Organic livery yards - tell me your experiences!

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nicnag

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We have been informed this morning that the farm we keep our horses on is planning on converting to organic status from 2017. I have had a quick hunt about for information regarding feed stuffs etc but I would be interested in your experiences. I love where we are and it is an excellent place for our horses but I also don't want to risk their welfare. The farm has said they will offset additional costs for feed if it proves more expensive but first I need to find a supplier which suits our horses. I know our current brands are GMO free but not organic certified. I'm not too concerned regarding worming as we have only our 4 horses, they are extensively grazed on clean land with sheep following behind. we do worm egg counts and so far our counts have all been extremely low or almost zero. I'm led to understand that should we end in a position that we need to worm then there are ways and means of handling it. I am more concerned of getting quality forage and sourcing suitable quantities in our area as I can't think of any organic suppliers at the moment.

All advice much appreciated!
 
Hi, out of interest I have just checked my trade price list that covers all major brands of horse feed and cannot see anything equine that's organic and have phoned our wholesaler who also cannot think of anything

Sorry - that doesn't bode well!
 
A farm I know it extends to products used on your horse too - shampoos, everything have to be organic also.
 
They weren't allowed to use anything non organic due to it going into the ground and/or water sources as it would affect the inspections that were needed each year to pass as organic (or something like that!)
 
Sorry I have no personal experience of organic livery yards but two thoughts spring to mind:

Is the farm able to make their own organic hay for you to use?
If you can't source organic branded horse feeds is it possible to source organic straights e.g. oats, barley etc and make up your own feeds (like us old people used to do years ago :) )
 
Fairly certain the horses hard there isn't organic though? But does have to be gm free? The hay/haylage is organic but grown on site there I think if memory recalls. Don't know much else I'm afraid!
 
WelshD said:
Allen and Page make organic poultry feed, it may be worth giving them a call to see if they do a less advertised, less easily available horse feed that I am not aware of just in case!
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I did, we currently use Calm and Condition, it's GMO free but not Organic certified, bit disappointing as it works well for us.
 
Sealine said:
Sorry I have no personal experience of organic livery yards but two thoughts spring to mind:

Is the farm able to make their own organic hay for you to use?
If you can't source organic branded horse feeds is it possible to source organic straights e.g. oats, barley etc and make up your own feeds (like us old people used to do years ago :) )
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Unfortunately not, it's a fairly hill place and the ground which has been historically used for forages hasn't for about 6 years now. They have no requirement to make forage for their own use either. I could suggest they shut off a park and we get it for Hay?
 
Sparkles said:
Fairly certain the horses hard there isn't organic though? But does have to be gm free? The hay/haylage is organic but grown on site there I think if memory recalls. Don't know much else I'm afraid!
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The GMO bit seems to be easy, its the forage bit....The info I was given this morning states organic feed so I will look into it, if I find it at three times the price it could end up that they have to pay us to be there!
 
Its the certification that's needed so straights may be the way to go as suggested above.

I know that with organic eggs the certification is all important, you could source feed from down the road from a farm untouched by pesticides etc but if they aren't certified you risk your farm's status. I do think this extends to shampoo products as also mentioned above and wonder where the limits are - does it extend to waterproofing on rugs too? all of these are run off products even if only in a very tiny way sorry to be a doom merchant :(
 
you may find that as the horses are not being bred for or producing eggs milk etc for the food chain that organic horse feed is not required. best is to ask someone who knows at deffra which could be an interesting experience for you :D
 
WelshD said:
Its the certification that's needed so straights may be the way to go as suggested above.

I know that with organic eggs the certification is all important, you could source feed from down the road from a farm untouched by pesticides etc but if they aren't certified you risk your farm's status. I do think this extends to shampoo products as also mentioned above and wonder where the limits are - does it extend to waterproofing on rugs too? all of these are run off products even if only in a very tiny way sorry to be a doom merchant :(
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Oh god, might need to look for another yard........
 
My friend runs a livery on her organic farm .
Another friend kept her horse there for several years .
They where just fed normal bagged food which the owners bought
The haylage and hay was made and provided as part of the livery charge by the farm .
Wormers were only given after wec .
And antibiotics were only used after the vet had seen the horse they were very strict about this .
They had no special rules as far as I remember about shampoo.

