Overhandled youngsters and manners

Nudibranch

Nudibranch

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Large warmblood youngster, overhandled and spoilt as a foal. Thought people were something to push around, was the only foal on the yard. When he arrived I spent time teaching him the basics and he learns fast. Ties up, leads well (having been taught that leaning on/walking across your handler is not acceptable) and now fairly well mannered IN HAND. However in the field he's a complete pain. Bites and barges other horses almost constantly, rips their rugs, doesn't seem to know boundaries. He just receives continual ears back and kick threats because he's so rude. Yesterday he completely trashed a wheelbarrow and split his coronet and pastern badly by double barreling it. Not funny. When off the halter he has no idea of personal space. Rearing, biting and general coltish behaviour all the time. If I hadn't seen him gelded with my own eyes I'd swear he was a rig.

I'm trying to arrange a companion youngster for him so he has someone of his own age to play with, as I think he's bored by the adults. However if he's not learning social cues from adult horses I have no idea how he's going to learn from another baby! I'm also leaving him out in a leather headcollar so it's easier to move him about from the outset, and I take a schooling whip in with me just in case. But I've never come across such a Jekyll and Hyde horse before - once caught he's much better but you just cannot trust him in the field... any thoughts?

I was also thinking of doing more personal space work/driving away type exercises with him. But I'm not sure whether he's a candidate for leaving alone and hoping he grows up, or regular reminder work. He's 18 months btw.
 
I'd do the bare minimum of handling for the next 6mnths at least, find a young playmate & an older horse that will put him in his place & sort his field/herd manners out properly. Usually older mares are the best, but some geldings take on the role well too.
 
What you need is an old mare preferably ex brood and let him out on his own or if you know someone who runs a few in a herd but with no youngsters and they will very quickly put him in his place. My old mare will not allow ANYTHING into the herd until she gives permission. Its fascinating to watch over the week it takes. From being put in the field she drives them away with feet and teeth but without actually connecting. Her ears disappear into her head and the expression is priceless! Over a week she lets them stay on the periphery of the herd, but chasing off to a distance if she thinks they are too close. Around a week they are allowed to graze as part of the herd but if they try to push their luck she reminds them!!
 
Find a playmate and chuck him out.
He sounds bored, fed up, and in need of a like minded companion.
I would also throw him in with a similar sized "no nonsense" horse to teach him about personal space.
Nothing quite like other horses for teaching a youngster!
 
Yikes, he's only 18 months. The best company for him would be older no BS broodmares. I happen to have a really good gelding who has never failed in setting down the law if needed. We had a monster of a yearling colt one year that needed to stay a colt for the sales. He was just becoming impossible. Frank had him sorted in 2 days.

What company has he been out with? Just ear pinning and occasional kicks don't seem to be working. Most older broodmares are class for this, pregnant better but if they're not yours and you don't really know then maybe not.
My girl gang of 4 has the former broodmare who is quite sweet but she is totally respected. She sends in the younger members when manners need to be lined out. It sounds really stupid typing this but it's quite funny when you see it. Actually I've seen all manner of neat things when mares are in charge of a group.

At any rate, no matter what you do with him, it's not going to change what they do in a herd situation. They learn as they go. When mine try and push bounds over the younger ones they get sent up immediately to the enforcers. They never get a chance to get big and bold. My now 6 YO was the "baddie" in her group of weanlings, a warmblood also. She promptly got that knocked out of her by older brother and sister before she was an absolute terror. Because it was heading that way.

By all means keep working with him on the ground but unless he gets someone that will absolutely put him in his place he behaviour outside in a group is unlikely to change. I'm pretty sure I will be told I'm wrong but really these are social skills taught by other horses. Yours hasn't met the horse that can really knock him down and he needs it. Probably not a youngster.

Terri
 
Sounds like he needs to be out in youngstock turnout.

And he may have trashed the wheelbarrow - but what was it doing anywhere near him in the first place???
 
Hmm, interesting - he's turned out 24/7 with three others including a bossy old ex-broodmare who doesn't take any nonsense from anyone. The idea was to let him learn some manners! Yet he's just not getting it. The return bites, kicks, ear pinning, chasing etc just don't have an impact on him. He'll back off then go back for more! It really is as if he's completely socially inept and I don't know whether more youngsters would just make him worse.

AmyMay - poo picking. Even a youngster should be able to accept that...
 
It's not over handling that's caused it's it's the wrong kind of handling. I would get Richard Maxwell's train your young horse. His techniques promote youngsters having respect for humans even if they need to be handled daily as foals.
 
amymay said:
And that's why people run in to problems with youngsters........:o
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You would have a problem here then, not only poo picking but tractors, cherry pickers, toppers and manitous have all worked in the field with mine and they have to deal with it. The only thing I draw the line at is chain harows. When they are out and backed they can't be wrapped in cotton wool and not see anything, how else are they meant to learn?
 
To the OP, my big 2 year old has been sorted by an old gelding who beat 7 bells out of him. I felt really sorry for him at the time but he has improved no end. He tried to stand on the old boy while he was having a roll. Never again. (No shoes so no lasting damage)
 
Amy may why should youngsters be any different? I make no allowances for mine with anything! Treat them like babies and they will act like babies forever. Treat them with the same rules from day one and you'll get a well mannered well adjusted horse!
 
So would you use the same recipe for a quieter, not so opinionated youngster, because I can certainly supply my new weanling with a VERY dominant mare, but their size difference and his quieter attitude might overwhelm him and I'm not sure if that is the way to go?
 
The quieter subservient youngsters are usually accepted into the herd far mor quickly because they are this way.

A friend had a very spoiled 2 yr old filly that was dangerous in that she had absolutely no respect for anything. He dam would move away when the filly, as a foal wanted the feed.
She came to me to learn. It was no good turning her out with the others the same age so she went out with five brood mares with foals at foot.
Her life was hell for several weeks. She had lumps taken out of her and was chased all the time.
She learned.
 
Well, there is handling young horses effectively, then there is making a complete hash of it.

Horses, and young horses particularly reflect the skill of the handler.

Thinking about it, perhaps it's a good thing people leave them alone for three or four years, lol.
 
littlelegs said:
I'd do the bare minimum of handling for the next 6mnths at least, find a young playmate & an older horse that will put him in his place & sort his field/herd manners out properly. Usually older mares are the best, but some geldings take on the role well too.
Click to expand...

Totally aggree with this I firmly believe that over handling is as bad as not handling youngsters a young companion is agood idea but don't spend to much on it as it might well get damaged and yes what you need to add is a dominant mare she will fix it , best not to watch though.
 
My now 2 1/2 year old has had the summer out almost completely untouched as he was getting really quite bolshy in the winter/ spring due to limited turn out and only being with his mother who just did not want to play. I did some very specific Intelligent Equestrianism training with him re personal space then turned him away with 2 colts and 2 welsh section C's who all keep him in his place even though he is a giant

I can't fault him now
 
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