Opening a Livery Yard - Views muchly appreciated :-)

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FaldingwoodLivery

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Hi everyone,

I have recently had an offer accepted on a new house me and my husband are purchasing, the house includes a yard and grazing and I am intending to open a livery yard.

There is 19 stables all on a newly concreted yard, a well draining floodlit sand school, electricity, water, lights etc. We are purchasing around 6 acres of good grazing and i have the option to rent more land when/if the business gets busy enough. The yard is situated down a quiet lane with access to planty of off road hacking and is only about 10 minutes away from access to major motorways.

If there is enough business i would preferably only like to have part/full liveries. Just feel that that way i would have more control over what goes on around the yard, and also keep yard politics (b*tching) down to a minimum. However after doing some market research i think the demand for full livery is quite low and think i may have to consider taking on some DIY if needs be.

Heres where you guys come in, I want to know:

how much you pay for livery
exactly what is included in the price
what could your YO do to improve the livery service
and also what are your main priorities when choosing a livery yard.

Im expecting a lot of "Don't do it!" and "You are mad" replies but if this is your answer then please don't bother posting. Am looking for constructive comments only please :-)
 
Hi,
I think it would depend on how many horses you will be keeping there. With 6 acres I wouldn't want to keep more than 3 horses on it so you can maintain good quality year round grazing. For me, opening a livery (facilitys and no b****ing sounds fab!) would depend on the ability to get access to more land.
Good luck with your house move, exiting!
 
If you don't think you will have enough demand for full livery why not offer a sort of almost DIY service? Hay and bedding included, pre-prepared feeds and nets put in first thing, rug change and turn out included but nothing else? It would appeal to a lot of people and would mean you would have control over some of the things that most commonly cause friction. You could offer top up services on an ad hoc pay as you go basis too.

Consider a mon-fri full livery weekend part/diy arrangement too, as this can be a way for clients to save on the cost of full livery but get more services than diy and is also popular.
 
Hey, good luck to you! Something I would love to do given half the chance. I think you are right to try to get full and part liveries, should give you a better income and be abl to keep your yard the way you would like it to be. I have run a livery yard in the past and there were a couple of DIY liveries whose owners very rarely came up and I ended up feeding, watering etc purely out of concern for the horses. I am not suggesting that all DIY livery owners are like that, far from it! I keep my horse at DIY on a large yard near Leeds. We have good facilities inc indoor and outdoor schools, heated rug room (well sometimes heated but certainly better than not all), good access for off road hacking, all year turnout (24 hrs for few months in better weather) with only 3 or 4 horses per field and free parking for trailer/lorry. All our straw and haylage is included in the livery price of 156 pounds per month. Can be annoying if the quality of the straw or haylage isn't good but touch wood, quality has been pretty good this winter. We can also pay for the yard staff to do extra jobs inc turn out, bring in, muck out rug changes which is really handy and not expensive (1 pound for TO and BI).
All year turnout, good hacking and a good riding arena would be my main priorities but I think a friendly well run yard with horses looking well looked after and happy is a big attraction.
 
Echo glosgirl re the amount of grazing. 6 acres isn't really very much; if you fill 19 stables you would need somewhere in the region of 20-30 acres.

Answering your questions (I had mine in DIY/grass livery over the winter)
Grass livery = £10 per week per pony - just grazing
DIY livery = £25 per week for horse for stable and grazing
YO had hay, haylage (huge bale) and straw (large round bales) on site for purchase
The yard was a new livery yard so facilities non-existent at the moment but they are hoping to build these as and when they can afford it! It suited me but if I was going to be there on a permanent basis some sort of schooling area would be good as I have youngsters but a school is "on the cards".
Don't forget, though, you will need planning permission for a livery yard and some councils are a bit twitchy about this. I know of one potential yard near me (which would have been fabulous if they could have opened it) which was refused PP because of the perceived increase in traffic in the lane :(
 
glosgirl said:
Hi,
I think it would depend on how many horses you will be keeping there. With 6 acres I wouldn't want to keep more than 3 horses on it so you can maintain good quality year round grazing. For me, opening a livery (facilitys and no b****ing sounds fab!) would depend on the ability to get access to more land.
Good luck with your house move, exiting!
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theres a seperate pony paddock (restricted grazing) of around an 1/2 and acre which im intending to use for my little girls pony, i havent got a horse at the mo so the grazing would be entirely for liveries. even if i could get 3 at full livery it would bring me in a pretty decent income ;) cant see renting the extra land (22acres) being a problem as the current owner already rents it. just didnt want to commit to it if the demand for my yard wasn't there
 
