Overpriced?

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Bexx

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I have found a horse that I really like, 5 years old, good cavalier blood line, good conformation and a nice attitude. He is still very green in his schooling, needs a lot of work before he would be ready to go out and compete at intro and prelim, even at local level. He has an honest jump and appears to be brave with a natural talent but this also needs work. So my question is at £4950 is he over priced? I think he is but I'm just after other opinions. Thanks :)
 
At 5 yo I would expect the horse to be sold on its potential, so depending on conformation, breeding, paces and scope, as well as trainable temperament, the figure around £5K might not be far out.
 
As a guide I paid 3.5 for a well bred iSH x warmblood rising 7 who had done local shows and unaffliliated showjumping , dressage and x country. If he had done less in then my view then he was just a nice well bred hack which is 2K tops. If affiliated then they can add value as they progress and build a record.
 
At 5, potential still stands.

Does it have nice paces, or an impressive jump? A horse with raw scope will be worth good money, regardless of what it's done, especially at 5.
 
Lolo said:
At 5, potential still stands.

Does it have nice paces, or an impressive jump? A horse with raw scope will be worth good money, regardless of what it's done, especially at 5.
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It is impossible to value this horse without seeing it because it is all about potential as Lola says. If it moves really well, makes a good shape over a fence with obvious scope and has a lovely temperament + good breeding then £5K seems cheap> I'd also be looking at the quality of the work that it's done not the quantity, too many young horses are pushed on too quickly so they make more money but long term this can cause problems, i prefer a horse that's been brought on by someone who knows what they are doing and takes their time. It's fairly easy to assess this by watching it being ridden. However, the market is very slow at the moment so lots of horses are selling more cheaply than they did, so if you like the horse, take a punt and offer a low price, they can only say no.
 
I totally agree with Martlin. A five year old, with those bloodlines is worth every penny of £5K. You are buying the potential & if all goes well you may have a brilliant horse for not much money. As for those that are saying it's worth less than £2K & it's over priced as it's not proven itself in any discipline I believe you to be totally wrong, if it had proven itself in any discipline then you would be talking considerably more money & I mean considerably more!
 
Toby_Zaphod said:
I totally agree with Martlin. A five year old, with those bloodlines is worth every penny of £5K. You are buying the potential & if all goes well you may have a brilliant horse for not much money. As for those that are saying it's worth less than £2K & it's over priced as it's not proven itself in any discipline I believe you to be totally wrong, if it had proven itself in any discipline then you would be talking considerably more money & I mean considerably more!
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Toby Z I was talking unaffiliated and did state that affiliated is a game changer in value terms. In any case I'm not totally wrong , value is in the eye of the beholder / appraiser and op asked for opinions and I gave mine.
 
oldie48 said:
It is impossible to value this horse without seeing it because it is all about potential as Lola says. If it moves really well, makes a good shape over a fence with obvious scope and has a lovely temperament + good breeding then £5K seems cheap> I'd also be looking at the quality of the work that it's done not the quantity, too many young horses are pushed on too quickly so they make more money but long term this can cause problems, i prefer a horse that's been brought on by someone who knows what they are doing and takes their time. It's fairly easy to assess this by watching it being ridden. However, the market is very slow at the moment so lots of horses are selling more cheaply than they did, so if you like the horse, take a punt and offer a low price, they can only say no.
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Thank goodness you said that, thought I was living on a parallel universe.

Unless you've seen or know the horse, it's value can't be judged from it's age and lack of winnings.

Mind you, wonder if the sellers of the youngsters I've just been viewing might drop from upwards of £20K to £2K tops ?:D
 
horserider said:
Thank goodness you said that, thought I was living on a parallel universe.

Unless you've seen or know the horse, it's value can't be judged from it's age and lack of winnings.

Mind you, wonder if the sellers of the youngsters I've just been viewing might drop from upwards of £20K to £2K tops ?:D
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HHO pricing is a very strange place. If it's not your horse, it's not worth jack is the general answer ;)

Seriously. In 2 years time I'd wager this horse could fetch double that price if it's produced well this year- that's what the owner is selling. Obviously it could be a total dud but you pay your money and take the risk.
 
Twinkley Lights said:
Horses for courses Horserider you are lucky to be able to view upwards of £20K horses most can't.
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LOL. You don't need to be rich to click on a web page.

Incidentally, as Lolo points out, a couple of years work could quadruple the value. There's a 6 year old with similar blood lines selling for £22,500 after an amateur owner put 2 years work in. Very nice too.
 
You need to ask yourself if you've managed to find a similar horse for £2k as others are suggesting.

I dont disagree that there are some out there but if the horse is as nice as you said it was then £5k is probably not far off - its only worth what someone is willing to pay after all. You can of course spend time and travelling looking for a similar cheaper one.
Personally I would of thought about a grand less but then I've not had the joy of looking for one recently (thank goodness).
 
I wouldn't have the knowledge to 'tell' a horse was worth 5,000 with potential, I know nothing about breeding, or beyond basic conformation! but it is true that for some well bred horses that is a bargain, at least at 5 you have a better idea than at 2 as they are pretty much fully grown and it's I presume been backed without major behavioural issues that some of the best bred can have.

