Overweight Pony, and refusing to stand!

[Omarkiam]

I have just purchased a Welsh Section D gelding, he is 14.2hh, and an absolute dream in nearly everyway apart from a couple of things...

1st Question - How to help him lose weight?
He is massive, and even has fat pockets either side of his withers, just near the top of his front legs, not sure if you can see them in the pictures.
He came to me this big, and apparently wasn't hayed or fed for months, and that the grass was enough despite having little grazing (I saw the field he was in), but now he shares with 4 other horses who all get fed so I have no choice but to feed him aswell, so I am giving him a small scoop of chaf, a small handful of speedibeet, & half a cup of pony nuts, just something for him to have whilst others are eating, and he also gets a small handful of hay, a slice gets thrown in for all of them and they share it.
I know exercise is key but before he was doing up to 2 hours every day! He was being used at a riding school and would do long hacks out across the forest nearly everyday, with only the odd day off.
I just can't for the life of me think how to get this weight off him? Not feeding him is not an option really, so what work could help?


2nd Question - He has a reluctance too stand still when out, he is fine to mount, he is fine to stop when we are home, but whilst out, he is quite difficult to keep still should we need too, such as dog walks passing etc. Yesterday he actually reared twice in refusal too stand, and I bought him too get my confidence back, and this has begun to worry me, as now I worry everytime we need to stand whether he is actually going to stand! Any ideas?

Thanks in advance!

He does not look too overweight in these pictures, but in the flesh he is, and everyone of my friends has commented straight away on his weight!

 

[team barney]

How long was he in the riding school? They can become a little institutionalised - for want of a better word - with the existence and have difficulties once in a more everyday environment.

Regarding the reluctance to stand still have you had his back/saddle checked?

 

[Jennyharvey]

I have just purchased a Welsh Section D gelding, he is 14.2hh, and an absolute dream in nearly everyway apart from a couple of things...

1st Question - How to help him lose weight?
He is massive, and even has fat pockets either side of his withers, just near the top of his front legs, not sure if you can see them in the pictures.
He came to me this big, and apparently wasn't hayed or fed for months, and that the grass was enough despite having little grazing (I saw the field he was in), but now he shares with 4 other horses who all get fed so I have no choice but to feed him aswell, so I am giving him a small scoop of chaf, a small handful of speedibeet, & half a cup of pony nuts, just something for him to have whilst others are eating, and he also gets a small handful of hay, a slice gets thrown in for all of them and they share it.
I know exercise is key but before he was doing up to 2 hours every day! He was being used at a riding school and would do long hacks out across the forest nearly everyday, with only the odd day off.
I just can't for the life of me think how to get this weight off him? Not feeding him is not an option really, so what work could help?


2nd Question - He has a reluctance too stand still when out, he is fine to mount, he is fine to stop when we are home, but whilst out, he is quite difficult to keep still should we need too, such as dog walks passing etc. Yesterday he actually reared twice in refusal too stand, and I bought him too get my confidence back, and this has begun to worry me, as now I worry everytime we need to stand whether he is actually going to stand! Any ideas?

Thanks in advance!

He does not look too overweight in these pictures, but in the flesh he is, and everyone of my friends has commented straight away on his weight!

Sometimes just adjusting the diet, perhaps reducing grass intake may help to cut back on calories. Also, if he has fat pockets on him, it might be worth checking he isnt insulin resistant. Fat pockets, filled above the eyes and a crest all indicate possible insulin resistance. Take him off anything that contains molasses, like the chaff and pony nuts. He really doesnt need it. A bit of speedy beet would do him fine i reckon. Up the exercise too. More hacking, if possible, id rather have a horse exercised more than starved.

As for the standing still problem, perhaps teach him the one rein stop. the thing is, with a horse that can rear, the last thing you want is to pull both reins, as this can cause the horse to go up, especially if he is worried and feels the need to keep moving. The one rein stop will allow you to stop him moving forward, and because his head is around to your boot, he cant rear as easily.

It should be taught in a safe place at first, and as soon as you can stop easily this way, you should be able to try it out and about. Obviously not around traffic as a horse turning in circles isnt great on the roads. But ideally the horse should learn to stand quietly with his neck bent, so if he really refused to stop, he can only walk in a circle as apposed to possibly rearing on you. To teach a horse to stop and stand perfectly still takes time and patience, but the horse can learn to stand well using this method. Obviously you want to be able to stop using two reins also, so maybe work on your halts out on roads and some scary things, in a controlled way, so he learns to listen to you, and to trust what you say.

