Overheight jumps

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qwertyuiop

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I competed in a combined training competition yesterday and the SJ was badged as 85cm. I am certain that almost all the jumps were set at 90cm, but I didn't have a taper measure with me to check.

Has anyone successfully challenged a course builder/judge for building a course overheight? I mentioned this to another couple of liveries last night, and they said that they have done 1.2m classes there that felt closer to 1.3m in the 1st round!
 
I think the course builders are allowed a 10cm leway on fences .
I'm 99% positive that the BSJA do .
But don't quote me on that
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This happens regularly and is allowed BSJA as above. If you challenge the course builder, I'm afraid you look like a wus!

West Wilts is a good one for this, I did a 1m open and it was 1.15m in the jump off and W I D E and I just squeaked quietly to myself to say face!!!
 
Is it allowed at pony club though? This year I entered my first open ode that was meant to be 3ft 6 and some of the showjumps were up to 1.16!
 
Yes I have on two seperate ocassions, the once at a BSJA show when it was clearly overheight (a mistake on the part of the coursebuilder who had put them up three holes instead of two) and some of us competitors went and spoke to the judge who spoke to the course builder and told him to put them down. He also put the last fence of the 2nd phase two strides away from the holding area leading to the collecting ring and a lot of us complained about how dangerous this was. Another time at an unaffiliated show when the jumps were put up for the next class by a load of 'helpers' the silly billies were measuring the cup height with a measuring stick and not the pole height, thus a 3ft 3" cup height was in fact 3ft 6" as the poles were 3" diameter. We were sitting on our horses watching them do this and slightly panicking at the height (particularly in the 2nd part of the two phase)! When we told them what they had done they said they didn't realise it was the pole height you measured! Oh dear. This is what happens at these little shows though, badly built jumps, and courses. My OH is a groundsman at a top show centre in the Midlands and he has learnt over the years what constitutes a good course and he knows what each wing hole represents in height automatically as he does about his striding related distances. He very rarley if ever makes errors.
 
Speaking to a BSJA course builder the other week, he told me that this 5-10cm leeway is actually a bit of an urban myth. They do have a small amount of leeway but only to, for example, make a jump level where the wing is standing on wonky ground, etc.

The adjustment is not intended to make jumps 'bigger' for a class with lots of competitors, etc.
 
This class was Combined Training, so I had taken my horse there to build his and my confidence. Exposing him to jumps bigger and wider than he has done at home did not help his confidence. I won't be going back there.
 
5cm really wouldn't have made much difference and as you didn't have a stick unless they were jump4joy you don't know they were definitely over height.

I know many people who jump unaffiliated are shocked when they meet a course built by a BSJA course builder. Even at Hartpury I did their unaffiliated 3ft3" (1m) and it was more like 80cm. I don't think unaffiliated shows help themselves as if they state a height they should build to it unless on awful ground.
 
They use the same jumps as my yard and I know where the screw holes on the metal strips on the wings are for different heights.

I always use a tape measure when I build jumps for myself, so I have a pretty good idea of what 85cm looks like.
 
BSJA rule 133(2):
Units
Metric units are used throughout these rules. The limits on the height and spread of obstacles laid down in the rules must be observed with the greatest care. However, if it should happen that a maximum dimension has been marginally exceeded as a result of the material used for construction and/or by the position of the obstacle on the ground, maximum dimensions laid down will not be considered as having been exceeded, but the permitted tolerance is 5cms maximum in the ring or the practice area.

Jump off heights - rule 135 - up by 10cm from first round up to 1.30m first round, then 5-10cm from first rounds over 1.30m.
 
I always think that the BSJA fences look pretty much bang on, the problems always come in unaff. competitons.

Sometimes they are too small, which is really annoying and a waste of time, or they are too big. One PC team jumping comp we were at was supposed to be 75cm max first round, the jumps were all 85cm (marked on jump 4 joy wings) and almost every fence was a parallel. Cue lots of very pale children!!! We did voice our concerns and the course builder (who didn't seem to have noticed the wings) very reluctantly put them down slightly. Out of 15 teams, only 8 had finishing scores, all the rest were E.
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I know many people who jump unaffiliated are shocked when they meet a course built by a BSJA course builder.

