Owning own livery/competition yard!

[peterthepony]

Hi, i wonder if anyone could help me, im 17 and am going to college for another 2 years and have been thinking about running my own livery/competition yard when i have left college etc, but i was just wondering what is needed for a good yard and how long it takes to get up and running?
Thanks in advance
Rhianne xxxx

 

[Helena88]

what is needed? a lot of money i'd guess. livery yards seldom make much of a profit, and on the competition side, if it was for you to compete you'd need owners, unless you could afford to buy horses.

personally what i like to see is a professional looking yard, with all the mod cons - arenas, indoor and out, horse walkers, etc, with polite but professional staff, etc.

 

[peterthepony]

Thanks very much Helena

 

[Rambo]

A good competition record would help

Echo the 'lots of money' sentiment too

 

[MillionDollar]

I've just turned 20, have been at college for 2 years doing a BA (Hons) Equine and Business Management Degree, and just going into my 3rd and final year. I have owned horses for 11 years, currently having 5. I am hoping to set my own livery yard up next year, which is very very scary! lol. I am lucky as i live on a farm with a family which understands and supports me with diversifying the farm and investing in the new business.

Doing lots and lots of research i have found people just want a nice modern yard with good facilities and someone who they can rely on to do their horse from time to time.

You need lots of money (or investment), knowledge, dedication and motivation. I am under no illusion that i will be working very hard and long hours, but i have been planning this since i was 12 so i am dedicated.

Just belive in yourself and remember you can do it and you will succeed.

 

[lizstuguinness]

id be careful regarding your age. i personaly wouldnt want to see a yard run/owned by anyone under 25 as the financial and marketing sence just wouldn to be there. i also found this sentiment eccoed in lots of other riders. its no reflection on you, its just that you could be to young to trust.

i keep my mare at a farm with 25 converted loose boxes, outdoor school, tonns of off road riding. no other mod cons (like horse walker - not needed anyway in my opionion), they spent about £80,000 and after 4 years have made a profit of £12.56 !!!!!!!
they were putting EVERY penny back into the bank loan, but hopefuly that will give you an idea.
approx ideas of prices:
land will cost upwards of £10,000 p/acre
stables around £1500 each plus the base,
water and electric connection costs about £2000 p/meter (costed from nearest sorce to where you want it), planning permission, business rates, depreciation costs, outdoor school around £30,000. fencing (electric probably best) and there is loads more.
depending on a area/facilities/service you will be looking at £25 - £35p/w.
just a thought in regard to your age, i doubt a bank would lend this sort of money to someone that is "unproven", so your best bet would be to rent a yard with facilities, but make sure you find out why they want to rent it out to you and not run it themselfs! (just in case they couldnt make it work)

 

[Tia]

I have to agree with Liz on this; I can't imagine too many people being happy to leave their horses in the care of someone so young, sorry.

I owned a livery yard in the UK, and I now own one on a smaller scale out here in Canada. I'll only speak about the UK business as my Canadian one is of no relevance. In the UK it was very easy for me to get clients - I knew a lot of people and when I opened we were pretty much full within about a month. My very first customer was my very last customer to leave when I told them all we were moving to Canada. My livery customers were just the best and most of them were with me for at least 4 years. Good customers are what you are looking for!! They are absolutely worth their weight in gold!! Look after them well and you won't have any trouble.


Here are some pointers which worked for me:

Very good sound vet knowledge was certainly high on the priorities of my clients, as was years of general horse experience. Mine liked our nice large airy stables and decent sized and well maintained pasture fields; none were smaller than 5 acres.

Don't pack too many horses in - customers like having plenty of grazing for their horses and my guys liked the fact that we had different fields for Spring and Summer and then the horses came into their winter paddocks during the cold, wet months.

Use only good quality hay and feedstuffs - don't scrimp as owners will notice and not be happy.

Help owners if they ask for it, but don't push your opinions onto them without their asking (except in cases of neglect or deep concern).

If any trouble brews between any boarders try to remain impartial BUT do take the bull by the horns and try to mediate.

Never gossip about other boarders with anyone else on your yard. If you have an issue with anyone, go straight to them to air your concerns or gripes.

I did make a good profit on my livery stables, however I never took a wage from it as I ploughed it straight back into our property and when we sold the property to move here was when we realised the profit.

Be honest, truthful, knowledgeable and have a happy disposition and you won't go too far wrong. Very best of luck!

 

[Bossanova]

Youre best to get a head girls job for a few years, learn how the entire business works and how it struggles financially. Once you have something on your CV and more of a name for yourself and youre still prepared to throw a lot of money at it, then re-consider

 

[MillionDollar]

Can i just say that ...

Firstly i have loads and loads of people wanting to keep their horse at my potential livery yard! I'm always being asked.

Secondly i will not be having a bank loan so no interest payments, and that yard who has only made £12 profit must have a huge interest rate, not many clients or are doing something wrong. I'm not expecting to make huge profits but make a decent living.

Thirdly i'm only going to do DIY, with a few (1 or 2) Part liveries so most people won't be leaving their horses in my care.

Also my family already own 2 farms and 600 acres so no cost in that.

Anyway how are they going to know my age, I'll be 21 when it is set up and what the hell is the difference if i'm 21 or 25?

I know this is just your opinion, but around here i am always being asked for livery already.

 

[MillionDollar]

Forgot to say i worked on a riding chool/ livery yard for 4 years. I dealt with clients and the liveries and the horses. I ran the yard on my own for 5 hours in the middle of the day. None of the 12 liveries had a problem with me caring for their horse and i was only 16 when i started. I looked after the 15 riding school horses and my boss was always pleased with my work.