 

[jhoward]

he really doesnt look fat in thoose pictures.,

if he is then im sorry if i sound harsh but personally id move hell and high water to prevent a fat pony and lami. so one of the only answers i have is move him and stop feeding him

could you section him off at feed times?

other option is up his work load.

 

[jhoward]

sorry just to add, looking and reading again you say fat pockets.. top of his fron legs and either side of his withers. from what i see thes are normal areas.

please dont think me patronising, but are you experianced with horses? general question, no offence ment.,

 

[beeswax]

i dont think he is fat, he doesnt have a pot belly or a cresty neck i would say he is just fine but if you do not work him enough or overfeed him he will get fat. what you are suggesting for feed is far too much he doesnt need the pony nuts and a sprinkle of soaked speedi beet to moisten up the 1/2 scoop of chaff is plenty. Plus the hay ofcourse. The rearing could be that you were pulling too hard on his mouth without realising this, you are trying to make him stand and you are doing it by pulling him to stand still and you are hurting his mouth so he is going to rear to get away from it. Not always the horse at fault.

 

[Omarkiam]

The pictures do not reflect his general shape very well atall, In the flesh he does look fairly different. I am not ''inexperienced'' no. Its just he is overweight and it seems to be finding other places to fill rather than just his stomach, as for laminitis he was massive last year, and still not laminitic, there is very little chance of that, on top of that we have pretty sparse grazing so he won't get any bigger. I will adjust his workload and try something different, as for one rein stop, thats a good idea and I will try it on him tomorrow. His back has been checked, and I have tried both saddle and bareback riding and he has done it on both occasions. Saddle is an adjustable one that has always fitted fine so don't think it is this. I shall continue to try adjusing workload and will cutout anything with mollasses. I didnt think feeding speedibeet on its own was wise? An old myth I heard from friends of friends was that any beet or pony nuts fed on their own can be bad for digestion?

 

[Omarkiam]

i dont think he is fat, he doesnt have a pot belly or a cresty neck i would say he is just fine but if you do not work him enough or overfeed him he will get fat. what you are suggesting for feed is far too much he doesnt need the pony nuts and a sprinkle of soaked speedi beet to moisten up the 1/2 scoop of chaff is plenty. Plus the hay ofcourse. The rearing could be that you were pulling too hard on his mouth without realising this, you are trying to make him stand and you are doing it by pulling him to stand still and you are hurting his mouth so he is going to rear to get away from it. Not always the horse at fault.

I have always been very light handed, and use more my voice and seat, with very little rein encouragement so I don't think that applies to me!

 

[snopuma]

Just out of interest, How old is your horse? the back looks like most in there late 20's, or maybe its the result of a hard life in the riding school?

Any way, doesn't look fat to me, just looks like an older horse, or a high miler?

 

[Omarkiam]

Hi Sno, he is 13 rising 14, his back is a little dipped but he was not used in the riding school for long, only used for 6 or so months

 

[Fii]

He really does'nt look fat to me in your photo's.
If you were to run your hands over him ( prod him gently with your fingers) do you feel fat or muscle?
Sometimes it is better to check for fat this way, rather than just use your eyes.

 

[RPM]

Hi,

I have a Welsh D the same age as yours but bigger (15.3). I don't think your pony is fat and he doesn't look like he has a cresty neck, but I can see the fat roll you are talking about. It could be a sign he is insulin resistant.

I've had a lot of success feeding Allen and Page Fast Fibre as it is very low sugar and starch.

As regards the not standing still, maybe try rewarding him with a treatvwhen he does stand even for a short while. My cob was terrible about standing when he was out, especially if I had to remount, but he is now very good.

As regards his back, I had several saddles that definitely did not suit my horse before the one I got now, so that might be worth checking again.

 

[intouch]

Please don't take this as criticism as I am only going by the photos and obviously cant see him in real life.
In all 3 photos his front legs are back behind the vertical which would suggest to me that he has heel pain.
The way his scapula is right up to his withers suggests very week sling muscles (the muscles that hold his barrel between his front legs)
The dip in front of his quarters could suggest kidney problems.
Please note I am not diagnosing, just possibilities.
If he were mine I would get a muscle worker to have a look at him, Bowen, Equine Touch, McTimony etc, you could save a lot of concern with one or two treatments, I do think you would see a difference.
He looks a real nice type, I feel he is just a bit uncomfortable in himself.

 

[mcnaughty]

I am going to join the crew of saying that he is not fat. Can you take a picture from behind though to show his rump please.

