Over-reactive horse!!

[emmo1]

How can I help my 4yr old to become less dramatic and over-reactive about EVERYTHING!!
Every time we go in the school it takes me 10 mins to get him anywhere near a pole, the same pole that has been there for the past 4 months. He jumps at every noise, any time something catches his eye eg person, dog, another horse whatever. He is constantly on high alert and on the lookout for something to spook at. Hacking is a nightmare more time is spent reversing or going sideways.
How can I help teach him that the world is not out to get him and to relax.
He is stabled at day, out at night and fed top spec comprehensive without a carrier and added turmeric for his sarcoid.

Many thanks

 

[Freya]

Have you tried him on a calmer? My 4yr old was exactly the same at the beginning of backing, started him on Calmag which helped him so much to actually process what he was learning without all the stress/anxiety and push him through all his wobbles. Still likes to leap poles though

 

[JillA]

Could be short of magnesium (try magnesium oxide, or apparently magnesium chloride is better for a couple of weeks and see if it makes a difference) or sodium (ditto salt).

 

[Rosesandhorses]

I would definitely try a calmer. Failing that I would try altering the Top Spec and see if this makes a difference. Perhaps some ground work could help with lots of encouraging 'good boys' when he does something good and completely ignoring him when he spooks/does something bad - just change the subject. I think he has to learn that when he spooks at the same pole you find it boring so change the subject and hopefully he will soon get the idea. The 'good boys' should help build his confidence and should then feed onto more good work. I would make a massive fuss of him when he does something good - halt him and big pats so that he can properly absorb that you are pleased with him. Maybe even try sticking him out 24/7 to see if this helps. I would try hacking with a nanny horse who couldn't care less about anything so that he can realise that everything is okay. I hope this helps! I have been there so completely understand how frustrating it is!

 

[AengusOg]

Stabled during the day and turned out at night may be part of the problem. He won't be seeing much during the daylight hours, so may find it all a bit much when he is ridden out. Horses naturally desensitise to all manner of stimuli, but they must be exposed to the stimuli in the first place, The more the horse sees, the more he will become accepting and confident.

Lots of groundwork and long-reining, done well, would help build his confidence in you, and this would help him to be more attentive and responsive to you. You'll probably find that your horse will spook less if he feels that you are confident and looking after him.

Horses which are reactive to stimuli need more time spent on exposure to the things which frighten them. It is wise to manage their exposure and limit it to what they are able to stand before they go into reactive mode and start napping or inclining toward flight. Shorter hacks, perhaps in company, walking routes in-hand or in long-reins, and even standing around somewhere watching the world go by should help.

Horses which are trained well to respond to the rider or handler are less inclined to be reactive to new things. A confident rider, having taught the horse to be confident and responsive, can use that training to focus the horse and keep him attentive. A horse which is attentive to his rider is less likely to be reactive, as the rider takes and maintains control through confident riding and use of various aids.

If you demonstrate to the horse, through confident handling and riding, that the world is a safe place, he will believe it. If you seem unconcerned by people, dogs, other horses, and all the other things which may worry your horse, he will feel safe.

A good horse-person is one who can convince a horse that he has nothing to worry about.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

What does he eat when he is in during the day? If he has haylage, I would swap to hay. Then stop the Top Spec, it doesn't suit every horse.

As above, 24/7 turnout in a herd will help the horse to become more confident in his surroundings and hacking with a very steady nanny will help him to enjoy hacking.

 

[Pigeon]

My young horse is exactly the same, it's manageable, but like yours he is always on high alert. He is on hay, out 24/7 in a herd, and on magnesium, none have made any difference. I ride him pretty confidently and stay pretty relaxed, so I don't think it's just me. Two friends who are pros ride him, and he's exactly the same under them. I can generally keep the spooking under wraps, but finding it very difficult to get him to truly relax and release his back.

He did have sarcoids, what was yours treated with? He wasn't like this until after sarcoid treatment, and although I'm just blaming it on the 'terrible teens', I do wonder if there is some correlation there? Even if just a slight uncertainty of humans?

 

[emmo1]

My young horse is exactly the same, it's manageable, but like yours he is always on high alert. He is on hay, out 24/7 in a herd, and on magnesium, none have made any difference. I ride him pretty confidently and stay pretty relaxed, so I don't think it's just me. Two friends who are pros ride him, and he's exactly the same under them. I can generally keep the spooking under wraps, but finding it very difficult to get him to truly relax and release his back.

He did have sarcoids, what was yours treated with? He wasn't like this until after sarcoid treatment, and although I'm just blaming it on the 'terrible teens', I do wonder if there is some correlation there? Even if just a slight uncertainty of humans?

