Opinions on this dogs behaviour please

Dopeydapple

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I started walking an akita x sharpei last October, he was a very unconfident dog and pretty much shut down when I met him. Turns out he had been attacked by another dog as a puppy and hadn't really been socialised after it as the owners were scared of his unpredictability. His owner moved in with his girlfriend early on last year and she has always been a bit wary of the dog and has been bitten by him in the past (they think he was being possessive of his owner). My feeling with him is that he is extremely anxious which has been made worse by his owners lack of trust in him and a lack of consistency. The owners asked me to help them as he pulled on walks, couldn't be trusted with other dogs and barks excessively at people passing the house. Things improved quickly walking him and he has never really pulled with me, has been chased by off lead dogs both wanting to play and being more aggressive and he has always walked away from them with me. He is much more energetic and engaging now and although I always make sure to keep a safe distance from other dogs just to be safe I have never had a problem with him and his owners say he is much much better with them too. Today however totally out of the blue and with no warning he dragged me a cross a track to attack a retriever who was minding his own business. He got hold of the retriever and was not about to let go, the noise from the other dog was horrifying and its owner had to kick the akita in the face to get him to release. The dog then moved to the other side of the path with me really quietly and sat as if nothing had happened while the owner checked his dog which thankfully was unhurt. I informed the owner about what happened and other than muzzling him from now on am not sure what to suggest to them, he has been such an amazing dog for nearly a year but now his "mum" is back to square one of being scared with him and as she is 16 weeks pregnant is thinking rehoming might be the only option. Anyone got any suggestions or am I right to think an anxious mum to be and an anxious dog is just never going to work?
 

kimberleigh

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I would question how the dog was able to drag you across a path in the first place?

That to me isnt anxiety, not when the dog drags a grown adult over to a dog who wasn't aggressing simply to attack - which regardless of the fact that no injuries were sustained, still isnt acceptable.

I would suggest they get help from a behaviourist who is experienced in rehabilitation of aggressive dogs, with a view to the dog being able to be rehomed with their help
 
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CorvusCorax

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Agree with Kimberleigh.

To be blunt he's not doing anything atypical of that mix of breeds in the hands of the inexperienced.
Both are notorious for being hard to read and have guarding tendencies and can show same-sex aggression. I don't know why anyone would mix them.
Add insecurity to the mix and you've got a bit of a time bomb, I'm afraid.

He's bitten this woman before, she's pregnant, he's now attacking dogs out of the blue. Why on earth would she be comfortable around him.
 

CorvusCorax

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You must also ask yourself (as I assume a professional) who would rehome a dog like this with the background you have outlined amd the associated risk that would carry.
 

Clodagh

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As has been said there are lots of lovely dogs out there looking for homes. What does this one offer to anyone?
Dopeydapple, I think it is you I am thinking of, you encounter more troubled dogs than anyone else I have ever met!
 

kimberleigh

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I would say that I dont believe dogs should be PTS for dog aggression, and without knowing the circumstances in which he bit the female owner I couldn't comment on the reasoning/intention behind that...but rehoming would certainly need to be overseen by a professional (and not a general rescue centre, as they're usually useless with aggression issues!)
 

Dopeydapple

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Thanks CC, I always find your responses very knowledgeable, I do think that the owners haven't done enough to socialise him despite being told he needs it I think they have still been too worried about him, the way they described him to me last year was an extremely difficult untrustworthy dog, however I have never had a problem with him, even when dogs have shown aggression to him, he has always been easy to check even when he has wanted to chase a squirrel or cat for example so in terms of the dog I have known for nearly a year today was totally out of character, I feel really bad that an incident that happened whilst I was walking him may be the reason he gets rehomed but I know the owners have already been worried about him and the baby when it arrives so I think in their shoes I would be contacting the akita breed rescue, I'm just so upset that after spending time desensitising him to other dogs and he has been almost dig neutral since Christmas it has come to this and I know his "dad" will be heartbroken and I feel like I have let them down. (I will add that I walk lots of akita / husky / malamute mixes and a Spanish mastiff and have worked with lots of aggressive dogs successfully to get them calm and settled around dogs)
 

Pearlsasinger

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You must also ask yourself (as I assume a professional) who would rehome a dog like this with the background you have outlined amd the associated risk that would carry.


