Opposition Buzz/Nicola Wilson rotational fall

There's another thread about this. I believe both are ok based on FB/ Twitter updates.

That's the first time I've seen the video. You can hear the airjacket go off after the fall as she crawls away. I really don't understand how Exos failed to take off after seeing falls like this.

Hope they both continue to make speedy recoveries.
 
That is really nasty. Poor Nic and Buzz.

QQ - the air jacket goes off after the fall, does it not, due to Nic still being in the saddle as it were? Therefore, it really did 'nothing' to help??
That doesn't often happen does it?
 
Apparently he only got 1 back foot up onto the step, hence just couldn't push off with anything like his normal power. Poor Dodi. They are both absolutely fine apparently. Thank heavens.
I posted this vid elsewhere already, and someone else pointed out what I had missed, the time when the airjacket goes off (you can hear it very clearly.) It prompted an interesting discussion, apparently the airbags they use in motorbike racing "have motion sensors in and once they go past a certain point they go off. If you watch the moto gp you can see the little lights flashing on their arm on the grid to tell them its live".
that sounds a LOT more reliable than a lanyard that can fail etc.
I was very concerned by the bit of fence breaking off like that (and ending up on top of the horse fgs!) and especially that it left a hole in the fence. The consequences if a horse fell at a steeper angle and got a leg in a hole don't bear thinking about. I've already forwarded the vid to a couple of people to look into.
 
Ooft that wasnt pretty. Glad they are both ok. Im a huge fan of the combination and quite shocked to see OB fall like this.....just shows how easily it can happen. He is an absolutely fantastic horse IMO.
 
I don't know the physics of it and I'm aware it could have been much worse BUT I think it was beneficial that THIS fence gave/ broke.

If the fence was more solid surely the angles would have resulted in a more vertical rotation and possibly more force behind the fall?

I'm probably missing the point ( as usual!) but what is the aim of forwarding the video? To whom why in the hope of achieving what?
 
Fools Motto said:
That is really nasty. Poor Nic and Buzz.

QQ - the air jacket goes off after the fall, does it not, due to Nic still being in the saddle as it were? Therefore, it really did 'nothing' to help??
That doesn't often happen does it?
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It is one of the large arguments against air jackets. They are marketed largely to protect the rider in rotational falls but in many cases the rider has already hit the ground before they detach from the saddle...

PS. In OB's entire BE career (results from 2002) he's only ever had 4 stops/run outs XC. It's a phenomenal XC record! Just counted it up and that's from 80 XC starts!
 
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TPO said:
I don't know the physics of it and I'm aware it could have been much worse BUT I think it was beneficial that THIS fence gave/ broke.

If the fence was more solid surely the angles would have resulted in a more vertical rotation and possibly more force behind the fall?

I'm probably missing the point ( as usual!) but what is the aim of forwarding the video? To whom why in the hope of achieving what?
Click to expand...

Because a fence that can break like that and leave a hole that a leg could potentially go down... do I really need to say more?
Maybe you don't remember the fall (v experienced horse, had to be pts) that led to a certain type of fence design being totally banned. :( :( :(

I forwarded it to a couple of people I know, who know the powers that be, who can look into it if they choose to. I wasn't sure if this video was common knowledge at the time, and I think only this angle would show the hole etc so clearly.
 
LouisCat said:
It is one of the large arguments against air jackets. They are marketed largely to protect the rider in rotational falls but in many cases the rider has already hit the ground before they detach from the saddle...

PS. In OB's entire BE career (results from 2002) he's only ever had 4 stops/run outs XC. It's a phenomenal XC record! Just counted it up and that's from 80 XC starts!
Click to expand...

I think air jackets are really for the little falls where you get chucked off. The bruised/ broken ribs, nasty bruising and things are what really gets you for time off, which in the scheme of things is probably more pressing.

If you did a risk assessment, the risk you could mitigate would be the smaller injuries. The big ones from rotational falls, no matter what you did, would still end up being in the amber and therefore you need to go back stages. I did a risk matrix for it a while ago as I was bored and revising for a management module and those were my highly professional conclusions :D

I dislike that air jackets market as rotational fall savers. They're not. Short of the Exo, nothing is going to stop you from being smushed, although if the air jacket goes off it will lessen the smushing.
 
The hole is after the fall is it not? When he lands OB's a leg hits the camera side of the fence, no?

Yes I remember the express eventing fall when the fence gave.
 
TPO said:
The hole is after the fall is it not? When he lands OB's a leg hits the camera side of the fence, no?

Yes I remember the express eventing fall when the fence gave.
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I think it's as he comes down, the yellow box bit on top comes off and the corner breaks off at the same time. Could be wrong though.

No, not the Express Eventing fall. The fence was fine in that instance as far as I know, and the other fence that did break (the skinny iirc) did not injure the horse. I am thinking years ago, and I heard it from a top course designer.
 
dafthoss said:
Was me that mentioned the moto gp air bags, dad is a confirmed moto gp nut and I quite enjoy it myself. For any one interested here are some video links I have found.

Here is an old video from when they first came out for bikes explaining how it all works
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-jPdTdwMZs
Here is one being set off
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_plBbewCxw&NR=1&feature=fvwp
and another type going off
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mo9Vlt5tGwY
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Really fascinating, thanks.
 
