One step forwards, ten back... literally! (running backwards!)

silvershadow81

silvershadow81

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Need to pick brains to try and stay one step ahead of new mare. Back, teeth, tack all checked.

She has always been really bad to mount. Been getting there slowly by the following steps:

Lunging and then getting on in corner of school from mounting block with someone holding her, she would swing about then run backwards, freeze then lurch forwards)

Could then drop the lunging and I introduced nuts to her, so she had nuts as she stood still then I would give her one once on

We then got to the point where she would let me get on from a mounting block, no help and stand until told to walk forwards.

all was well, then she started running backwards again once I was on....soooooo

I started getting on from the ground and when at shows having my OH on my other horse near me, then we would all walk off together. I have also been able to just jump on from the floor and give her a nut then ask her to walk off... This has been working fine for about three weeks, no running backwards

until today

Lead her out, she stood still while I got on, once on, asked her to go forwards and we shot backwards SO quickly.

It was calculated as usual, she flew backwards towards a 5 bar gate (about 10 meters away from where I had got on). I have just started carrying a whip to try and bring her attention back, as when she does this she takes no notice of my legs. so I tapped her behind my leg, clicked and asked her to walk on. She flew forward, spun 360 and then ran backwards towards a wall (each time she doesn't quite hit them, so she is well aware they are there)

I asked once more and she flew back once more along the wall to the gate and this time I didn't think she was going to stop, thought we were going through it. Sorry to admit that she had scared me by this point so I jumped off, grabbed a lunge line, lunged her for 45 mins, got back on and then rode out to where I had planned to an hour before.

I really do not want to get scared by this, but she is very sharp, and unpredictable. She is a very intelligent horse (if you can believe that!) so I need to stay 2 steps ahead of her,

sooooo, what I was after was suggestions as to what I need to try, is there a trick I am missing? I feel like I have tried it all, it worked for a while, then she changes the game plan, so im needing to change mine. Don't really want to have to lunge before I get on each time.

sorry for the long post, thought if I included everything it may help to show where I am coming from

Thanks
 
How is she if you get on in a school? If she runs back when you are in a safe environment like that try getting on, letting her run back and then, when she stops, making her keep going backwards for a good 20 paces or more. Then repeat!
 
Gosh she sounds like she is giving you a hard time. When I had a nappy mare who delighted in going backwards I would also wait for her to stop and then ask her to keep going backwards until I asked her to stop.

Does she have manners from the ground? Is there any chance you can ride with a friend and be lead forwards to get her rolling in the right direction ?

Similarly does she long line nicely ? If she is fine on the ground and to work long lining etc I would still query why she resists having weight in the saddle. To me it doesn't sound like she is happy about something and I would personally want to investigate further.

Alternatively this could just be her trick and a learned behavior that has worked well for her in the past and she is giving it one last try before she resigns herself to the fact it no longer works!

One final thought once you mounted her did you give her her nuts this morning? Could she have been running backwards in protest to the lack of nuts ? I ask because my mare was tricky to get on and we did the if you stand still I will give you nuts and a pat. Once i dropped the nuts and just rubbed her neck she had a few protest refusing to walk forwards moments but soon gave in and accepted a neck rub would have to do!

Sorry I am not much help and I wish you well with finding out what makes her tick.
 
My lad did this when I had him but nowhere near as severe. I used to get on in the school, and in the end he'd have a nut for standing still, then a nut when I got on. First he went forwards, then when he stopped this he switched to going backwards. As we were in the school, I effectively jammed him in the corner so he had a fence behind and a fence in front, and he gave up. He just hadn't been used to standing still previously and needed to learn. However, he was absolutely nowhere near as bad as your girl, and I'd suspect there is more to it with her. Maybe you could try spacing out some 'mounting blocks' (stuff you can safely get on from) about the place, and get on/get off during your schooling sessions with nuts each time or something - get her used to it.

Good luck, I found it extremely frustrating so know how you feel!
 
Thanks peps!

FYI this was her, taken at a local event after I had just got on and she had a two minute episode! You can see how she stands she is ready for another: http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=20275&d=1378906655

I do like the idea of forcing her to continue backwards, I will certainly try this in the arena although I purposely haven't taught her rein back, so am not too sure how I will get on asking her to continue going back. When she does it, she is usually staring at something in the distance, for a very sensitive horse, not even big kicks get her attention back. I literally have to sit there wait for her 'brain' to engage again and ask her to go forward, which she sometimes does, and sometimes has another backwards stint.

