Outlines....how were you taught to achieve them?

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TheShark

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As it says on the tin really...

How were you taught to achieve an outline, and what do think is the correct way to achieve a true outline? How would you teach someone to encourage the horse they were riding to go in an outline?

Just interested really, am unable to ride at the mo so can't really ask my instructor!
 
I was always taught that a horse needs to be working up from behind into the bridle, they must be working correcly through the back and withers to achieve a correct outline and not just a nice looking head. So to achieve this it's a case of working leg into hand, but a horse must be going forwards first, if the horse isn't working forwards correctly then a correct outline will not be achieved.
 
use the forward, straight and relaxed method,

forward off the legg, keeping the horse straight, and getting them to relax their jaw / neck / shoulders.

keep the hands still but allow the horses head movement, work on circles and the outline will come.
 
Forwards work in time results in an 'outline'. I wouldn't ride to achieve an outline as an end unto itself. It is just a v small part of having a horse working correctly forwards, with balance and self carriage and flexability. Learnt from lots of different places: reading from lots of different sources (sustainable dressage is v good at its explanations), watching people ride, bringing on horses, riding other horses, my instructor.
To teach someone it would be part and parcel of having the horse go well off the leg, soft giving hands from the rider who rides with balance and an independant seat, soft bending exercises with the horse while maintaining impulsion and bending softly through the neck while neither falling in or out. When the above can be achieved and the horse has been well warmed up you will find that an outline will appear. Though if you concentrate on riding the horse correctly (more by feel tbh!) the outline won't be what you are concentrating on achieving, you will be riding to achieve that lovely feeling - the 'outline' of the horse that results is arguably one of the least important aspects of how the horse is working!!
 
A fine balance between leg and hand.

Basically just sit quiet, get the horse springing forward actively off the leg into your hand, once there supple yet relaxed and warmed up correctly any horse that is comfortable being ridden should be able to acheive this without the rider doing anything but just sitting quiet and letting the horse do the work, how ever the time it takes with each horse will vary and then you have the added problems at times that work against you.
 
By creating energy and impulsion from the leg and seat, and containing the energy in a consistent, elastic contact.

Ditto glos_girl, focussing on that lovely, light, swinging feeling is the key, and the correct outline comes naturally :)
 
I think the more people focus on getting their horse in an outline, the more they do the wrong things! I for one, am criminal of this! Generally if you have impulsion, rhythm, balance, suppleness and acceptance of whichever bit you have chosen then your horse should fall naturally in an outline, developing the correct 'topline' muscles in order to one day hold himself there in self carriage. I think what you're asking is; who 'saws' on their horses mouths to get a totally false and un-naturally forced shape :D I would never 'teach' someone to get an outline, I would make sure everything was in place for the horse to carry himself correctly.
 
I wasn't taught to ride to 'achieve an outline'. I was taught to ride the horse 'correctly', using my seat and legs, with impulsion coming from the horse using its back-end correctly. I had many a lesson with no reins, (and no stirrups).
I was talking recently to the BSPS judge who taught me to ride, 40 years ago. He commented on the fact that many riders are taught to 'wiggle the fingers' to get the horse's nose in, which results of course in a false outline. He made several derogatory comments about the standard of riding which he sees in showing classes these days. He was also scathing about the standard of much instruction.
 
Have to agree with the previous post and confirm that the best way is by riding the horse correctly from behind into the hand.

My mare was being ridden by someone for me who thought that the way to achieve the outline was to ride with her hands very wide and low and basically pull her head down and in. This resulted in my mare then leaning very heavily on my hands when I rode her. I took advice and immediately stopped that person from riding her and set about putting right the problem.

I worked very hard on getting her to relax her head and neck and to actually lengthen through her back into my hand. Once we had done this I then started to shorten my reins a little and to work her, from behind, into them keeping a nice flexible and very light contact. What I found was that quite naturally, over time, she came into an outline herself and I experience that wonderful "floaty" feeling you get when this happens.

I have to say I am very proud of her and of myself as this is the first time I have ever done this and only "learnt" what you are supposed to do by reading tips in books and online etc.

Now if only I could get her on the right leg in canter on the right rein!
 
One place taught to simply ride correctly - don't worry about outline as long as horse working correctly.
One instructor encouraged "sawing" on both hands to achieve an outline.
One instructorencourage wide, low hands wiggling on inside rein, keeping outside rein steady and releasing pressure of inside hand as soon as horse dropped head.
Another one encouraged to put inside hand forward so no pressure on it ever and so inside rein is for horse and outside rein is for rider.