I would always want someone who is more experienced to take a look, 5,000 would be a rip off for some horses and an absolute bargain for others.
 
I would say he's priced correctly...If he has potential. The warmblood horses we are used to dealing with are around 7.000 unbroken as 4 year olds. Obviously a difference in breeding but I don't think 5k is a lot.....especially as you can crack on with him.
 
I paid a just over 5k for my mare at a 6yo with great dressage breeding with some nice jumper lines in there too. She was imported, backed and broken. Done one dressage test with promising feedback from judge, jumped DC round a BN on a BSJA day ticket being a bit wobbly but confident and some light xc schooling. Her schooling was very green but she'd only been under saddle 5 months so what else can I expect? She had impeccable manners and was very happy in the yard she was being ridden at and had a great temperament.
However this was 6years ago so I'm not sure how that compares now.
Still have her and at the end of the day, the horse may be considered to be worth a certain amount, but it's only really worth what someone is prepared to pay for it.
 
Toby_Zaphod said:
I totally agree with Martlin. A five year old, with those bloodlines is worth every penny of £5K. You are buying the potential & if all goes well you may have a brilliant horse for not much money. As for those that are saying it's worth less than £2K & it's over priced as it's not proven itself in any discipline I believe you to be totally wrong, if it had proven itself in any discipline then you would be talking considerably more money & I mean considerably more!
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This.

You seem to be looking for a potential eventer, and with the attributes you have already mentioned, temperament, conformation and breeding then £5k is very reasonable.
 
It also pays to note that just because a horse is out of your price range doesn't mean it is overpriced... Not directed at you OP, just a general observation.
 
I think that is a pretty reasonable price.

It is all down to the horses potential and peoples abilities to spot it.

Molly cost me £400, but when a very good dressage rider friend saw her paces, she asked me what change I got from £5k for an unstarted rising 4 yr old. That was before she knew of the Sandro Hit bloodline. Molly was just a homebred to her inexperienced owner. She did a wonderful job with creating a beauty, but didn't know that and I got a bargain...even after I told her she was worth considerably more, she had already turned 12 people down and said she liked the way I was with her.

That £400 has the potential to turn itself into £4000 right now if I wanted to sell her as a backed 4 yr old. I don't...she will stay with me in training until she is 6-7 by which time she could be worth triple that if i'm lucky. If I'm not, no problem...I only paid £400 for her.

If this horse had those bloodlines and was a nice mover and was priced at under 2k, I would be seriously concerned that something was wrong with it.
 
When I was looking late last year, kept being told people can't give horses away, yet everything I looked at under 2k was either lame, insane or some other obvious health issue.
Eventually upped my search price & went to view a lovely 4k horse. Luckily they were desperate to sell & we settled at 2.5k (bearing in mind this was start of winter). I think in spring they would have got their money.
Starting to ramble, but what I think I'm trying to say is cheap horses are often cheap for a reason, there are bargains, but a good horse will still fetch good money even in this market, its the ones with issues that are being given away.
 
Twinkley Lights said:
As a guide I paid 3.5 for a well bred iSH x warmblood rising 7 who had done local shows and unaffliliated showjumping , dressage and x country. If he had done less in then my view then he was just a nice well bred hack which is 2K tops. If affiliated then they can add value as they progress and build a record.
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Is this the one that has been a bit quirky and been with a pro though?
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=619079

5k wouldn't seem unreasonable for a nice well bred unspoilt 5 yo to me.
 
If you think about it in terms of how much this horse has cost to breed and keep let alone train I think 5k is reasonable, if as others have said it's nicely put together and shows promise - I don't know about anyone else but a horse costs on average 1k a year just to keep so a 5yr old that has potential and has had schooling 5k is perfectly reasonable!!
 
Impossible to price this horse on that description alone. The horse could be a rip off, about right or a complete bargain! It all depends on its quality and potential to train on
 
If somebody buys it at that price then it is not overpriced. If it doesn't sell, then it is overpriced. Horses are not like lettuces; there is no way of valuing them except by what the market will bear.
 
I don't think that is out of the way money for a 5yo with good bloodlines, potential, temperament and no other issues. The only thing you have to ask yourself is whether you can buy the same thing cheaper and therefore whether it is worth it to you.

A horse is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it, and if the horse is as you describe then I can think of a few people who would spend 4.5-5k on it.

But it depends what that particular horse is worth to you.
 
pippixox said:
I wouldn't have the knowledge to 'tell' a horse was worth 5,000 with potential, I know nothing about breeding, or beyond basic conformation! but it is true that for some well bred horses that is a bargain, at least at 5 you have a better idea than at 2 as they are pretty much fully grown and it's I presume been backed without major behavioural issues that some of the best bred can have.

Any horse can have a behavioural problem, not just "well bred" horses. some stallions produce offspring that are talented but "hot" rather than having "major behavioural issues" it's when these horses end up with riders that can't cope with them that they start having problems.
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