Opinions please - Kick injuries to person - WWYD?

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mizzbiz

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If you got kicked by someone else's horse, would you expect them to pay your damages?

And the other foot...

If your horse kicked someone else, would you expect to pay their damages?

Damages defined as replacing riding boots cut off by paramedics, livery bills incurred because you/they can't look after your/their horses whilst recovering.

Fault could be argued at either side of the party given specific scenario, but interested to hear opinions and general consensus on liabilities/responsibilities.
 
Tbh no I wouldnt expect to pay/recieve damages although if my horse had kicked someone and their boots were wrecked Id probably buy them some new boots as Id feel bad. Horses are horses and accidents happen. I suppose you could stretch this to expecting the owner of another horse to pay damges if their horse kicked your horse, or ripped another horses rug etc. The list would be endless.
 
If I were riding past a person who was standing minding their own business and my horse kicked out, then of course I wold apologise profusely and pay for the riding boot. If that person were to not be able to work - then that is what insurance is for. I would fully expect them to claim if they lost more than I was prepared to give them.

If someone entered my field and chased my horse and was kicked than I would not entertain such notions.

Without specific details then it is a bit of a 'how long is a piece of string' question, depending on the circumstances.
 
No on both counts. If I'm close enough to someone else's horse to get kicked, that's my problem. Horses are dangerous, we should always take care around them and be aware that they can, and do, kick.
 
Red-1 said:
If I were riding past a person who was standing minding their own business and my horse kicked out, then of course I wold apologise profusely and pay for the riding boot. If that person were to not be able to work - then that is what insurance is for. I would fully expect them to claim if they lost more than I was prepared to give
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As Red-1 says, it really depends on the circumstances, as in this scenario I'd pay/expect to be paid.
 
Many years ago my horse kicked the yard owner's daughter and she had her boots cut off. I apologised profusely and offered to buy new boots but the YM who had witnessed the incident didn't accept payment as her daughter had used my mare's backside as an emergency brake by galloping straight into her when her pony took off with her.

I would offer to pay if it was my horse who did the kicking. If it was the other way round and some-one's horse kicked me I wouldn't accept payment. I certainly wouldn't expect to pay livery bills.
 
Sorry I don't mean it to be a how long is a piece of string question.

Horse is new, being led by owner through field. Other horses loose in field interested in new horse and owner manages to get pinned in a corner against fencing. Other livery helps to shoo the other horses away, and gets kicked by owners horse in the process (no other horses in vicinity at point of this kick).

Would you feel responsible as owner to cover or would you feel other livery accepted the risks by getting involved to help you? Horses will be horses and this horse is new to you so you weren't to know to warn them it may kick out. They're more experienced so despite claiming to have left adequate distance they clearly didn't as they were injured. It might have been you though had they not come to your aid.

Equally if you were this other livery would you expect the owner to take some level of responsibility or would you think **** happens and fork out 200 pounds for replacement boots on top of the 100 pound a week it's costing whilst you're crippled?
 
My first thought would be why is new horse being walked through a field of strange horses in the first place. Has the introduction phase not been done thoroughly and measures in place to protect both the new horse and the long term horses.
 
If I had asked the other livery to help then yes, I would feel responsible if my horse kicked her.

If I had not asked for help then I would probably pay for the boots if I had been in real trouble as I would feel responsible for getting myself into a predicament that the other person felt they had to rescue me from, but would not pay for any livery etc. I would feel that I had not handled introductions in the field correctly and would feel foolish.

If I had not been in real trouble, and the other livery had just come on in there uninvited, then no, I would not have any of the foolishness.
 
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It might not be an issue of what we would or would not do in any given situation. Liability under the Animal Act is defined as strict - that is why we all have 3rd party liability insurance. Refer the matter to the insurers. They'll sort it out.
 
AdorableAlice said:
My first thought would be why is new horse being walked through a field of strange horses in the first place. Has the introduction phase not been done thoroughly and measures in place to protect both the new horse and the long term horses.
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This. Sounds like just a kick to one person was very lucky. On the liability issue, that is why we have insurance, I would pass it to my insurance company and let them sort it out.
 
My friend got kicked like this - the kicker was insured, and although it all took an awfully long time, the insurance company did pay for loss of earnings and an additional lump sum for sundries (which would include the riding boots!).

If my horse did the kicking, I might feel "bad" and offer some form of remedy; however, if the person wanted cash for "things" then I'd have to refer them to my insurance. I don't have any cash!
 
Tricky. Personally in this situation as the owner I would call the BHS legal helpline pronto and discuss third party liability cover.
I would feel responsible, I wouldn't immediately admit fault or offer anything, but if Injured party could claim on my insurance I would make them aware of that
 
It really wouldn't occur to me that anyone should pay anyone else in this scenario. You walk into a field of horses and get kicked, it happens.

I have young, boisterous, curious and big horse. The owners of the other horses in the field often give her treats. Unsurprisingly she can now be quite eager and excitable when they try to bring their horses in. If they get kicked by her then there's no way I would pay anything, I can't be responsible for my horse's actions at all times when she's in the field - is that unreasonable? I should add she good mannered and well trained with me, but then I don't give her treats...
 
