Owner not paying bills - what should we do? legal advise?

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LouB

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I'll try and keep it brief- an owner of a horse of ours has not paid his bill for a while. Sadly the horse broke down whilst racing and we have not heard a word from him since (approx 4 weeks ago) . The bill is now over £3k and this is money we cannot afford not to write off. That said, I adore the horse and my O/H has said he would waive the bill in return for the horse becoming ours. The horse is not worth £3k now he is broken and therefore we cannot afford to let the bill get any bigger.

The owner will not return our calls and messages. What should we do next? Write a letter? Do we have any rights in so far as claiming the horse in lieu of the bill? I want to write 'we have tried several times to contact you and if you don't respond or contact us within 28 days we will assume you no longer wish to own the horse and he will become our property in lieu of the outstanding bill' or something to that effect. Can I do this?

Any advice would be gratefully appreciated as this is a big black cloud over us. We have worked really hard with this horse and never charged him much, it makes me really cross people can just not pay their bills without a conscience. We have had issues with late payment before but after much nagging he has coughed up but sometimes it takes us to threaten taking the horse out of training before the money appears. Now the horse is broken I can't see us ever hearing from him again.
 
Small claims court?!

Did you have a contract? In Lien is an option if so, but not straightforward. Contact a solicitor? Or give it up and keep the horse.

Our vet reckons he writes off £65k in unpaid bills each year so it may not pay to pursue it.

Good luck
 
It does happen, a fair but in fact. And yes it is legal to do so. Just make sure that you keep a record of all the bills and any contact that you have tried to make. Plus get the passport
 
Don't you have a contract with the owners? Surely this would be covered as it must be quite a common problem. Sometimes you used to see in the Sales a horse for sale "To settle a debt."

A letter by registered post would be a good idea, giving them so many days to settle the debt" - but you really need professional advice.
 
If the horse was in training and he has other horses in training then he will have a Weatherby's account. Get in touch with them and they will try to help you out.
 
The issue is the horse is still in our care, therefore bill mounting up. However, I am not going to deliver the horse to him and waive the bill.

I am happy to keep the horse but just wondered if there was a point/timescale at which he would legally become our property?
 
Unfortunately, it is not quite that straightforward. He is only in trainging pointing, therefore Weatherbys can't help us.

We do have the passport and the horse is registered in our name however I don't believe this is proof of ownership.
 
You haven't answered whether you have a contract with this owner or not for livery/training/professional fees?

Depending on what that says might help get you some answers. Personally I'd call the BHS legal helpline if you are a member and see what they say, or your equine insurers if they provide this.
 
and there is no time period that the ownership would pass to you. Speak to CAB if you are not able to talk to the BHS helpline and get a simple letter drafted giving (eg) 14 days for full payment or after that period you reserve the right to sell the horse to cover the costs of the bills. However if you want to keep the horse it would definately be worth checking your legal position or you could be in for a long fight if the owner decides he wants the horse back.
 
Please don't go to the cab for something this specialist or complex as I work with people who have been misinformed by them and now risk ccj as a result. They do a great job with day to day issues but for something this specialist u need a solicitor not a volunteer who has received basic training. If u keep full record of communication and give reasonable time to pay I see no problem.
 
From a practical point of view, your best course of action is to send him a couple of registered letters saying if you don't hear by such-a-date, you will sell the horse to recover some of your loss and sue him for the remainder, and let him know his bill is continuing. Obviously, you want to keep the horse so if he doesn't respond, I suppose you'll feel like it belongs to you. The longer it goes on, the less chance he'll want to pay you and I expect you'll not get paid and end up with the broken (albeit lovely) horse!
 
Clippy said:
From a practical point of view, your best course of action is to send him a couple of registered letters saying if you don't hear by such-a-date, you will sell the horse to recover some of your loss and sue him for the remainder, and let him know his bill is continuing. Obviously, you want to keep the horse so if he doesn't respond, I suppose you'll feel like it belongs to you. The longer it goes on, the less chance he'll want to pay you and I expect you'll not get paid and end up with the broken (albeit lovely) horse!
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There is no point doing this as a broken down pointer is to be frank only worth meet money so you are essentially offering to settle his bill for £250-400! Write a registered letter with a contract inside stating that you wish to come to an arrangemnet whereby the horse is signed over to you in lieu of the bill and there will be no claim on the horse after the date on which he is signed over. Or if he insists on retaining the horse said horse will be returned to his possession but passport witheld (so cannot even go to meat man with him) until such time as the bill is settled or a payment plan is in place. You have to offer the payment plan to cover yourselves as this will be seen as reasonable conduct. If you are going down a payment plan route make sure it is a direct debit! Most trainers over here that are running into trouble are going with either of these options but given that this horse is broken down you are the guts of a year away from being able to see a return from the horse so if you know this guy actually has the money then you could retain horse for 50% of bill and look for payment for the rest
 
If he doesn't reply or sign the contract, you're back to square one and faced with taking him to Court which adds months to your misery. If it were me, i'd want it settled quickly, even if it meant losing money - but I don't like having things hanging over me :(
 
LouB said:
The issue is the horse is still in our care, therefore bill mounting up. However, I am not going to deliver the horse to him and waive the bill.

I am happy to keep the horse but just wondered if there was a point/timescale at which he would legally become our property?
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Personally, I would write to him at the address you have on file and state tha unless the bill is paid in full within 7 working days you will take ownership of the horse. Make sure you send it by Special Delivery. Post a copy of the letter to yourself and keep it (unopened) as back up for the date you posted it and its content. I presume that as the keeper of the horse, you have the passport, and so can get ownership transferred?
 
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It's a can of worms really, the owner in question does not want the horse traced back to him, all payment is in cash. To be honest, we thought that none of our business, we have kept a note of all of our bills and the money he has paid. That is why the horse is registered with Weatherbys in our name and we have the passport. Hence, no chance of a contract.

The horse may be broken, but he is young and showed much promise before his last run, with the owner turning down £17k for a half share. I don't if he will ever stand up to racing again but he would make a lovely fun horse for me and would be worth the 3k for that purpose.

There are obvious reasons he does not want the horse connected to him so perhaps I am worrying about nothing. Fighting us for the horse would probably end up costing him more in the long run.

I will go down the letter route, thank you for all of your advice, I really appreciate it. I don't expect to hear from him, I just don't want to be looking over my shoulder in the years to come, expecting him to claim him at any moment. Especially should we ever consider selling the horse on.
 
If his passport is in your name, does the owner have any legal rights to him, other than your good will? Would he even recognise the horse if it was out in a field with a herd? Just a thought...........
 
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