Rearing - I agree with whoever said lighter hands. This is the usual cause for rearing - what bit does he have?

 

[foxy1]

I didnt think feeding speedibeet on its own was wise? An old myth I heard from friends of friends was that any beet or pony nuts fed on their own can be bad for digestion?

I'm not sure who told you this but it's rubbish. You would be far better off feeding speedibeet rather than mollassed chaff.

Your pony doesn't really look overweight to me either but maybe the photos are deceiving?

 

[Omarkiam]

I am going to join the crew of saying that he is not fat. Can you take a picture from behind though to show his rump please.

Rearing - I agree with whoever said lighter hands. This is the usual cause for rearing - what bit does he have?

I have already said I ride with very light hands, and use more my seat and voice, and as a last resort my reins, so it wont be this, he is ridden in a normal snaffle bit.

As for the problems suggested by a previous poster, a friend of mine who I bought him from, said she was open to vetting as he had a 5 stage vetting and passed when she bought him, so I cant see its a long term problem? Maybe something thats appeared in the last year I guess?

Ill change feed to speedibeet and try this, he is in no pain from what I can see because he can be mounted from the floor or from block, and will do all gaits with ease, and he will stand when he reaches home, and on a very RARE occasion when we are out, particuarly if I am on the ground and someone else is riding him, its almost like that way he feels safe but im not too sure... Ill keep people updated.

 

[Omarkiam]

He really does'nt look fat to me in your photo's.
If you were to run your hands over him ( prod him gently with your fingers) do you feel fat or muscle?
Sometimes it is better to check for fat this way, rather than just use your eyes.

Thank you, yeah I will try that today, Ill try get some better shots of the fat pockets, they are very unusual and neither myself or any of my horsey friends have come across them before! If absolutely necessary I will get a vet out to give him a once over, but he is not lame in anyway, shows no sign of resistance if I were to get off whilst out and re mount he would stand dead still, its just the actual stopping, especially when we reach the open forest he gets reluctant too stand but doesnt take off if asked to trot and so forth. I will try and do a video of him today to maybe give you an idea of his conformation better

 

[Omarkiam]

Sorry for the 3rd post! I just came across this photo,but will get a better one today

 

[bedbug]

I have had a good look at the photos and he doesn't look to be carrying weight in the usual places. There does appear to be maybe a fat pocket on his rump in the first picture but he does not have a cresty neck, you can see his hips, he looks like his withers are noticeable from his shoulders and he hasn't got a gutter. It is though difficult to properly judge from a photo, hands on and being able to look from different angles are the only real way to do it.

To be honest to me it looks like he is a typical riding school pony in that he has not been asked to work properly so he doesn't have the muscle tone in the places you normally see.

If you want to feed him something when the others get fed feed him a couple of hands of molasees free chaff, this also has the added benefit of if you need to add supplements or anything it is easy to do so. Don't think you have to give him enough food for him to eat for the same time as other horses, my D has chipmonk cheeks and gets as much into his mouth as quick as he can.

If you want to start to define his muscle tone and you mainly hack him out then rather than wandering along ask him to collect under you and walk out briskly, if you have hills you can ride up then use these.

With regard to not standing look at it from his point of view, he has spent the last 6 months going round and round a school in lessons, he is now out and about and wants to get on with enjoying it. Section D's have a strong sense of fairness, the rears are most likely down to frustration, he wants to get on and see what is around the next corner and you are making him stand still, as some one suggested maybe the odd little treat in your pocket so when you ask him to stand he gets a treat....if he is anything like my section D he has no patience at all when we are out hacking.

Finally enjoy, far to many of us these days spend so much of our time worrying about every little thing and what others might or do say that we forget we do this for fun not self recrimination.

 

[team barney]

I saw you said he is rising 14, have you had this confirmed by a vet? I wouldn't be surprised if he were a bit older as he back looks quiet weak and he seems to have lost muscle pattern like an older (20+) horse.
He doesn't look too fat in any of the pictures, though in my opinion he doesn't look fully comfortable in himself.
I'd suggest getting him a nice thick saddle pad (sheepskin/gel/suber) I think it would make him a lot comfier though his back and you could find that his problems ease off.

 

[foxy1]

Still not looking overweight, even from behind.

Are you feeding a good supplement to make sure he is getting all the vitamins and minerals he needs?

 

[xRobyn]

I'd have him checked for EMS as a previous poster has said. The fact he doesn't look fat to me but you state he has fat pockets suggests it could be more than just being a bit chubby (which he doesn't).