Katt said:
If you don't think you will have enough demand for full livery why not offer a sort of almost DIY service? Hay and bedding included, pre-prepared feeds and nets put in first thing, rug change and turn out included but nothing else? It would appeal to a lot of people and would mean you would have control over some of the things that most commonly cause friction. You could offer top up services on an ad hoc pay as you go basis too.

Consider a mon-fri full livery weekend part/diy arrangement too, as this can be a way for clients to save on the cost of full livery but get more services than diy and is also popular.
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was considering this! thought maybe a tailor made plan for each owner would be a good idea. A base cost for grazing and stable with extras charged at a set price, that way it can be altered to suit everyones needs. think most owners would find this very appealing?
 
Faithkat said:
Echo glosgirl re the amount of grazing. 6 acres isn't really very much; if you fill 19 stables you would need somewhere in the region of 20-30 acres.

Answering your questions (I had mine in DIY/grass livery over the winter)
Grass livery = £10 per week per pony - just grazing
DIY livery = £25 per week for horse for stable and grazing
YO had hay, haylage (huge bale) and straw (large round bales) on site for purchase
The yard was a new livery yard so facilities non-existent at the moment but they are hoping to build these as and when they can afford it! It suited me but if I was going to be there on a permanent basis some sort of schooling area would be good as I have youngsters but a school is "on the cards".
Don't forget, though, you will need planning permission for a livery yard and some councils are a bit twitchy about this. I know of one potential yard near me (which would have been fabulous if they could have opened it) which was refused PP because of the perceived increase in traffic in the lane :(
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this was one of my concerns too, have checked into it though and all the relevant permissions are in place as the current owner ran it as a DIY yard before she moved out
 
Five day livery is very popular round us - a lot of people are too busy with work etc to do anything but ride in the week but quite enjoy messing around with their horses at the weekend! It also brings their costs down too.
You would need to sort out whether horses are to be turned out during the week, whether you are to exercise or what time their owners are coming up - a white board or test message system is useful for this.
Our YO does feed at the weekends, so that all the horses (including his) are fed at the same time but everything else is up to us.
This would give you a bit of freedom at the weekends too - one word of caution is that a livery yard can be a big tie and quite demanding especially if you've got a family. It's good to have some time off!
 
I think DIY with assistance as suggested above and then a Full Livery option for holidays/illness is a great idea. It's a good idea to supply the hay/straw otherwise you may get it pinched!
To add to that I would have another tarrif for 'emergency' cover as I used to run this type of livery and some people will text you at 7pm as you are eating your supper to say 'stuck in traffic, can you muck mine out/bring in please!'
If you charge a little extra for unscheduled assistance it ensures that it really is a genuine difficulty rather than just can't be bothered if it's raining! If it's a genuine problem you don't mind going back out anyway.

Just reading back through my post sounds like I didn't trust my liveries much! I had some lovely liveries but you have to take in to account the few that take the mick, and if you have some clear bounderies in place from the start then you will save yourself an awful lot of trouble later on!

Good luck!
 
I am on assisted DIY.

I have the mornings done during the week, fed and turned out, or put in the school for a leg stretch and skipped out. In winter they are bought in and given hay and their ball so they are not left hungry if I don't get up until late. This livery is excellent for those who have to work and are not that close to the yard.

Weekends I sometimes have mornings or evenings done - the yard is a 30 mile trip so it is easier and cheaper for me to pay for one end of the day to be taken care of, but often will spend most of a Saturday up the yard and having a long hack so do everything.