I am treating his sarcoid with turmeric as have read some amazing things about it on the Facebook page. So far no change but as it's small and not causing a problem I'll continue with this for the next few months and see how it goes.

He is on hay when he's in. He doesn't come in until about 10am at the moment and is back out by 6 latest. 24hr out is not an option where we are but until he was backed in March, 24 hr turnout is what he'd had from birth, with a mixed herd of all ages and he was exactly the same. He's fed on hay when in.

He also doesn't work through his back. He offers it intermittently which is good but spends most of his time scanning the arena for monsters!

Long lining is an issue as he won't tolerate anything touching his hindquarters when he's moving. If I put my hand behind the saddle he bucks and if a line touches him he takes off and bronks. He will however wear a rug with leg straps and a fillet string?!

I am not the most confident at the moment but a good actor and I always encourage him rather than back off. He's also been ridden by others and is exactly the same.

 

[emmo1]

What does he eat when he is in during the day? If he has haylage, I would swap to hay. Then stop the Top Spec, it doesn't suit every horse.

As above, 24/7 turnout in a herd will help the horse to become more confident in his surroundings and hacking with a very steady nanny will help him to enjoy hacking.

He is fed hay when in. Unfortunately 24hr turnout is not an option but I try and bring them in as late and put them out as early as possible. I only recently started the top spec, no change in behaviour since the addition of this. He always hacks with another horse though I do lead him out on his own and his expression is so funny. His eyes are on stalks!

 

[emmo1]

Stabled during the day and turned out at night may be part of the problem. He won't be seeing much during the daylight hours, so may find it all a bit much when he is ridden out. Horses naturally desensitise to all manner of stimuli, but they must be exposed to the stimuli in the first place, The more the horse sees, the more he will become accepting and confident.

Lots of groundwork and long-reining, done well, would help build his confidence in you, and this would help him to be more attentive and responsive to you. You'll probably find that your horse will spook less if he feels that you are confident and looking after him.

Horses which are reactive to stimuli need more time spent on exposure to the things which frighten them. It is wise to manage their exposure and limit it to what they are able to stand before they go into reactive mode and start napping or inclining toward flight. Shorter hacks, perhaps in company, walking routes in-hand or in long-reins, and even standing around somewhere watching the world go by should help.

Horses which are trained well to respond to the rider or handler are less inclined to be reactive to new things. A confident rider, having taught the horse to be confident and responsive, can use that training to focus the horse and keep him attentive. A horse which is attentive to his rider is less likely to be reactive, as the rider takes and maintains control through confident riding and use of various aids.

If you demonstrate to the horse, through confident handling and riding, that the world is a safe place, he will believe it. If you seem unconcerned by people, dogs, other horses, and all the other things which may worry your horse, he will feel safe.

A good horse-person is one who can convince a horse that he has nothing to worry about.

.

Unfortunately I have no control over his turnout hours where we are but I try and keep his in time to a minimum. Prior to moving in March and being backed he has spent the last 4 years turned out 24/7 in a mixed herd of all ages and was exactly the same.
I don't make an issue of the things he doesn't like as in turning him at them and making him look. I try and distract him, move his quarters or circle but every time it's the same thing and it's been like it the whole time we've been here.

I walk him out in hand as often as I can and do in hand work in the school playing with poles etc and he will happily follow me. He's happier when I'm down there with him. He's not a follower so another horse present doesn't seem to make a difference at all.

Long lining is a no no. He won't tolerate anything touching his back end when he's moving and freaks out. He will wear a rug with a fillet string though?!

We seem to constantly go through the same things every time we work together without ever moving forward.

 

[emmo1]

I would definitely try a calmer. Failing that I would try altering the Top Spec and see if this makes a difference. Perhaps some ground work could help with lots of encouraging 'good boys' when he does something good and completely ignoring him when he spooks/does something bad - just change the subject. I think he has to learn that when he spooks at the same pole you find it boring so change the subject and hopefully he will soon get the idea. The 'good boys' should help build his confidence and should then feed onto more good work. I would make a massive fuss of him when he does something good - halt him and big pats so that he can properly absorb that you are pleased with him. Maybe even try sticking him out 24/7 to see if this helps. I would try hacking with a nanny horse who couldn't care less about anything so that he can realise that everything is okay. I hope this helps! I have been there so completely understand how frustrating it is!

I am very vocal with him as he responds very well to my voice. I am also very encouraging with him when he gets it. We just don't seem to be moving forwards.
24/7 turnout is not currently an option though it's what he's always had until March. There's been no change in behaviour since starting the top spec and I will try a balancer, thank you.

 

[be positive]

He also doesn't work through his back. He offers it intermittently which is good but spends most of his time scanning the arena for monsters!

