OUR 2 YEAR OLD IS BECOMING AGRESSIVE-NASTY BITE!! ADVICE PLEASE

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blueberry

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Hi, i have posted before about our homebred 2 year old and the advice was very helpful but the problem seems to be worsening now
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He has become more irritable since we have had to bring him in and stable him due to resting our fields.
Initially he tolerated being in and just going out for an hours run in the paddock but not now.

The problem is his biting, mainly after his mealtimes or whilst eating from his haynet.

He is becoming vicious with the biting and he has bitten almost all of us now and sometimes they are nasty bites. We are experienced handlers and have home bred him so we know he has never been mis handled or mis treated, so he has no excuse. I say it is because he is stabled but as this is the 1st time he has been in so much, maybe this is his nature and we just havent seen it before?

I am looking at getting a horse behaviourist to do some work with him, any ideas or know of any in the north. we need to do something, he is standing at 16hh now so he is becoming a big boy!
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Big piece of blue piping?
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Sorry, that's not very helpful. I do think you need to get this nipped in the bud or he could get worse still.

What do you do to him when he does bite you? I would try screaming the place down, giving him a smack and/or biting him back.

The trouble is, keeping him in 24/7 at that age (IMO) is bound to make him frustrated and he is venting this on you. Is there no way you could turn him out at all? In a small section of the field maybe? It is important at 2 that he has time in the field to 'be a horse', rather than being cooped up all day.
 
He is normally out 24/7 but he developed infected mud fever when moved to a different field so we have had to keep him in for that reason also.

In total he has been in for 5 weeks now and he is a very playful horse, he loves playing with bis ball and is always p[laying with his companion in the field. I do appreciate that he is missing this but i am concerned that he is nasty with it, rather than playing or just a bit grumpy.

We have given him a slap and shouted at him, he has no respect for our space which is difficult, i do feel he would kick if we were not careful.

When he was a yearling he was lovely, when you went into the stable with him, he would move over straight away to give you room, but things have changed, more so since we turned himm out 24/7.
 
Echo Arwen! Blue pipe could be your saviour; it makes a very healthy swish and whack but doesn't hurt half as much as a whip would. You need to straighten him out now before he gets worse, being nice to him will not be the answer I'm afraid, you need to be boss and he needs to know it.

Tell me why are you in his space when he is eating or at his haynet because that should be 'his' time, not the time to do things with him?

TBH, mud fever or no mud fever I would be chucking him out; he needs space and playtime at that age; he's just not getting enough of either. Smear his legs up with Protocon or zinc and castor oil cream, he'll take no harm but don't wash it off, just replaster as necessary. The scabs will drop off gently when you apply the cream. In fact, some vets advocate leaving MF alone completely as it will heal itself, it's just slower (but more natural)
 
I know you are right, i think the sight of me going in with blue pipe would horrify some of the liveries but i do agree, it is better than a whip without a doubt.

I think its time for him to go back out, i was hoping to get the grass grown through a little more but i can always put haylage in.

i am just upset that he is so nasty with it-but i maybe expect too much from him.
 
i know hes not near you but you could always give michael peace a call. i sent my tearaway youngster to him and she has come back a different horse!
 
You need to turn him out as much as possible so he channels his energy more positively, preferably with a more dominant horse to put him in his place again. Perhaps you could put him in the school with his friend for an hour to let off steam.
And I'd also like to point out that he must have been 'mishandled and mistreated' or he wouldn't have developed such bad manners. Mishandling and mistreatment can include failure to discipline correctly when needed, in my opinion. You need to work out what consequences there will be for him when he breaks the rules, and then enforce them consistently. Consequences for biting could include shouting 'no', slapping his muzzle away, nipping his neck (simulates a bite from a horse), pulling a whisker, rattling a can full of pebbles....whatever you feel comfortable with. Remember to praise him when he isn't biting, and is doing nothing wrong - that is quite hard to do as we tend to take it for granted.
Perhaps 'working' him mentally for brief sessions each day would help stimulate and discipline him - can he wear rugs/tack/boots/load/unload/walk over tarpaulins/walk over poles/go walkies in hand/walk through streams/slalom between cones, etc. Avoid physical 'work' though - he's too young, IMO.
Hope you sort the fiend out
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I'm with the blue piping brigade - marvellous stuff!

He sounds as though he is becoming dominant and challenging you for superiority - you need to regain the top slot - and soon. Obviously he is also frustrated at being in for so long but you do need to make a stand now as it will have a bearing on his future behaviour.
 
Oh the Terrible Two's!! been there, done that and bought the T shirt but don't panic there is light at the end of the tunnel!

I've been in the same place, my 2 year old WB went from being a laid back, sweet natured fussy bundle of fluff into a face pulling, ears pinned back noterils flaring, kicking, fire breathing dragon, who on a few occasions tried to attack me in the school while lunging him...not a pleasant experience I can tall you.

Could be a number of things that is making him grumpy, being kept in, you being near his food, cutting his teeth, trying to dominate you etc etc however there is no excuse for aggressive behavior which is what you need to show him asap before you end up with a strong and dangerous horse.