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I agree there is a huge difference in unaffiliated and affiliated courses. The BSJA courses are much more imposing because they are built to height and the parallels are much wider (at least they are round here).
Its the unaffiliated underbuilding that causes more problems IMO though. When I first got Jenny we qualifed for the UK chasers final - it was 75cm for the first round and 85cm in the 2nd round and then I think 95 for the final. I remember going down to Moreton Morell and being shocked at the height in the final and in particular the width of the parallels which were built to a BSJA standard and very different to the heights/widths in the previous rounds. The first 2 rounds had been underbuilt dramatically which made the final appear huge! It was when Jenny hopped round easily that I decided to affiliate.
I now by far prefer BSJA courses because even though they are "bigger" than the unaffiliated equivalent the distances are usually spot on and I would far rather jump a slightly bigger jump on a decent distance than something a bit smaller on a random distance - most of the unaffiliated round here run ponies and horses together and so the distances in the doubles/relateds are a bit hit and miss!
 
applecart14 - Id always been told that they DO measure to the bottom of the pole rather than the top of the pole which I always thought was odd.

I think if you're really not happy jumping slightly bigger, as in 85cm is your absolute limit then Id jump the class down from that if I were you to be on the safe side. BSJA I find often build over-height or at least very up to height, whereas unaffiliated and BE can vary hugely! I dont know why they cant just make say 90% of the course to spot on what is said in the schedule. If they want to weed out a big class, then simply make it more technical as thats where the skill is rather than who can jump the biggest.
 
I've been to a number of unaf show jumping competitions and often find them built bigger than they're meant to be. I once did a two phase and the whole xc phase (on surface) was built well under height so to ake up for it they bunged the show jumps up
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So instead of being 2ft6 the showjumping was more like 2ft9 and shoved into a tiny arena - was not pleased and pony didn't go well as he's only small lol.
 
Forgive me if this sounds really stupid (i haven't competed much
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) but i've always been told that you should be able to very confidently jump 'x' inches (or however much, i'm sure it's different for different instructors etc) higher than what you are competing over. So i appreciate that must be really annoying when you were trying to build his confidence- but do you think he struggled with the higher height- did HE notice it- or is it more from a training aspect?
Sorry, more just an interest/learning thing for me.
 
we had this the weekend the class was ment to be 1m and the jumpoff was 120 scared the abosolte crape out of the kid on a novice 138cm pony and the kid is verry good a nothink realy scares her but that did
 
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I have to say one thing to the OP - if 85cm is your limit, and you weren't happy doing 90cm, what would you have done had you gone clear, and had to have done a jump off of 95cm? Just curious, sorry.

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It was unaffiliated combined training (as it does say in my original post), so there was no jump off.

I entered an 85cm class because that is the height my horse is currently happy competing at. We jump 90-105cm at home, but he is not ready to compete at that height.
 
I know it was combined training, but I'm presuming you do SJ as well? Because if so surely that means your jumping at that height if you do jump offs - maybe not competitively, but still out and about?
 
QR.

There is no excuse for a CT being over height. As already stated there is a 5cm tolerance to allow for ground / equipment variations. However in reality many course builders take advantage of that & use it where not necessary& build at 89cms rather than 84 in an 85cm class for instance.
From an organisers point of view care should be taken when writing schedules for unaffiliated shows. BSJA have schedule wording that shows must use, but these are often inappropriate for unaffiliated classes. If the schedule states max height xx cm, then that is the maximum height for that class. If you want the fences raised in the JO you need to state that it is the maximun height for the first round. If as an organiser you allow a course to be built substantially overheight & not as per the schedule if there is an accident then you could be found liable for damages.
 
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I know it was combined training, but I'm presuming you do SJ as well? Because if so surely that means your jumping at that height if you do jump offs - maybe not competitively, but still out and about?

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My horse is fast, a good turner and very careful. However, I have no interest in doing jump offs as I only SJ for training. I cannot be bothered hanging about in the warm up area, so as soon as I have done the 1st round, we go straight back to the lorry.
 
I'm not jumping anymore anyway as I have a large slipped disc so I'm hanging up Bailey's tendon boots and getting the diamante browband out the cupboard and taking up affiliated dressage instead! I agree with other peoples views on the fact that affiliated jumping is a huge leap from unaffiliated jumping, it comes as quite a shock. My fella who works as groundsman at a riding club says he finds it strange that a lot of the unaffiliated qualifying classes that are built by outside coursebuilders are made so small that when the finalists actually get to the final of said competition at another venue the fences are twice the size and width. He says its a real shame as people are totally unprepared.
 
halloween - SJ for training for what may I ask? Do you event or something and hence dont need to do jump offs? Just find it a bit odd to pay the money and then not complete the class.

applecart14 - I didnt find it a huge step when I moved to BSJA from RC stuff. But then I made sure I was jumping open level RC before doing BN BSJA! I think you just need to be jumping bigger unaffil. than the BSJA since BSJA is more up to height and built 20 times better!

For me, its not building over height which is such an issue, its more how the build the courses. Ive done the odd unaffiliated on young horses and having stupidly built non-flowing courses with things like a filler under number 1 which is going away from the door is not helpful!
 
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