 

[ihatework]

Thats fine, hope it works for you.
Your original post asked about running a competition livery yard which IMO is completely different to having a few DIY boxes!
If you want to run a serious competition yard then I'd take on board Bossanovas suggestion

 

[MillionDollar]

No that was DunandDusted, i was just replying saying what i intended to do.

 

[ihatework]

That'll teach me to read a thread properly

 

[MillionDollar]

lol, don't worry i ve done it before, it gets very confusing sometimes.

Oh and i do agree if you are going to do a competition yard then yes you do need lots of experience and knowledge. All the top names didn't just go straight into it they worked for someone else for around 5 years before.

Competition yard is very different to a DIY livery yard, lol.

 

[Laafet]

Take it from me - a 24 y o just winding up my own livery business after 14 months - its is hard work and there is little money in it. You are half way there if you are not renting but there are so many things that you will never even guess that drain money.
Also I agree with Bossonova - I have had plenty of experience, a degree and good reputation but I still get the feeling that when my old OH was around the liveries respected me more, they could not respect someone much younger than themselves. This was not done in a horrible way but just human nature.
Good luck in the future I would do it again but in a few years when I'm older and have more stable finances - coming out of uni with a huge ovedraft and student loan and starting a business was not the wisest thing to do in hindsight and working 12+ hour 7 days a week aint easy but it is often what is required to help set up a business.

 

[Tia]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway how are they going to know my age, I'll be 21 when it is set up and what the hell is the difference if i'm 21 or 25?


[/ QUOTE ] This sentence of yours has just indicated why people may be reluctant to keep their horses with someone so young.

[ QUOTE ]
Firstly i have loads and loads of people wanting to keep their horse at my potential livery yard! I'm always being asked.


[/ QUOTE ] Well there you go! You'll be making plenty money in no time!

[ QUOTE ]
I know this is just your opinion

[/ QUOTE ] Not so much my opinion; more, years of experience.

 

[peterthepony]

Thanks everyone for everything about this, but i dont see why people dont trust anyone under 25? I know quite a few people that have yards up and running and are doing well from it that are only 21/22! xx

 

[Laafet]

That life - I learnt it the hard way I may have more knowledge than a lot of the horseowners I meet but that makes no difference when it comes round to paying someone to look after their baby - incidentally I do much better with schooling liveries as they can see me in action so that helps them get over the 'but you're so young' thing. TBH I wouldn't employ anyone that was under 25 to help with my liveries as I expect a level of attention to detail and dedication that seems harder to find in those younger and having spent years fighting the tide of apathetic young people at college and trying to prove to my past employers that not all college students are lazy it is sad that I too have had to follow that thought. Even when selling horses people say 'oh you are so young (I look young BTW) and you do so much' yeah so what but if my OH or mum was there no comments were made and the horses sold. Hence my feelings that if you are young it doesn't really matter how good you are until people realise it they will always assume the worse.

 

[Laafet]

Sorry to be down but I have met loads of people who want to do what I do and are still at college because they think it is simple and good way to make money. It is damn hard and if you want to compete, get yourself a good groom to look after the yard while you are away even if it is only a day and you are ten minutes away as liveries expect you to be there and looking after their horses which is what they pay you to do.

 

[hussar]

Re the age thing, doubtless there'll be lots of sensible trustworthy 19-25yos leaping to your defence but I've been at 6 yards in the past 10 years: three went bust as the YOs, all in their early 20s, had no business sense or people skills and put their social lives ahead of their clients and the horses. It doesn't inspire confidence to come onto the yard at 8am and find the YO pi**ed from the night before. I'm not saying you would be like this but I now wouldn't go to a yard run by anyone under 25.

 

[MillionDollar]

I know its not going to be easy its going to be hard work and long hours, i will not be going drinking and i know my social life will suffer, but hopefully i will have a full yard, and when i do you'll be the first to know, lol.

 

[MillionDollar]

Also thanks for everyones advice and opinions, i do take them on board even though i may not want to hear them, lol.
But i do appreciate any advice and i do understand where everyone is coming from and you are wiser than me as you have more experience and knowledge and it will help me for the future!
So thank you!

 

[mrdarcy]

Good luck to you.

It's very tough to start from nothing and make a go of it. If you're lucky enough to have farming parents and a base to build up from then its a lot easier (though never easy). My friend (in her forties) bought a livery yard 3 years ago. She worked all the hours god sent, was full most of the time, didn't have a mortgage on it and still only just scrapped a living. She sold this year because the amount of effort she was putting in wasn't worth it for the money she was making... plus the liveries and their constant bickering were driving her mad (the humans not the horses)...

From her experience with a small yard (14 boxes) I'd say if starting out with nothing you need a business partner to help finance the start up costs (buying or renting a premises). Plus I think just relying on liveries for income is risky... you also need to do schooling liveries, buying and selling etc OR have a large yard with 30+ liveries and also the facilities to run weekly shows and training sessions. The only yards I know that make decent money are the big ones.

The only other way to do it is be a very successful competitor at the top (or near the top) of your chosen sport then you'll have people queuing up to send you their horses and come for training.

If I was you I'd get a job at a top yard... work my way up the management there until I was yard manager and knew the business back to front. Then from that position it would be easier to find a business partner to help set you up on your own, plus you'd have loads of horsey contacts and a great reputation.