Now, I get my horse going with impulsion and supple and find that she drops her head into an outline naturally.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
I wasn't taught to ride to 'achieve an outline'. I was taught to ride the horse 'correctly', using my seat and legs, with impulsion coming from the horse using its back-end correctly. I had many a lesson with no reins, (and no stirrups).
I was talking recently to the BSPS judge who taught me to ride, 40 years ago. He commented on the fact that many riders are taught to 'wiggle the fingers' to get the horse's nose in, which results of course in a false outline. He made several derogatory comments about the standard of riding which he sees in showing classes these days. He was also scathing about the standard of much instruction.
Click to expand...

I have to agree, and add to standard of instruction - the cost these days!!! :eek:

Not exactly value for money...
 
with my horse the 'outline' has come from about a years worth of work- and we're still not there lol!
for her - i worked first and foremost on strength - she didn't have the muscles to use - so lots of long and low - lots of hill work - lots of work to get her relaxed through her back

we also worked on getting her stepping under herself - lots of spirals, flexion, pole work, transitions and rests(long reins, pat, talk to etc) at the right time (an often overlooked thing i feel!) and getting her working off the leg and listening

then we worked on acceptance of contact - before she would revert straight to 'yak' with any slight contact - so a soft elastic contact without allowing her to lean - inside rein asking for flexion - outside consistant unless needed

we're getting there :)
 
This is really interesting. I'm afraid I am guilty too of concentrating more on making the front look pretty, so I have decided that I am going to start again with the whole thing and do it properly now that I know what I've been doing wrong!!
My horse is an ex-racer though, and uses speed to get out of doing things which he doesn't understand or are hard - I spend so much time trying to get him to relax, working long and low etc. He is very lazy though too and not very quick off the leg (I'm doing lots of transition work to try and solve this).
My question is though, how can I get him going forward enough, but without just going faster and faster. I try and use my seat to slow him, but am finding it difficult. Is it just a case of using the outside rein to control speed, or are there any other tips I can try?

Sorry to hijack OP's thread!
 
How was I taught? By wiggling one rein then the other, nothing to do with legs. As a teenager the ponies I rode looked like they were watching tennis matches!

I hasten to add that I have improved and learned considerably more since then!
 
Woodykat said:
My question is though, how can I get him going forward enough, but without just going faster and faster. I try and use my seat to slow him, but am finding it difficult. Is it just a case of using the outside rein to control speed, or are there any other tips I can try?
Click to expand...

for trot the easiest way is to control your rising
for canter - how does he respond to half halts?

you could add the odd pole round the arena to get him looking and thinking (although that really depends on horse lol! some speed up with that ;))
 
Thanks posie_honey! :)

Hehe well poles are only there for jumping according to him (we're working on this too!)

In canter, atm I'm just trying to stop him leaning on me and using me for balance - if I drop my reins in canter he usually falls back to trot. Although when he is going forward and balanced, he's does come into a lovely outline then - it's just getting him consistent.

I tell you what though, It's only recently that I've realised just how much schooling he needs - I've been toddling along, thinking that he was doing quite well, and then after going to some demo's, boy was I deluded!

Thanks for your help :)
 
Get the horse working correctly behind and then the outline just slides into place. "If the arse isn't there then the head is pointless"...

I was just taught to simply tense the arm if the horse was reluctant to give its head and accept the bit, and then relax when it the desired effect is achieved!
 
My instructor didn't teach us to get our horses in an outline, she taught us to "connect the horse". Basically to get the back end working and tracking up without letting it all escape through the front door. The outline is the result of acheiving this, and not what you strive for in the first place.

I can remember all the work we did on connection and using a tiny bit of inside bend and not really getting it until after!

The real turning point for me was riding the horse I shared, he wasn't a sour old riding school horse and responded really well to being riden inside leg to outside hand and "holding" your core muscles and went into a nice outline quite easily. Once I'd got the feel with him the school horses were much easier.

The first time I think I ever really experienced proper connection and "outline" I was riding a school horse who was a typical ruined with draw reins type. He was a bit long in his conformation and tended to tuck his head in prettily and trail his back legs. My instructor had been getting me to work lots of transitions and things to try and connect him and he wasn't really getting there. She got on and read him the riot act and after about five minutes he actually looked like a different horse. She then let me get back on and talked me through it, he felt taller and lighter and just so different it was amazing!

Knowing what I was aiming for made all the difference!

The combination of her giving me a bit of a demo and then the share horse really cracked it for me. To be honest the horse teaches it as much as the instructor and I really envy anyone who gets an opportunity to ride a real schoolmaster.
 
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