Long lining is an issue as he won't tolerate anything touching his hindquarters when he's moving. If I put my hand behind the saddle he bucks and if a line touches him he takes off and bronks. He will however wear a rug with leg straps and a fillet string?!

I am not the most confident at the moment but a good actor and I always encourage him rather than back off. He's also been ridden by others and is exactly the same.[/QUOTE]

The fact he is intolerant of the long rein and even your hand behind the saddle means in my view he either has some pain related problem or he has not been correctly started having had parts missed out possibly because it proved too challenging, until he accepts everything you do, and that includes being able to touch him where you want then I think you have a horse that will continue to overreact as he is lacking true confidence in his rider.
I would want to rule out a physical problem causing the reaction to his back being touched, a good physio may find a few areas of concern and refer back to your vet if anything more serious shows up.
Then I would want to address the long reining, lunging in a roller with a loosely tied tail bandage would help get him accepting something behind him, plenty of long reining should get him more focussed and enable you to get him thinking more forward, if he is scared of poles put some in the school so he has to walk over them every time he goes in there, put one in the gateway to his field in the doorway to his stable, some serious desensitising is required before he gets any more established in his behaviour otherwise you are in for a tough time, not sure how much fun it will ever be riding such a spooky horse and it should be fun.

 

[HannaST]

The fact he is intolerant of the long rein and even your hand behind the saddle means in my view he either has some pain related problem or he has not been correctly started having had parts missed out possibly because it proved too challenging, until he accepts everything you do, and that includes being able to touch him where you want then I think you have a horse that will continue to overreact as he is lacking true confidence in his rider.
I would want to rule out a physical problem causing the reaction to his back being touched, a good physio may find a few areas of concern and refer back to your vet if anything more serious shows up.
Then I would want to address the long reining, lunging in a roller with a loosely tied tail bandage would help get him accepting something behind him, plenty of long reining should get him more focussed and enable you to get him thinking more forward, if he is scared of poles put some in the school so he has to walk over them every time he goes in there, put one in the gateway to his field in the doorway to his stable, some serious desensitising is required before he gets any more established in his behaviour otherwise you are in for a tough time, not sure how much fun it will ever be riding such a spooky horse and it should be fun.

Agree with this, good advice there.

 

[emmo1]

He also doesn't work through his back. He offers it intermittently which is good but spends most of his time scanning the arena for monsters!

Long lining is an issue as he won't tolerate anything touching his hindquarters when he's moving. If I put my hand behind the saddle he bucks and if a line touches him he takes off and bronks. He will however wear a rug with leg straps and a fillet string?!

I am not the most confident at the moment but a good actor and I always encourage him rather than back off. He's also been ridden by others and is exactly the same.

The fact he is intolerant of the long rein and even your hand behind the saddle means in my view he either has some pain related problem or he has not been correctly started having had parts missed out possibly because it proved too challenging, until he accepts everything you do, and that includes being able to touch him where you want then I think you have a horse that will continue to overreact as he is lacking true confidence in his rider.
I would want to rule out a physical problem causing the reaction to his back being touched, a good physio may find a few areas of concern and refer back to your vet if anything more serious shows up.
Then I would want to address the long reining, lunging in a roller with a loosely tied tail bandage would help get him accepting something behind him, plenty of long reining should get him more focussed and enable you to get him thinking more forward, if he is scared of poles put some in the school so he has to walk over them every time he goes in there, put one in the gateway to his field in the doorway to his stable, some serious desensitising is required before he gets any more established in his behaviour otherwise you are in for a tough time, not sure how much fun it will ever be riding such a spooky horse and it should be fun.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for this. Will try the roller/bandage combination. I can put my hand on him when he's standing no problem just not when he's moving. Will source a physio and get him checked out.

Not sure if it's related at all but I can't put back boots on him he freaks right out. It's taken me since March to be bake to paint his back hooves without doing it in mid air though he will pick them up and see the farrier with no problem. I can't wash him as he doesn't like the sound of running water or the feel of droplets on him.

I am not the most confident and I know I'm probably the right person to have a horse like this but I bred him to keep and am determined to work through it however long it takes.

 

[Swirlymurphy]

I hate to say it but our over-reactive young TB was reacting to pain in his back. There were other signs but his hyper-alertness and reactions to the external world became such that we realised it was all connected. I would want to rule out pain through a full work-up with the vet including x-rays and bonescans before you address other issues.

 

[HannaST]

Mine is very similar, I've only had him for a few months so trying to figure it out. He passed a 5* vet check though from a very thorough vet. He's having the physio later today so I'll be interested to see what she says!

 

[AengusOg]

Lack of confidence in you is probably your biggest barrier to progress. Young horses need confident handling and riding.