I have re-homed dogs in the past (inc Rottweiler) and I certainly wouldn't consider rehoming the dog in OP. Neither would I employ a dog-walker who allows herself to be pulled along by a dog hell-bent on attacking another.
 

CorvusCorax

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OP I think in your shoes I'd put sentimentality to the side and look at this in the cold light of day.
Bad breeding means there are a lot of dogs out there who just aren't wired right. They will never be trained out of that, only managed.
Think about the world we live in and the dogs that people want to have in their homes as part of the family.
There is a baby on the way. The dog has a bite history and has launched a sudden unprovoked attack on another.
He may be reaching maturity and the problem may continue.
If he is kept or moved on, either way, if something more serious happens and the authorities become involved, someone will have to stand over every action that was taken with this dog.
 

SusieT

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He has bitten people
He has actively attacked another dog on a walk without provocation ( akitas are masters are not showing they are about to ‘go’)
He is not a safe dog to rehome. He is not safe to be around children.
Unless they can own him and keep him in a pen and exercise him for hours then he needs to be pts and tbh I think he sounds like a dog that needs to be in private property only
 

Dopeydapple

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Dopeydapple, I think it is you I am thinking of, you encounter more troubled dogs than anyone else I have ever met!
Of the dogs that I walk / have walked the only problem ones have been the akita / malamute who hadn't been walked for 11 months as his owner was too scared of him, he is now no problem at all and she walks him herself confidently now and has also managed to fix his over exuberance in the house that had stopped people visiting, the very reactive collie that the owners had tried a behaviourist with to no avail who now walks calmy past other dogs as long as its not too close, and this particular dog who as I said although I have always been careful not to mix willy nilly with random dogs and have enough space from them that if he did choose to pull towards them had enough space to be checked and has always been easy to check so today was massively out of character. I don't walk any other dogs that would be described as having issues but do walk others that many reject purely due to their breed but all with no trouble.
 

Dopeydapple

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OP I think in your shoes I'd put sentimentality to the side and look at this in the cold light of day.
Bad breeding means there are a lot of dogs out there who just aren't wired right. They will never be trained out of that, only managed.
Think about the world we live in and the dogs that people want to have in their homes as part of the family.
There is a baby on the way. The dog has a bite history and has launched a sudden unprovoked attack on another.
He may be reaching maturity and the problem may continue.
If he is kept or moved on, either way, if something more serious happens and the authorities become involved, someone will have to stand over every action that was taken with this dog.
Thanks, I think if I put sentiments aside I would agree that he probably isn't suitable for rehoming, he is very sensitive and the whole rescue process will probably make his issues worse and at 8 years old with a history of unpredictable behaviour he may end up in a rescue kennel for a long time however none of this is my decision to make, I have suggested they contact the akita breed rescue who may well have that conversation with them, I feel in the right home he won't present a problem however he has had 7 years of being an anxious dog but has (until today) come on in leaps and bounds, I also wonder whether he is a dog that will ever be happy or as you say just be managed, I also agree that that perfect home may not be able to be found for him....
 

CorvusCorax

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It would be massively unfair to rehome a dog of that age with those issues IMO. And just as unfair to plonk a baby in the middle. It just sounds like stress all round :(
 

fankino04

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Sorry but I also agree with the pts, advice, I appreciate that you are probably attached to this dog and feel that aside from this incident he has been making great progress and seeming a happier dog but the reality is he clearly can't live in a home with a new baby and anxious parents, emotionally is unlikely to cope with potentially a long time in a rescue and is not a type that would be likely to be desired by many. I do wonder how one goes about broaching the subject with the owners though?
 