Sounds like he's testing you and treating/responding to you like your one of them...a horse, one that is lower down the pecking order which is perfectly natural, however most horses usually realise this earlier on in life but he's seen a weakness in you and the way you act around him and has cottoned on to it.

He needs to respect you and your space before he'll he will let you in his space, once this has been sorted he will feel very comfortable you being around him.

You probably know all this so I apologise if I'm rambling on about stuff you alreay know but sometimes we are all guilty of not handleing our horses in correctly, were creatures of habit and do things without realising it instead of taking step, a few deap breaths and taking good luck at what we might be dong wrong and sometimes it takes a horse like yours and mine to make us realise it...which is good, so look at the whole thing positively and as a learning curve.

So this starts with good ground work, making him go away from you, backing off, moving on etc are you doing this?

Don't let him come too close to you, a quick sharp elbow in the neck, or on his nose everytime he's busy sticking his face in your face, you'll only have to do this about 10 times until he gets the message. Sharp poke in the chest to make him move backwards from you etc as he's not going to listen to your voice once respect has gone out of the window, none of this is cruel its just a way of you warning them off, just like they'd kick each other in the field etc

The moment he swishes a tail and lifts a leg at you threatening to kick you (say if your picking his feet out) give him a big sharp slap with the hand under his belly, this will shock him and straight away carry on with your what you were doing, do not show any fear, he will pick up on your nerves if you hesitate.

Always stay safe and wear a riding had and carry a whip around with you when handling him, because there is every chance he may rear at you and box you down with his front feet agani another way of trying to dominate you.

Don't put yourself in positions where your going to end up arguing with him and shouting at him, because this will wind you both up even more and create more problems, take him for a walk/groom what ever you do, if he's good reward with soft voice and a stroke, then put him back in the stable and leave him be when he's eating so you both finish on a good note.

Make him back away from the stable door every time you enter, it's your stable not his, if you do have to do anything his his stable then tie him up for your own safety until he learns to respect you.

Don't over fuss him too much, too much fuss and patting will loose you respect as a leader at this age, of course always praise him but only after he's done as you ask, try not to talk to him too much unless your giving a comand. A lot of trainers will not let the grooms break/school there horses whilst in training because the horse knows the difference,... the leader and the feeder, you have to draw a line between the two.

Be extremely quick and sharp to correct him and put him in his place when he starts acting like this no good doing it 5 seconds later but only do it once, no good geting upset and beating and shouting at your horse as this will only make him resent you more, remember actions speak louder than words, but they must come quick

Believe in your own authority, be strong and fair with him and you will soon hopefully work your way through this and both have mutual respect for each other, remember your horse will always be stronger than you, the trick is not letting him find that out, once you've established the above you can fussy and talk to him as much as you like but while he's a young impresionable youngster you need to esablish some foundation first.

Good luck and I sure you'll be fine in a few months down the line.
 
To be honest i dont think it is mis-handling. We have had many years experience with youngsters/foals. all who have turned into well adjusted individuals with useful lives.

I can only go back to when he was with his mum, she never disciplined him or 'taught him any manners' and he walked all over her.

We always made him move away when we entered his stable, he ties up with no fuss, will be good for the farrier as we always picked his feet up and out daily from the day he was born. he will lead in hand politely and is well mannered for the vet.
Since weaning we always rotated him out with older 'bossier' companions.

i feel though that genetically he may be pre-disposed to have this personality and yes, environmental factors can affect this-ie: handling etc but we saw a big change when we brought him back him after being turned away with youngsters and he is the only one like this.

it does maybe seem like he is trying to be the 'alpha male'. I have never felt like this before but i dont trust him and we have had some tricky youngsters but he is different.
 
If you think he is genetically pre-disposed to be a difficult child, then avoid breeding from the mare and/or stallion ever again! The world is full of pleasant horses - no one needs problem ones.
If you really feel out of your depth, either send him to someone else for training (but he may still be a little snake with you), or sell him if you don't like him. If he finds someone to have a fresh start with, he may improve.
Perhaps one of the rescue charities would help you out - they are usually very good at matching horses with suitable homes and handlers who won't be scared of them.
But don't breed any more
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Good luck.
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This was the 1st foal bred from this mare and to be honest we did decide not to breed from her again, she found him very difficult to cope with. Of course he would not have a suitable temperament to breed with if he was entire-which he isnt.

The mare is very correct and is a wonderful type for her breed and she has a great temperament so we did not make a foolish decision in breeding with her and her stallion was carefully chosen for his temperament too.

So really his temperament should have been a foregon conclusion but he is an exception to the rule.

We are not scared of him, that is not the same as not trusting him.

I am just wanting to think carefully about the way forward with him. He will not be sold , he will one day in the near future have a good ridden job. All our horses are carefully handled and schooled and become very genuine schoolmasters/mistresses in time. I am very proud of our home produced record and our ponies and always notiably well mannered in the ring, so it isnt all bad.

Being honest and asking for other peoples advice is not a failing but it is because i am confident in what we do that i am able to ask.

We will always consider breeding in the future if we choose to but obviously consider the parents.
 
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