I also have full livery on Wednesday and Fridays so I can either work late or have some time with my OH doing something other than horses. YO also does holiday cover and full livery should my job be very demanding when I need it.

For me, this flexability is what I really value. I always try to give plenty of notice if I require extra livery, but on the very rare occasion, I have rang and asked could he do full livery, ie an emergency with the system at work means I won't be leaving work until gone 10 pm.

I source my own hay, bedding and feed, and I have a nice big storeage area, enough to store 30 bales of hay for my two. We have a secure tack room.

Facilities are a 20 x 40 indoor school. Grazing is good for the area - 24 x 7 from May to October and four days a week out in winter - any less t/o would have me seeking another yard. We can be up there as early or late as we wish - again restricted hours would really put me off as on show days I can be leaving at 5.30 am, and if work has dragged, can be leaving the yard at anything up to 11 pm, and rarely leave before 9.30 - 10 if I am having to ride and do both of them.

I pay £30 per horse per week and then livery charges on top which vary depending on my needs.
 
foxy1 said:
Just reading back through my post sounds like I didn't trust my liveries much! I had some lovely liveries but you have to take in to account the few that take the mick, and if you have some clear bounderies in place from the start then you will save yourself an awful lot of trouble later on!

Good luck!
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definately considered this! contracts with EVERYTHING wrote down (yard rules/prices/extras etc) are definately going to be in place
 
On my yard I pay £20 per week for stable and field, then £12 per week for straw (less in summer when they are out 24/7) and £1-2 per day for haylage. Then I just pay for any extras I need. So during the week YO feeds and turns out for me in the morning but I do everything at the weekend. If I'm away for work or holiday I switch to full livery and if I'm off work then I do DIY. It works out perfectly because the YO is so flexible and I always know that if I'm not there after work at my usual time she'll bring in and give a hay net for me.

The most important thing for me is:
1. My horse is safe and happy
2. I can trust the people who handle him on the yard when I'm not there
3. No bitchiness

Then I'd want a school, all year turnout even if it's just a few hours a day and good storage space. We've got an individual locakble tack room for each stable so you can keep everything tidy and nothing goes walkabout.
 
To be honest you will not make a lot of money out of three full liveries, by the time you pay business rates (which will be on all 19 stables and facilities), insurances, water rates and electricity (which will be business tariffs as well), there wont be a whole lot left on top of the day to day expenses to keep the horse.

You really need to draw up a business plan and include all the extras that can happen into it, and set your prices from there. The unseen overheads really add up each month. My business rates are £12 per stable a week, so charging £20 for DIY I would end up losing money.

Best of luck with it all.
 
The 12 stall barn where I am still has 3 empty boxes since opening last November. It has good facilities - all year grazing, hot wash box, 2 schools 20 x40 and a 20 x 65 flood lit schools, off-road hacking and offers part, full and training livery. There doesn't seem to have been much demand but maybe that will change over the spring.

Maybe you should see what else is on offer in the area first and see where the gap is in the market - if there is one. I don't think it is and easy way to make money though.
 
A yard i was on did DIY at £25 p/wk. For this you got indoor lodden stable, own field with electric fencing, 2 outdoor schools (one sand and a huge rubber one with full set of showjumps), indoor school, lunge pen and off road hacking around the land although there was very good hacking into woods just down the lane.

You could add services to this to turn it into assisted/part/full livery. Daily costs for turn out/bring in was £2.50, feed and hay £2, muck out £3, lunging £5, waiting with vet/farrier £8 and so on. If you had the services regularly there was a discount and there was no extra cost for weekends so long as the services were booked before 3pm Fri. Bedding and hay could be bought from the yard or you could get your own.

Aside from all that it was a nice enough yard, good price for all the facilities and fortnightly yeard meetings were held to keep u up to date with goings on or if there were any problems. I left as i got my own yard as my youngster could not tolerate being on a big busy yard.
 
I would love to open my own livery yard but I dont see it ever happening :(

Im on a small yard, just 6 horses including yard owners, one girl is on full and the rest of us are DIY with assisted charged at a daily rate of £4.50 if we need it, which does come in handy sometimes.