{97702}

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Sorry OP but I would seriously worry if I had entrusted my dog to a dog walker who allowed the dog to drag her across the road towards another dog. My dogs are not aggressive in the least, being greyhounds/lurchers, but I know by now that I ensure that I anticipate any interaction with small fluffies and avoid those situations - I would apply the same if I had dogs with aggression issues

I would agree with other posters who say the dog should be PTS - humans have let the dog down sufficiently that I think it is unfair to subject the dog to any further 'rehabilitation'
 

MotherOfChickens

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put it to sleep before it attacks anything else. my last dog was attacked without provocation by a dog that lots of people had tried to rehabilitate-mine a lovely family dog that had never hurt so much as a fly and who was minding his own business-that dog had dragged his owner over to mine before slipping its halti and attacking mine. It came to light it had attacked several dogs and the owner had had several people 'help' her with it. my ex used to operate on dogs attacked by other dogs and saw too many that ended up dead or ruined. no-one has the right to put other people's good dogs at risk like that, there's no point to keeping this sort of dog alive.
 

fankino04

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I think it's a bit unfair to make the OP feel worse than she clearly does over not having been able to prevent this from happening, this is a dog she has walked for nearly a year who has never challenged her or been especially strong yet given the owners experience with the dog she says she keeps him on a short lead when near other dogs and gives extra space, given the breeding this dog could easily weigh over 60kg and the breeds are renowned for not giving warning so how was she meant to stop him if he was determined to go?
 

{97702}

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I think it's a bit unfair to make the OP feel worse than she clearly does over not having been able to prevent this from happening, this is a dog she has walked for nearly a year who has never challenged her or been especially strong yet given the owners experience with the dog she says she keeps him on a short lead when near other dogs and gives extra space, given the breeding this dog could easily weigh over 60kg and the breeds are renowned for not giving warning so how was she meant to stop him if he was determined to go?

Simply because good dog ownership/control is all about second guessing what your dog is going to do, and acting accordingly. If my dogs do something wrong it is MY fault because I allowed that situation to occur, whether that is a fight between them, one of them splatting a small dog, whatever. It is about being a good stock person at the end of the day - you don't allow the dog to be in a situation that could go wrong

I certainly have no problem with the OP personally, I have no idea who he/she is or where they operate, I just know what I would expect from a professional dog walker
 

Pearlsasinger

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Lévrier;13836627 said:
Simply because good dog ownership/control is all about second guessing what your dog is going to do, and acting accordingly. If my dogs do something wrong it is MY fault because I allowed that situation to occur, whether that is a fight between them, one of them splatting a small dog, whatever. It is about being a good stock person at the end of the day - you don't allow the dog to be in a situation that could go wrong

I certainly have no problem with the OP personally, I have no idea who he/she is or where they operate, I just know what I would expect from a professional dog walker

Well said!

If you (one) are not up to the job, don't take it on. This dog may have behaved well for the OP for the last 12 months but when she agreed to take it on, she did not know that would be the case and should have considered whether she would be able to control it if it did decide to attack another dog, or bite a person, with little or no warning. I hope that she is well insured.

I feel very sorry for the dog, it had an irresponsible breeder who should not have put those two breeds together, it has had an irresponsible owner who neglected to train it properly and then has had a numpty who is frightened of move into its home, which is bound to make it anxious. The kindest act for it now would be pts.
 

rara007

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1. Muzzle train him, until he's happy with that don't let him out of the house. He can keep it on in the house for now if that makes people feel more comfortable.
2. I would not leave this dog with its current owner, but I would try to rehome with the help of a large breed rescue (the one we use) or akita rescue. Not my 'type' of dog but they are poplar companions in this area and in the right home there is no reason he couldn't do well. Any further human actual aggression and that's his lot up however.
 