Finding horses organic hard food will be prohibitively expensive and very restrictive for owners .
 
Are there ways round it I wonder? I know nothing about it so just suggesting some things that spring to mind.

Could they source forage and supply to you at cost? It seems a bit much for them to expect you to do that if they're forcing it on you.

In terms of feed, could regular poo picking and emptying your barrows into a trailer for it to be disposed of elsewhere be an option or would chemicals still have time / opportunity to leach into the soil?

Could the livery yard be a sort of subsidiary business, run separately on land that it just earmarked for the horses and therefore not part of the organic farm?
 
Dont supp[ose it has anything to do with what day it is!!

If its not good luck as the requirements are very onerous and will on its own cut out a lot of vet treatments as well as wormers. Organic feed supplies will be the least of the issues. However there is no requirement for the whole farm to be certified only land used by agricultural produce.
 
popsdosh said:
Dont supp[ose it has anything to do with what day it is!!

If its not good luck as the requirements are very onerous and will on its own cut out a lot of vet treatments as well as wormers. Organic feed supplies will be the least of the issues. However there is no requirement for the whole farm to be certified only land used by agricultural produce.
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I wish! No it has been mentioned before today but this was the 'official' notification and was supported by relevant paperwork!
 
annagain said:
Are there ways round it I wonder? I know nothing about it so just suggesting some things that spring to mind.

Could they source forage and supply to you at cost? It seems a bit much for them to expect you to do that if they're forcing it on you.

In terms of feed, could regular poo picking and emptying your barrows into a trailer for it to be disposed of elsewhere be an option or would chemicals still have time / opportunity to leach into the soil?

Could the livery yard be a sort of subsidiary business, run separately on land that it just earmarked for the horses and therefore not part of the organic farm?
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I'd like to think we can be seperated from it, they are caretakers of a large estate and farming is not their first priority really but also makes me suspect they wouldn't have the contacts to source us suitable forage, I suppose if we do it ourselves at least we can be sure of what we are getting.. We have 4 horses running 15 acres which ideally we could remove from the organic status, I would be happy to hoover the field regularly if I thought it would help!
 
crabbymare said:
I think you need to talk to deffra as in my post above because I am sure you dont need special feed
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Organic production is certified by the soil association not DEFRA and indeed if the animals are kept on certified land they will need organic certified feed.
 
We are a registered Organic cattle/sheep & pig farm. I have 2 horses, in 15 years this has never been a problem. The only requirement I have is to show I am feeding GM free 'bagged' feed. My hay is grown on the farm, so it is organic and bedding does not need to be organic ( even for the cattle). There should be no problem under the rules if feeding non-organic forage as long as it is not spread in the field Ie feed from a feeder or haynet.
Horses are not food animals therefore it does no matter what you put into them, so you are perfectly ok to use any antibiotics etc that you are advised to use.

After worming the boys are kept in for 48 hrs so the poo does not contaminate the grazing even though it goes on the muck heap and is spread on the fields.

Most organic inspectors ignore the horses not wanting to add to their work load.

Hope this makes sense as I've written in a hurry, gotta go & feed the pigs! Happy to chat more later if queries arise
 
Don't panic! I was on an organic farm with 20 other liveries. The only stipulation was gm free feed and we bought their organic straw/hay. But this didn't precludd using other types of bedding. I would talk to your yard owner and see if they are prepared to source the hay and bedding.
 
The only restriction we had was that we couldn't use a certain wormer and if I remember correctly it was Eqvalan but it was a long time ago!
 
I kept my 2 neds on an organic beef/sheep farm a few years ago. There were 10 of us liveries there. We bought the farms hay, but could use whatever feed and bedding we wanted. There were no restrictions on us at all. The horses did graze a different part of the farm from the cows and sheep though.
 
I think both Agrobs (Red Rufus feeds in this country) and Thunderbrooks are organic (not sure on certification), think Emerald Green MIGHT be also and I think you can get things like organic oats... I'd get clarification tbh as you may find that as the horses aren't entering the food chain then what hard feed they are fed etc may not actually matter.
 
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