 

[Omarkiam]

I have had a good look at the photos and he doesn't look to be carrying weight in the usual places. There does appear to be maybe a fat pocket on his rump in the first picture but he does not have a cresty neck, you can see his hips, he looks like his withers are noticeable from his shoulders and he hasn't got a gutter. It is though difficult to properly judge from a photo, hands on and being able to look from different angles are the only real way to do it.

To be honest to me it looks like he is a typical riding school pony in that he has not been asked to work properly so he doesn't have the muscle tone in the places you normally see.

If you want to feed him something when the others get fed feed him a couple of hands of molasees free chaff, this also has the added benefit of if you need to add supplements or anything it is easy to do so. Don't think you have to give him enough food for him to eat for the same time as other horses, my D has chipmonk cheeks and gets as much into his mouth as quick as he can.

If you want to start to define his muscle tone and you mainly hack him out then rather than wandering along ask him to collect under you and walk out briskly, if you have hills you can ride up then use these.

With regard to not standing look at it from his point of view, he has spent the last 6 months going round and round a school in lessons, he is now out and about and wants to get on with enjoying it. Section D's have a strong sense of fairness, the rears are most likely down to frustration, he wants to get on and see what is around the next corner and you are making him stand still, as some one suggested maybe the odd little treat in your pocket so when you ask him to stand he gets a treat....if he is anything like my section D he has no patience at all when we are out hacking.

Finally enjoy, far to many of us these days spend so much of our time worrying about every little thing and what others might or do say that we forget we do this for fun not self recrimination.

Thank you for that post, its helpful, althought as a riding school pony he was there for about 6 months if that, and he did hacks out across the forest alone and in company, he was never just stuck in a school! He did up to 2 hours hacking out everyday across the forest!!

I may get a vet out too check him over but as for age, I have his passport which has his date of birth on anyway, and its a good friend of mine and ive always trusted her.

I do thank you all for replies and I am going to try everyones different ideas, starting with a change in routine and feed (slowly), then I will try new ideas, if after a couple of weeks to a month he does not appear even just slightly more ''relaxed'' ill get a vet out for a once over and go from there

 

[missieh]

I would suggest that this pony is in his 20s, suggested by his overall shape. Have a look at his teeth. I would give him plenty of hay... Always worse to overfeed and at this time of the year he should not need hard feed. That should help both problems. Good luck

 

[indie999]

I have a get fat on air cob. Your pony doesnt look too fat to me either(mine blows up just looking at grass) but I do feed him poor quality hay(i dont mean bad dusty hay) and do not starve him if he needs restricting. Bulk & less calories is what I do, if that makes sense. I usually know if mine is fat by in particular looking from behind him, if I can feel ribs unlikely if fat etc, crest neck alarm bells definitely.

I have had to electric fence him strip graze if I am that worried, even if in a field with others. My old boys back has dipped he is 23 years but my farrier said add on 5! We have no DOB! When my horses were passported the vet documented age unknown even though I thought I knew! I think I was lied to when I bought him at supposedly 13 years!

Good luck lots of advice to look into.

 

[littlemisslauren]

Sorry, havent had a chance to read the whole thread.

His fieldmates getting a feed does not mean you need to feed yours. Either chase him away when the others are fed or catch him and hold him away from them. It really isn't hard!

 

[superpony]

I'd have him checked for EMS as a previous poster has said. The fact he doesn't look fat to me but you state he has fat pockets suggests it could be more than just being a bit chubby (which he doesn't).

I'd also get this checked, this is what my welsh has and he had fat pockets.

And sorry but another who thinks he looks older than 14..

 

[Miss L Toe]

Personally I would say this horse is aged, remember that passports were a recent introduction, get your vet out this week to give him a thorough examination, and have his teeth rasped.
sorry to say, but you may have been misled by the vendor.
If the vet says he is overweight then ask for advice, feed Dengie Mollasses free chaff if he needs to lose weight, personally I would want to build condition and muscle so would be feeding Allen and Page plus walking.
and walk him at least an hour per day.
Ask the farrier for his advise too, make sure he is shod every six weeks.
btw, Our local vet has never ever given a horse over 15 years a full pass on a five stage vetting.

 

[ofcourseyoucan]

sorry but i dont think he looks fat at all, actually a little poor for his type. he looks a lot older than 13/14 but that could just be his conformation. i would give him a good worming (5 day panacur guard or a double dose to do tape worm) and get his teeth done.