Despite being an ardent Air jacket fan I agree with Lolo.
Despite what people might try & say the air jacket will not protect you in a true rotational where you do not seperate from the saddle. At this point the only piece of equipment that can is the Exo.
Air jackets can & have protected riders in many rotational type falls but only where there has been sufficient movement of the rider from the saddle to activate the lanyard.

What a horrid, horrid fall :(
 
There was a theory floating around that the water being so still made it difficult for the early horses to judge hence the stumbling after first element. There was a few fallers/20pens in first few horses as far as I remember that then improved as light rain started to fall making it easier for horses to read as the water rippled slightly. Horrible fall and well done Kerilli for forwarding to the powers that be. Any footage than can be used to further increase safety is more than worth forwarding
 
I couldn't really not reply the this thread, firstly, thank goodness their both ok and here's hoping Buzz will be back bouncing round XC with his usual perkyness in the near future.

Secondly, it has been touched on regarding the Moto GP & Super bikes etc, my father is also an avid fan and he has mentioned before, given we are also in a high risk sport- not matter how well you know or don't know your equine partner and/ our the course you face, they seem to have a weath more technology geared toward improving safetly and guarding against serious falls. I often wonder if we cannot learn from each other sports and therefore make the sports less risk for the dangerous falls and their affects.

I would think that the nature of a motor cyclist being seperated from his bike happens more often and quicker as they already generally travel at faster speeds to start with, therefore reducing the likelyhood of the lanyard not being pulled to release the air into the jacket- that said, my father has full sports bike gear and the jacket with the leathers is already a kind of EXO type gear, therefore providing the support as a biker would usual use the same positions when leaning into corners etc and the gear fits to the type of sports bike he has, as riders there also needs to be a degree of flexibility to be able to move with your mount, should the need arrise...... food for thought I think :eek: Phew! sorry for that essay :D
 
Looks awful, they were lucky to walk away. The fence breaking does look bad, I take it there's no chance it was designed to come apart under impact? (can't see any reason why that would be desirable, quite the reverse but others here are far more expert than me).

So far as I can see the great value of airjackets comes when the rider gets flung out of the saddle and into something hard - very handy if flung onto tarmac, excellent if catapulted into a fence or a tree. I think that only exos are properly effective in a true rotational where the rider remains in the saddle throughout.
 
On his approach you can see how strong the reflection of the first fence is on the water. This goes once the water is disturb by him landing. The fence he fell over was reflecting back into the water which could have led to him standing too far off the bank out. The other horses that fell were shortly before him and one of them has an even better XC record than OB. It is thought that the horses thought they were landing on top of the water.
With regard to the fence breaking, that part was outside the flag but it would suggest that more care needs to be taken on the decorative parts of the fence to guard against a leg becoming trapped.
 
oldvic said:
On his approach you can see how strong the reflection of the first fence is on the water. This goes once the water is disturb by him landing. The fence he fell over was reflecting back into the water which could have led to him standing too far off the bank out. The other horses that fell were shortly before him and one of them has an even better XC record than OB. It is thought that the horses thought they were landing on top of the water.
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Yes, an argument that someone should throw a pebble into the water to make ripples on the approach of every horse (as has been done elsewhere) or maybe to have a small fountain off to the side to keep the water moving, prevent it from becoming mirror-like and tricking the horses.

oldvic said:
With regard to the fence breaking, that part was outside the flag but it would suggest that more care needs to be taken on the decorative parts of the fence to guard against a leg becoming trapped.
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Yes, that's exactly what I meant.
 
kerilli said:
Yes, an argument that someone should throw a pebble into the water to make ripples on the approach of every horse (as has been done elsewhere) or maybe to have a small fountain off to the side to keep the water moving, prevent it from becoming mirror-like and tricking the

Yes, that's exactly what I meant.
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I believe there are plans for several fountains next year!!!

Unfortunately it takes this sort of thing to make people sit up and think. Thankfully the outcome was ok.
 
If you pause it along buzz knocks off the yellow top block and then scrapes his front leg down the 'back' of the boat and makes a scrape. Then the actual fence damage is caused by his front leg then coming back up again on the rotation kicking out the piece of wood. I suppose it's equally possible he's have done more damage if it hadn't broke aka stable kick board style as it actually let his leg do that flight path.
 
oldvic said:
With regard to the fence breaking, that part was outside the flag but it would suggest that more care needs to be taken on the decorative parts of the fence to guard against a leg becoming trapped.
Click to expand...

You'd think people would be a bit wiser to these things after that horrible fall in the pony 2* a few years back at the old Chepstow where the pony got his foot caught in a life ring decorating a boat fence and had a horrible fall. People forget things very fast!
 
Horrible fall. :eek:

It looks almost like his front shoe (Im assuming studs are in) catches down the landing side of the jump and its that that causes a chunk to get ripped off?
 
kerilli said:
It prompted an interesting discussion, apparently the airbags they use in motorbike racing "have motion sensors in and once they go past a certain point they go off. If you watch the moto gp you can see the little lights flashing on their arm on the grid to tell them its live".
that sounds a LOT more reliable than a lanyard that can fail etc.
Click to expand...

I dont see how that would work for eventing. On a motorbike, the rider generally moves pretty smoothly (so when they move violently it's easy for the motion sensors to go off). But on a horse as we all know, you can get thrown about quite violently but still stay in the saddle. Wouldnt then fancy an air jacket going off while still on!
 
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