride that took me alongside a motorway. Actually caused me less problems than bluebells and low flying pheasants.

 

[Gloi]

No, I have not. I exercise my horses for their own fitness and my enjoyment. Riding around an inner city suburb of any description not only sounds an incredibly dangerous place to be riding my horse, but it also sounds thoroughly unenjoyable. I would not enjoy riding over a motorway bridge or under a railway bridge in that same vein.

Horses soon get used to all sorts of bridges. We have a railway and at least 2 motorway ones on almost every route but never even give them a second thought. Although he lives just outside town suburban roads are usually the safest ones about. Good visibility, 30mph limit and plenty of room to get out of the way if need be. I wish our country lanes were like that instead of the blind bends and fast traffic. Bridleways, I wish

 

[OWLIE185]

No, I have not. I exercise my horses for their own fitness and my enjoyment. Riding around an inner city suburb of any description not only sounds an incredibly dangerous place to be riding my horse, but it also sounds thoroughly unenjoyable. I would not enjoy riding over a motorway bridge or under a railway bridge in that same vein.

I also ride for the same reasons as you. Riding in an inner city such as London is very much safer that riding along country lanes as there is a 20 or 30 m.p.h. speed limit and also the roads are straighter with no high hedges and verges so other road users can see you clearly when going round most corners. Also people in London love seeing horses to such a degree that when I used to ride in Hyde Park I would be offered an ice cream in return for a child being able to pat the horse! Riding in London is great fun as you can see so much more going on from horse back and the sight of ones horse normally cheers people up.

 

[RunToEarth]

Jrp204

I have always heard the types of routes mentioned referred to as easements or right of access e.g where a farmer has the right to use al a private track to access land.

The term easement refers to the type of deed it is, but it doesn't actually describe the contents - an easement could refer to a right of access as easily as it could refer to the laying of a water pipe to service a dwelling house. Easements are permanent and are marked on HRLR's title documents, which is why they often appear on OS maps. It does highlight the need to be able to read OS maps effectively if you are planning to use them to follow PROW.

 

[RunToEarth]

I also ride for the same reasons as you. Riding in an inner city such as London is very much safer that riding along country lanes as there is a 20 or 30 m.p.h. speed limit and also the roads are straighter with no high hedges and verges so other road users can see you clearly when going round most corners. Also people in London love seeing horses to such a degree that when I used to ride in Hyde Park I would be offered an ice cream in return for a child being able to pat the horse! Riding in London is great fun as you can see so much more going on from horse back and the sight of ones horse normally cheers people up.

I've ridden in Great Windsor Park - it's not for me. I had a lot of awful railway bridges when I was at uni and I can categorically confirm that I did not enjoy riding around them.

 

[ester]

but PROW are always green/pink whereas the others aren't so you can't end up on one by mistake by following and OS map (that comes with a key surely!?)

And yup 3 motorway and several railway bridges on hacking routes at home - some on quiet lanes/no through roads another couple on mainish B roads never an issue and if one enjoys the rest of one's hack I don't see the issue.

 

[RunToEarth]

but PROW are always green/pink whereas the others aren't so you can't end up on one by mistake by following and OS map (that comes with a key surely!?)

Which is why I said "need to read an OS map effectively" because the line I hear a lot is "Oh, but it says on this map it's a PROW"

 

[criso]

We had an interesting one where I used to livery.

Used to come out of the farm gate onto a road and ride along to a bridlepath, that's road as in tarmac, pavements, houses each side and even a bus a couple of times a day.

I looked into it as one of the residents challenged me. It was a private road but a public footpath, on top of that the farmer had right of access along this road which we as liveries inherited so we could ride along it even if others couldn't.

Other riders did use to use it as before the houses were built the previous owner hadn't said anything and the bit of road joined up two bridlepaths. You would think it was just a normal bit of road.

The new residents (ex townies) could see it was footpath on the definitive map and were trying to do something to stop horseriders as they didn't like the smell and noise. I've moved now but last I heard the BHS were trying to get a DMO on the basis of continuous use.

 

[chrisbeney]

Still, the BHS has no legal right to go around and label where riders used to be allowed to ride though, it's a council issue. Not surprised landowners are getting snarky if they've just slapped with a poster on a gate.

There was no labeling of the routes involved. It was a notice to the landowner following obligatory Wildlife And Countryside Act 1981 procedures where the landowner is not known.
What wasn't explained was whether the farmer was in fact the landowner, farmers often are not and then the notice is needed, but only after the Highway Authority has authorised it.
The procedure may change as a result of a bill about to go through parliament, but now is now.