With regards to manners, she is very sweet but lacking in confidence. If you are putting on boots and she hears something outside stable there is no hesitation to walk over you to get to the stable door.

When grooming / tacking up she sometimes swings her head round to threaten to bite (if she is in a mood) sometimes she gets my jacket and she dashes backwards as if anticipating being told off. I usually ignore all this behaviour, as its not too much of an issue, but the flying backwards is weeks being absolutely fine, I just feel as though its come full circle again and we are back at the start.

I don't think it is a weight in the saddle issue as she goes days/ weeks and is absolutely fine. Also, today, after a lunge, she was as good as gold with me getting on, waited to be asked to move on, and moved forwards quietly.

So, am I wise to teach her rein back, so I can force her to keep going backwards? This wont take her long to pick up if I do, just don't want her to then start doing it more?!
 
Must be something in the air today. Tacked my boy up this morning, lead him out of stable he planted in yard then reversed with me holding his reins straight into a wheelbarrow panicked as couldn't get his footing ended up on his knees then scrambled across floor on his feet but lay down if that makes sense until he flopped on side and just lay there until undid girth.
Thankfully he had boots all round and hasn't even got a scrape. Tacked back up led out 10mins later all fine. Didn't ride but just needed to finish on good note.
No suggestions for yours sorry.
 
jemima*askin said:
How is she if you get on in a school? If she runs back when you are in a safe environment like that try getting on, letting her run back and then, when she stops, making her keep going backwards for a good 20 paces or more. Then repeat!
Click to expand...

Echo this - at a Mark Rashid clinic my horse ran back when he was supposed to be having his back checked. Dr Dave said "He wants to go back - so let him. And then make him - he will regret that decision". And thus far we have never had running back as an evasion ever again.
 
silvershadow81 said:
When grooming / tacking up she sometimes swings her head round to threaten to bite (if she is in a mood) sometimes she gets my jacket and she dashes backwards as if anticipating being told off. I usually ignore all this behaviour, as its not too much of an issue, but the flying backwards is weeks being absolutely fine, I just feel as though its come full circle again and we are back at the start.

I don't think it is a weight in the saddle issue as she goes days/ weeks and is absolutely fine. Also, today, after a lunge, she was as good as gold with me getting on, waited to be asked to move on, and moved forwards quietly.
Click to expand...

This resonates with me. Is she difficult to keep weight on? Or does she do this when there has been a change in the air temperature? I wonder if she has a slightly sensitive tummy - think ulcers, perhaps, but not severe ones. I found giving my old boy - he did not have ulcers but was prone to chronic diarrhea if there was a slight change in food, hay from a different bale, the grass was wet, etc. - a good handful of alfalfa-laden chaff about 10 minutes before tacking up did quite a lot to alleviate the grumpy behaviour when doing the girth up.

And on the subject of girths, it is not pinching her, is it? And you don't have any untoward straps, bits of balled wool where she has sweated, or anything on your numnah?

Am liking the keep going backwards action, but as it's a seemingly sporadic issue, I wonder if there is a physical element which may not be present today but which she is remembering.
 
Just to say, if you try making her go more backwards than she wants - be prepared for a lot of backwards and have a clear space! My yearling pony and I went backwards nearly twice around the arena the first time I did this while trying to teach trotting in hand! After that it took significantly less backwards each time although it got a bit hairy when she decided to reverse up the yard towards someone's posh car.
 
Our first Appy used backwards as an evasion, until the day she ran backwards into a barbed wire fence, with an oil drum and a hawthorn bush behind it! She knew, like yours, that she could frighten a rider by putting herself and the rider at risk. The day I let her run into the fence etc. she decided that she was more worried than me and never tried that one again. She used to spin as well and one day nearly fell in the river, that day I lost all sense of self-preservation and made her turn and turn and turn, SHE then worried that she would go off the edge of the bank, again that evasion didn't happen again! So back her up until she hits the gate, the wall whatever (not anyones car though :D ) and see what happens next.
 
Thank you all so much for posting and suggestions. Sounds like forcing her to continue backwards in a safer environment may be the next step.

Old owners tried EVERYTHING, she was sent away to be sorted out but it ended up with her being bought back and told she should be shot.

I'm determined to try and get through it as she is SO talented. I think it is a learned behaviour which hasn't been nipped in the bud.

