Opinions/Possibilities?? Thinking EPSM??

[little_pink_piggies]

Hi... have a horse going up to Willesley on Thurs, and just trying to work out roughly what it is I'm going to expect stupid as that sounds!

I've had Arthur since the middle of August, and when we bought him his breeder (hes 9 now) said that she had in the past been pulled up in a dressage test for him being lame behind, and although alarm bells sounded he sailed through the vetting...

I did 6 events on him (including the intermediate at Gatcombe) and a week before he was due to go to Aldon CCI* he tyed up quite badly... but in the weeks before that his dressage judges were picking up that he wasn't right behind and occasionaly he would "skip/slip" behind? He never bascules, but never has, and doesnt work to a contact and you can ony ride him in a really really soft rubber snaffle, like doesnt go to a contact at all... hes a big TB type and he does have several behavioural issues (napping pawing biting you when girth done up etc etc)

Anyway we put the tying up down to the fact that we had just switched to v high quality haylage and he had always lived out in the field and just given 1/2 scoop cubes whenever, whereas ours spend about 1/4 of the time in.

He's still not right, and although you wouldnt call him lame hes not sound, and i couldnt tell you where? Vet came out to see him (but to be honest knew it was going to be a Willesley job) and just muttered something about soft tissue injury behind the saddle, and checked for kissing spines.

Anyhow I've been doing some reading on EPSM... does anyone have any experiences of this and whether this sounds similar? Or indeed anything else this could be?

Sorry, it just completely puzzles me!

 

[lifeslemons]

Martha, good luck whatever it is. Have to see Arthur on the first week of March in the freezing cold! xxx

 

[LEC]

To me it sounds a bit like kissing spines. Pm christmas_derby as she will be able to tell you far more about it as her TB had it.

 

[little_pink_piggies]

hmmmm, i would just like to trust the vet (out of hope!) that it isnt!!! It's v intemittent and i thought kissing spines was more consistantly there as opposed to v intemittent? will PM her... thanks

 

[seabiscuit]

Martha does sound like this horse could have any number of things. Not basculing and not really wanting to work properly on the flat, and napping is a sign of Kissing Spine yes.
Also KS does severly affect the backend action.Owen looked odd behind before his op, not lame, but just odd. They dont want to flex the hocks properly and bring the hind leg underneath them when their back is hurting. Also Owen used to slip on a back leg sometimes? It felt like how I would feel like every time I go over my ankle, if you know what I mean?

Willesley is the best place in the country, if not the world, for diagnosing KS and treating it- so you will be in the best possible hands!! Will Svend be seeing your horse?

If it is KS fear not as easily fixed by the operation and he'll be back in work an aboslute superstar 3 months afterwards!

 

[little_pink_piggies]

thanks

did PM you but you beat me to it here!!

I think Olly is seeing him? but Olly has sorted pedal bones etc for us before and he seems really good

 

[seabiscuit]

Brill am sure that Olly will know all about KS too and if it is that will point you in Svend's direction. Could be something completly different to KS though!
Agh bloody horses hey !!

 

[Bossanova]

Definitely mention EPSM to them, it's not hard to diagnose. Sme vets are still totally ignoring it as a possible answer.

 

[kerilli]

i'd get a physio and/or a qualified equine massage therapist to him, i think. determine whether there's a particular area/muscle or whatever that's particularly tight.
skipping behind occasionally can be a horse struggling with the engagement required at that moment - i had a very genuine and totally sound mare who used to do it occasionally.
really hope you get to the bottom of it and it isn't anything terrible.

 

[Bert&Maud]

Quote: "If it is KS fear not as easily fixed by the operation and he'll be back in work an aboslute superstar 3 months afterwards"

Not all cases of KS are operable.

 

[little_pink_piggies]

we had stuart mcgregor out to him (i think hes more osteopath but hes pretty clued up!) and he reckoned behind the saddle area, which was the same as the vet...

We've tried to do all the suitable work to build up hind quarters with poles, gridwork, hills etc but it just seems to be getting nowhere and theres this intermittent lameness (i know i cant spell

)

thanks.. fingers crossed it's fixable and if it is KS it's operable...

 

[wistavon]

hi i have an ex eventer who has epsm. firstly dont panic the situation is easily managed. i feed him a no sugar diet,he has hi-fi lite,leisure mix and speedi-beat. with this i feed 1 pint of oil a day with a vitamin supplement. if you are competing you increase the oil to give your energy.you have to change your routine a bit as the horses are better out as much as poss but not on lush grass. also at an event dont leave them standing on the lorry or trailer try and keep walking them around for periods. when you massage around your horses muscles do they feel hard ? my horse was solid until the oil and now they wobble like a jelly.(fab) but please dont worry and do discuss it with the vet you can always try the diet and see if he improves and dont wory everyone said my horse would blow his top on all that oil but he doesnt have any of his old bad habits now. good luck.

 

[seabiscuit]

[ QUOTE ]
Quote: "If it is KS fear not as easily fixed by the operation and he'll be back in work an aboslute superstar 3 months afterwards"

Not all cases of KS are operable.

[/ QUOTE ]

They are actually. The problem lies in the fact that most vets, even the 'leading vets' don't actually understand or appreciate the benefits of the KS op, nor do they understand a) the correct way of how the operation should be done or b) how the aftercare and exercise regime should be carried out. So in reality, they write of many horses who should've been operated on, and wouldve been successfully operated on had they been referred to the right vets.

FYI,my chestnut in my signtaure was deemed 'completly inoperable he should be retired' but luckily I was pointed in the direction of Mr Kold at Willesly. He immediately recommended the op for my horse (completly different opinion to that of the other vets that saw him ) and my horse has never looked back since. He is a fully fit, athletic and a totally 'normal' horse that is about to start doing affilated competitions.

 

[YorkshireLass]

I have an EPSM horse!

EPSM describes a whole spectrum of difficulties! It IS hard to diagnose as the symptoms can vary so much between horses. I am sure you will have read the Rural Heritage stuff, along with the list of symptoms... The symptoms are 'pick and mix'!

A biopsy is invasive, expensive and inconclusive. Therefore most people with a suspected EPSM horse choose to use the diet therapy as a diagnosis. If the horse is NOT EPSM the diet will do it no harm. The EPSM diet is very good for ALL horses. If the horse responds to the diet after 6 months to a year then you have your diagnosis! Diet and exercise therapy is the only treatment for EPSM so you have nothing to loose by starting your horse on the diet ASAP.

If you need any advice on the whole EPSM diet and exercise thing (what to feed and how to feed it and the best way to manage the horse) just ask! It has taken me a year to get my horse fully functioning and recovering and a lot of trail and error was required. Touch wood I think I have cracked it now!

Many vets in the UK do not understand or recognise EPSM.

 

[JenHunt]

EPSM is relatively newly established as a disease/disorder in its own right - it was previously lumped in with tying up and azoturia - feeding vitamin e supplements can help limit the damage done by an episode.

switching to a high fibre, high oil and low sugar and starch diet can help to prevent the disorder too. this limits the body's use of the sugars that a broken down to lactic acid causing fatigue in 'normal' horses or an episode of tying up in EPSM horses.

Smartpak equine have some really useful articles online for mor einfo!