For £30 a week I get my stable, field, he is given his pre-prepared breakfast and turned out for me weekdays and I do the rest. We get charged for haylage on top of that as YO orders bales in for the yard. Going to order my own in after the summer though.

I much prefer a smaller yard and we all get on really well and help each other out by bringing on for each other in the evenings. I am so grateful for a yard where there is no bitching and arguing - its bliss. And I left a huge yard with great facilities for it too but its been totally worth it.
 
To answer your questions, here is what i currently have:

how much you pay for livery - £20 per week per horse

exactly what is included in the price - stable and own field, unlimited use of indoor school. Hay and straw is available to buy but i get it delivered as its much cheaper. I can have 24hr turnout if i choose.

what could your YO do to improve the livery service - Stables are not very good quality and fairly small for my 16hand friesian (there are several blocks of stables and i seem to have the rubbish block!!), yard is very untidy with farm machinery and building materials often piled outside my stables which is annoying but otherwise its pretty good.

and also what are your main priorities when choosing a livery yard - Price. Im on a budget so really needed a cheap yard. The use of the school wasnt a big priority to me as i mostly hack and the school is very small, but it was handy in the winter. Good hacking is important for me, also it being close to home and somewhere my horses are happy. I didnt want to go onto a big yard as i havent had my horses at livery since i was very young and wasnt sure how i'd get on with all the bitching that goes on, so i found a small yard where everyone keeps to themselves. Im not overly impressed with my yard - it looked nothing like it did in the advert!! But my horses are very settled and happy.
 
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It will really depend what you are going to offer and include.

Round here 5 day livery is popular (it's what I do) as most people work full time but want to have time with their horse at the weekend.
DIY can be a problem imo as a lot of the DIY liveries I have known over the years have tended to send any old tom, dick or harry up to do their horse when they've been unable to and imo, this massively affects the security of the place.

I think a tailor made service for each livery works in principal, but if the liveries were to get talking and one finds out one is paying less for this that and the other and someone else isn't getting x but is paying y, it may cause arguements? Idk.
 
I would def rent the extra land to go with the number of stables and do it full scale. Reason being as someone pointed out, it is going to be business rated and they dont care whether you use stables or not, you will get hit with business rates for all 19. So fill your boots with liveries!
 
I've just put my mare onto full livery as I've got a broken leg. I always thought I'd rather shoot myself than go back to livery after 25 years of having my own land and stables!

However, it is a really lovely yard. Immaculate, friendly and well worth the money (in my present situation). £410 a week, and I think it's individual turnout. Riding/lunging is obviously extra.
 
BayJosie said:
It will really depend what you are going to offer and include.

Round here 5 day livery is popular (it's what I do) as most people work full time but want to have time with their horse at the weekend.
DIY can be a problem imo as a lot of the DIY liveries I have known over the years have tended to send any old tom, dick or harry up to do their horse when they've been unable to and imo, this massively affects the security of the place.

I think a tailor made service for each livery works in principal, but if the liveries were to get talking and one finds out one is paying less for this that and the other and someone else isn't getting x but is paying y, it may cause arguements? Idk.
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I think she meant that she would have a list of add on services at fixed prices that you could select to tailor make your package. If all the prices are public then it won't cause a problem, but i can see that you would have to be careful about making sure you know what each horse has done each day and it could get complex! Especially if you have horses that have different things different days of the week!

However this sort of flexibility would really appeal to me, it would be great to be able to be DIY and save some money when I have time to do things myself but to be able to switch to full if we are away and part if hubby is busy with his business.
 
Are you mixing full with part livery by any chance? because the posts seem to have gone straight from costs of full to DIY with nothing in between. Part for me means the yard mucks out, rugs, turns out brings in, feed and hay. I am responsible for riding, grooming, tack cleaning. I am also there for vet/farrier. There is a list on the wall which shows the extras you can buy to top (clipping/lunge/school/hack etc etc) so you know what else you have committed to. Full livery to me means I only need to ride as and when I would feel like it as someone else is fully responsible for keeping my horse fit, clean and ready to go!
 