Horses are not keen to give their feet to someone who is nervous as this just worries them. He will not lift his feet if he thinks he may need them.

There is a certain amount of preparation required before a horse can be expected to work in long-reins. It's amazing how many people try it and give up, and lots of horses are spoilt as a result of bungled attempts at long-reining. However, if you don't do things simply because the horse doesn't like it, you won't make much progress at all.

I teach people and horses how to work on longe and long-reins, taking them through the various exercises which make things easier for each of them to learn. There could well be someone near you who could help you with groundwork and other disciplines which would help you and your horse overcome the difficulties you face and allow you both to make progress. A good teacher should be able to help you with handling techniques which will make training easy.

 

[emmo1]

Let me know what they say. I'll give the vet a ring now and ask for a recommendation and get him checked out. Thank you

 

[emmo1]

Lack of confidence in you is probably your biggest barrier to progress. Young horses need confident handling and riding.

Horses are not keen to give their feet to someone who is nervous as this just worries them. He will not lift his feet if he thinks he may need them.

There is a certain amount of preparation required before a horse can be expected to work in long-reins. It's amazing how many people try it and give up, and lots of horses are spoilt as a result of bungled attempts at long-reining. However, if you don't do things simply because the horse doesn't like it, you won't make much progress at all.

I teach people and horses how to work on longe and long-reins, taking them through the various exercises which make things easier for each of them to learn. There could well be someone near you who could help you with groundwork and other disciplines which would help you and your horse overcome the difficulties you face and allow you both to make progress. A good teacher should be able to help you with handling techniques which will make training easy.

I understand that my confidence may be an issue though he is the same with everyone. I am working on it though and taking things slowly with him to allow us to gain confidence in each other. I avoid things that I know will be an issue unless I have someone on the ground who can help and guide me through and we always end on a good note, however small but the next day we're back where we started.

Will source a recommended physio and get him checked over just in case before drafting in extra help. Thank you

 

[emmo1]

I understand that my confidence may be an issue though he is the same with everyone. I am working on it though and taking things slowly with him to allow us to gain confidence in each other. I avoid things that I know will be an issue unless I have someone on the ground who can help and guide me through and we always end on a good note, however small but the next day we're back where we started.

Will source a recommended physio and get him checked over just in case before drafting in extra help. Thank you

Edited to add he will give me his feet, just wouldn't let me paint them or boot them and only the back ones. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to his behaviour and certainly no pattern. He is so sensitive to every little change. He is not the first youngster I've started though the first for a few years and I know they are all different but I've never had the challenges that he's presenting with!

 

[Under-the-radar]

Lack of confidence in you is probably your biggest barrier to progress. Young horses need confident handling and riding.

Horses are not keen to give their feet to someone who is nervous as this just worries them. He will not lift his feet if he thinks he may need them.

^^^ This

I have a sensitive ginger mare and she is absolutely horrific if she has someone handling her who is less confident than me. I have very much found with my mare that she feeds off my reactions - so if she spooks and it makes me jump, she will then jump more, making me jump more. For me, we have had to take things extremely slowly so that she trusts me and 99% of the time, we are pretty much ok. But it is not a quick process - and I agree with the others about ruling out pain

 

[Madali]

I was interested to read your thread as I have a lovely 4 year old who completely over reacts to things. At first I thought it was her being naughty but having spent a lot of time watching her and thinking about life I am beginning to wonder if as youngsters they are more sensitive to noise and feel.
An example of this is how she reacts to flies landing on her. You would think she had been cracked with a whip her reaction is so severe.
If she an hear something but not see it she is bonkers. She is brave as a lion if she can see it.
I know I haven't answered your question but thought you might find this of interest.
I spend a lot of time letting her figure things out for herself( this does not mean getting away with things) she then accepts it. Good luck

 

[JenJ]

The thing that jumped out from your post was that you were feeding turmeric - I started feeding my ex racer flyfree a few weeks ago, and it was only after two weeks of her being jumpy and spooky that I realised it began at the same time as the flyfree. I looked on the global herbs website and the main ingredient of flyfree is turmeric. Took her off it once I made the connection and she's calmed down a bit. It may just be a coincidence, but it could be worth you stopping the turmeric for a trial to see if anything changes in the behaviour?

 

[HannaST]

Let me know what they say. I'll give the vet a ring now and ask for a recommendation and get him checked out. Thank you

Physio told me he is pretty tense, he hasn't used himself correctly for a long time and now I'm asking him to, and he's finding it difficult. She said there's nothing seriously bad but I just need to keep working him correctly for short periods of time, and doing carrot stretches.
We'll see on Thursday if he's any better.