planete

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At eight years old, badly socialised and insecure with a history of biting I would worry that the extra stress of being 'rescued' might make him even worse. Third party insurance will also be invalid if his aggressive behaviour has not been disclosed and comes to light in the event of a claim. The legal position of anybody in charge of this dog should he seriously damage somebody could be pretty dire in those circumstances. I cannot see a safe future for this dog unfortunately and I am not sure that, even when apparently rehabilitated, he would not one day revert to aggression given a stressful enough situation. On the other hand, we do not know what kind of mistakes the humans around him may have made to provoke/allow the behaviour and an experienced behaviourist working with a very clued up owner might just be able to pinpoint his triggers and turn him around. The odds of this happening are likely to be very slim though. In the meantime, a muzzle, at least in public, is a must at all times once he is comfortable with wearing one as rara007 advises.
 

fankino04

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OP you have my sympathies on this one, it must be very distressing for you. I adopted a large breed rescue dog a few years ago who came with a reputation very similar to the one you described in your post and have found that being in a home with confident people we have never had a problem with him. I think that given over the past year the dog has gone from shut down and not interacting to engaging with people comfortably, has stopped pulling on walks even in situations when many would such as random squirrels running down the path, and has been ignoring dogs and calmly walking past them I would have said that if not for yesterday's incident then many people would have considered the dog to be "rehabilitated". I mean how long does a dog have to be unreactive even in the face of aggressive off lead dogs before you can say that they don't have issues anymore? In relation to someone saying you shouldn't have taken on walking the dog in case this happened I guess that means probably no one should of, my OH is over 15 stones and very fit yet he dislocated his shoulder last year walking a friends rottie cross for them while they were on holiday as the dog suddenly bolted after after a ball that another dog walker threw for their dog, he was literally pulled off his feet by the sudden pull of the dog and as I said ended up with a dislocated shoulder as a result.
 

CorvusCorax

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We all make mistakes but there is an element of risk assessment here as there is for anyone who works professionally with dogs.
There are a lot of unknowns about this dog. Lots of 'they think' and guesswork and perhaps missed warning signs.
You can't truly rehabilitate a six or seven year old dog that has a lifetime of learned behaviours, especially if you only see it for an hour or do a day at most, and it lives with two people potentially undoing any good work you might be putting in.
I wouldn't say you could truly rehabilitate dog of this age with established behaviours in a year, no.
If a dog is under stress, it will always revert to the behaviour it learned first and people need to understand this.

I know people who thought that their extremely insecure, extremely dog aggressive dog who had attacked many others, was 'cured' because it could walk along nicely on a lead beside a small number of other, carefully selected dogs (who incidentally were always the type that are one step away from being asleep). Until the day it ran across a field, jumped a fence and ran into a car park to attack mine, who was on a line and walking along minding his own business and had poked his head around the gate to see who was in the field.
This is the type of dog which should never be given the benefit of the doubt. Attacking other dogs has worked for him, for many years, and this is why he continues to do it.

With regards to the ball-chucking, my dog is also ball obsessed, which is why I always carry my own ball and have it ready if I see other dogs and especially if I see someone using a ball-launcher, as I would be in the same position as Fankino's OH!
 

AmyMay

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Very difficult situation, and I hope OP that you won't be walking it again. I would imagine that your insurance is now void on this particular annual (fingers crossed if your being claimed against your insurers will pay out).

I think I'm probably in the pts camp. But I'm definitely in the 'it needs to go' camp.
 

Apercrumbie

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I think we are all in agreement that this isn’t an appropriate environment for a baby – it would be very unfair on both dog and baby. A conversation with a breed rescue is a good idea – if the dog will accept a muzzle then there is a small chance that he could be successfully rehomed. My optimism for that working is not high though, and I think the argument for having him PTS is one that I would be listening to and heeding.

One really does question why a) that cross came about – not a good one as others have mentioned and b) why someone who wasn’t very experienced with that kind of dog bought him!
 
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