Shown my OH these suggestions and he is agreeing we will try the backwards thing tomorrow in the arena. He can then assist with pushing her backwards from the ground (as I do not want her learning any new tricks like rearing if I try and make her go backwards and she doesn't understand!)

Honestly, thanks so much for the posts! Nice to know im not alone and I quickly start to think its something I've done, got to remind myself that I like these challenges and it will all be worthwhile in the end! :-)
 
i would be speaking to the vet again, i would be wanting them to check her ovaries, run bloods for liver and kidneys and possibly look at checking for ulcers. if this has already been done i would crack on but if not i would want peace of mind that everything has been checked
 
Hereshoping said:
This resonates with me. Is she difficult to keep weight on? Or does she do this when there has been a change in the air temperature? I wonder if she has a slightly sensitive tummy - think ulcers, perhaps, but not severe ones. I found giving my old boy - he did not have ulcers but was prone to chronic diarrhea if there was a slight change in food, hay from a different bale, the grass was wet, etc. - a good handful of alfalfa-laden chaff about 10 minutes before tacking up did quite a lot to alleviate the grumpy behaviour when doing the girth up.

And on the subject of girths, it is not pinching her, is it? And you don't have any untoward straps, bits of balled wool where she has sweated, or anything on your numnah?

Am liking the keep going backwards action, but as it's a seemingly sporadic issue, I wonder if there is a physical element which may not be present today but which she is remembering.
Click to expand...

New saddle cloth, washed every week. Soft stubben string girth (to prevent any rubbing), I pull her front legs forward before getting on/ after tightening girth.

I do not think it is anything like this as it is sporadic behaviour, and I do not want it to become a habit
 
amymay said:
So no chance she ia cold backed then?
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Sorry AmyMay! I was trying to respond to all the comments, missed yours (sorry!!)

No it is not a cold backed thing. My other horse has that so I am familiar with it. With her I stand up and let her walk it off, but this is very different.

At events we walk her for 5-10 mins before getting on, about the showground to familiarise herself with everything to try and prevent new surroundings from being an excuse.

Once on it is just pot luck. Sometimes when I ask her to go forwards she just steps nicely out, other times it is a little rushed, but I am ok with all of those (and pat her when we get that), its the times I ask to move on and she ignores me, then races backwards which I need to nip out...... and today was just that little more dramatic!
 
twiggy2 said:
i would be speaking to the vet again, i would be wanting them to check her ovaries, run bloods for liver and kidneys and possibly look at checking for ulcers. if this has already been done i would crack on but if not i would want peace of mind that everything has been checked
Click to expand...

Old owners did go down this route and have her on all the suggested hormone things (at double dose) and it didn't make any difference. I am 99% certain it is not hormonal
 
I honestly would if I was closer to you! Its just because when I first got my mare, she reared at the mounting block, and once you took the leap of faith onto her, she'd canter off sideways. Yes she had all the checks done too, there was nothing wrong with her. So one day a friend was riding in the school bareback and I just wondered what my mare would do, so I put my BP on, and jacket on top, booted her all round and put my brave pants on. Walked her up to mounting block, walked up it, by this point she'd normally start rearing, she didn't, so I hopped on. She just calmly walked forwards. Rode her bareback for about a month after that, and reintroduced the saddle, and she has been fine since :)
 
Your mare sounds almost the same as another I know and have a bit to do with. She is insecure, we believe due to be hand reared. She has issues not only with mounting but also when being asked to do something she is unsure of. Tends to see backwards as the safest option. You say you have had all the usual checks done. Have you considered her seasons at all. Even if her saddle is well fitted, when in season it could be that your added weight is adding to discomfort on her back and ovaries....just a thought as have seen this happen before. Maybe a supplement would be worth a try as oestress etc not only help hormonely but also aid relaxing through the back when sore or tight due to seasons
 
Update: was all prepared for a battle last night. Went up to arena, armed with my man on foot

Got on and she stood perfectly still, asked to move on, she moved on, didn't rush, go back.... in fact didn't put a hoof wrong all night (frustratingly!!!!!!)

Thank you for all your comments and advice, I am certainly going to try pushing her backwards when she next does it. Have decided that if she does it when I am o my own then I will jump off and push her round an round backwards from the ground (so that I do not have to teach her reinback as fear she may use to her advantage!)

Have a good weekend xx
 
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