DOn't admit liability or apologise as this is admitting liability their friends may talk her into going down the legal route. Even offering to pay for her boots is probably morally correct but you could be lining yourself up for trouble.
 
mizzbiz said:
Sorry I don't mean it to be a how long is a piece of string question.

Horse is new, being led by owner through field. Other horses loose in field interested in new horse and owner manages to get pinned in a corner against fencing. Other livery helps to shoo the other horses away, and gets kicked by owners horse in the process (no other horses in vicinity at point of this kick).

Would you feel responsible as owner to cover or would you feel other livery accepted the risks by getting involved to help you? Horses will be horses and this horse is new to you so you weren't to know to warn them it may kick out. They're more experienced so despite claiming to have left adequate distance they clearly didn't as they were injured. It might have been you though had they not come to your aid.

Equally if you were this other livery would you expect the owner to take some level of responsibility or would you think **** happens and fork out 200 pounds for replacement boots on top of the 100 pound a week it's costing whilst you're crippled?
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It's a human error on their behalf, I would have not got close enough to a group of horses to be kicked. Surely you introduced the horse to the others properly? In that case I think I'd be dropping the lead rope and getting myself over the fence to safety, then returning once the horses had settled to take off headcollar. Might not be what everyone would do but I wouldn't be putting myself in unnecessary danger. Aplogies but no payments from me
 
ihatework said:
Tricky. Personally in this situation as the owner I would call the BHS legal helpline pronto and discuss third party liability cover.
I would feel responsible, I wouldn't immediately admit fault or offer anything, but if Injured party could claim on my insurance I would make them aware of that
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I absolutely agree.
 
To throw something else into the equation, could they claim on yard owner's insurance? It doesn't sound like a particularly safe arrangement.
 
If my horse kicks someone I'd expect them to make a claim - if I got kicked in that situation it would depend on how injured I was - I am self employed so if I can't work I don't get paid ...
 
AdorableAlice said:
My first thought would be why is new horse being walked through a field of strange horses in the first place. Has the introduction phase not been done thoroughly and measures in place to protect both the new horse and the long term horses.
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This. I would never walk a new Horse through a field with new Horses and expect them to stay away.
 
If the person got kicked because they chose to try and come and help when they were not asked to do so rather than leave the person get to get on with it then they have got hurt due to making the wrong decision.

Why was the person leading a horse through a field of loose horses that it had never meet before. It sounds like a high risk situation. Most people when introducing a horse to new field mates will turn out at the gate and not lead the horse through the field.

If the person has insurance they should ask to see if the other person can claim and if they can may inform the kicked person so that they can get the money.
 
junglefairy said:
It really wouldn't occur to me that anyone should pay anyone else in this scenario. You walk into a field of horses and get kicked, it happens....
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This is my thoughts. Presumably the person was 'horsey' and would have know the risks and how to minimise them. If I'd asked the person I might offer to pay for boots.

I think it's as much the person's fault who has a system whereby an accident like this happens. How silly to expect someone to walk a new horse through a field
Of loose horses!
 
well someone (y) was walking her or his new horse through a field of loose horses. They got into trouble, unsurprisingly, and someone (x) tried to help them. x did help them, and then got kicked by the new horse belonging to y. y's take is that x - as shown by being sufficiently good with horses to have saved y, should have been far enough from their new horse not to have been kicked. If I have understood the scenario correctly.
 
Frankly it was an utterly stupid situation to get into. God knows. If I was stupid enough to get into it I would take full responsibility for my own actions.
 
If that person had eg walked behind my horse in an otherwsie open area - no
If I had placed my horse somewhere somebody had to walk past it as a normal course of action - I would expect I might be held liable.
 
In this scenario I would expect no one to pay anyone else - the livery accepted the risk going into the field
 
If I was in a seriously dangerous situation and someone incurred an injury trying to save me from harm, I would offer to cover their bills or assume my insurance would do so.

I had a rotational fall and the horse effectively got cast on top of me. Another rider had to grab my mare's hind leg and pull her over. Obviously we covered her (luckily minor) injuries- she may well have saved my life.

If I was leading an anxious new horse, got into a bit of a sticky situation but didn't ask for help, and generally had things under control, and a well-meaning livery got injured trying 'help' I would not expect to be liable.

Same would apply if my horse kicked one of those well-meaning helpy people that always materialise at shows when your horse decides it doesn't want to go home.
 
If they are asking for money depending on the costs of the boots I might pay that otherwise I'd ask them for their insurance details and pass them to my insurers, let them deal with it. You may find even at raising the point of insurance they drop it.

I think both parties were at fault and responsible for their own actions. It was a disaster waiting to happen and lucky no one was more seriously hurt.

My horse is a complete gentleman, a toddler could handle him. Never put a foot wrong. When he last entered a new field at a new yard with other horses near by I couldn't hold onto him and it was safer to unclip and let them get on with it.
 
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