I pay £180 a month which is DIY, including field, stable, ad lib hayledge, 2 floodlit meneges and great hacking. Where abouts in the country are you?
x
 
I think it depends on how many horses she was planning to have. With 6 acres and 19 stables, I would be tempted to find out how much the other 22 acres are to rent.

If she doesnt want to employ anyone, then realistically she could only do around 8 boxes on full livery herself (especially if she is turning out etc for some of the DIYs).

If you have limited storage space, then I would be tempted to buy hay/straw in bulk and include that in the price (e.g. half a bale of each per day included in box rent - you can buy more at £x per bale etc). Then people only need some space to store feed/shavings.

the best thing is to look at what the local yards offer. If they are all DIY and there is little demand for full livery, then there is no point offering full livery. If you are going to be charged rates of e.g. £12 per box, I wouldnt even bother opening a yard (once you add in utilities, maintenance, running costs etc). However I believe that you can only really make money from part/full livery but you can only do that in an area where there is a lack of decent yards / near towns as more people will need it.
 
Before looking into what the punters want, check what the council want!

You will have to pay business rates and tax on the livery and they may not give you permission!

Then, 3 acres is no where near enough for 19 horses!!! You definitely need that 22 acres! And you won't fill the stables unless you start renting it - I'd certainly not touch a yard with only 3 acres!

Space for tack, feed and rugs is important, as it'll help cut down the b******g. Ours is sectioned off into same size areas and then numbered with our stable numbers.

We have a rule where there is "no interfering with other people's horses" which is a good one, although atm we have a system whereby Mum, me and my sister turnout 2 days a week, and another girl sometimes helps the YM at weekends. But it's nice then, cos as it's DIY, the YM will turn ours out because we've turned hers out (although, 19 liveries could get a bit hectic if you're running a system like that!)

Also, you'll need a system of hay/haylage/straw/shavings purchasing. Are you going to buy it all in yourself, and then sell it to your liveries? Or is it a free for all, and in that case, have you got somewhere to store it all when Mrs X decides to bulk by 20 bales for winter??

Lots and lots of little things, even before you look at livery prices!!
 
i think everyone seems to be getting a litte confused :o

have already looked into everything with the council where planning permission is concerned, and it already has permission to be ran as a business as thats what is has been for the past 5 years. also we would have to pay business rates on the yard even if it was just for personal use due to the recent changes in council tax rules for equestrian properties. something to do with the yard having a sepreate driveway to the house and so would have to be charged business rates instead of being included in the council tax of the house even if we just used it for ur horses. so this has been factored into the running costs of the house when deciding if we can afford to live there, basically were paying it whether we have liveries or not so it makes no difference.

i never said i was going to fill 19 stables with only 6 acres of grazing, the other land is available to rent and will be looked into when we get in the property.

i currently dont work and so am not giving up my job to do this, basically any money (if any at all :rolleyes:) we will earn from the liveries is a bonus and can be used to pay for the keep of daughters pony.

to me Full Livery means the yard looking after your horse 24/7 with food and bedding included in the cost. Part Livery being the same apart from no mucking out, grooming, exercising etc at weekends (but feeding and turn out/bring in still included) i think This is all the kind of stuff that needs making very clear in a contract as everyone thinks something different.

By all means i am not doing this lightly, i am intending to do a lot more research and costing before someone else horse even sets a hoof on my yard :)

was purely looking for everyones views about livery, prices etc?
 
At my yard we have full 7 day, part 7 day, part 5 day & assisted diy

I think full is about £440

part 7 is £400

part 5 is £340 is diy at w/e incl t/o&b/i, rug change feet pickout feed and hay feed incl pony nuts hi fi, hay/haylage, bedding attend to vet/farrier

assis diy is £160 incl mon-fri morning or evening duties (either give feed, give hay, rug change, feet pickout & t/o or b/i rug change, feet pickout, give feed and give hay) feed & hay not incl

I am on PL 5 day and we have a separate barn to diy's. No snobbery/ bitchiness but I can say that I think PL and FL are less explosive than diy!

Hope that helps!
Good luck and let us know how you get on!
 
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