Paddock Paradise possible? Else it's strip grazing!

[aradiagreen]

Hi,

I've just moved to a new paddock. Its maybe 4 acres though tbh I don't really know. It had sheep on it before, then a few weeks rest before our 3 went on. I have a 13.2hh 6yr heavy cob & a 14.2 7yr arabxISH plus my friend's 14.2hh 14yr heavy cob. They were living out 24/7.

My arabx has just come down with laminitis :-( She was just being started so not in work. She has it in all 4 feet though worse at front and is on bute and stabled during the day. I was worrying about my fat cob, not her! I tried to muzzle her overnight but she just dug at the ground frantically with her front feet which surely can't be good so removed it

My cob wears a muzzle during the day and can't seem to graze in it - just stands and mopes.

The grass is very lush. I was going to stripgraze but would prefer to set up PP if possible (though I'll need more electric fencing). The field is rented so I can't mess with it as far as putting hard standing in etc. Can I do it in a normal paddock or will it just get trashed come winter? Also I'm wouldn't know what to do with the hay in the middle!

Any suggestions much appreciated!

 

[aradiagreen]

PS: I have ordered the Paddock Paradise book! Any other sources of info recommended? I joined the FB page but they all seem to have tracks miles long on all kinds of hard dusty surfaces!

 

[Rose Folly]

This may not be what you ant to hear, but I am not a Paradise Paddock fan AT ALL, and I would be very unhappy if any tenant I might lease my land to decided to try to use it. Swayed by the enthusiasm on H & H forum I tried it 2-3 years ago. It did immeasurable damage to the structure of the ground. I saw what was happening and stopped while it was still reparable.

you don't say if you have any stabling. If you have, then shut the horses away for several hours - like 6-7, each day. Make sure they have plenty of water, and give soaked hay to stave off starvation!!

If you haven't. divide your paddock into 3 or 4 sections by means of electric tape. Give the horses 3-5 days in each paddock section. You will then always have grass of a reasonable height (bearing in mind that very short-cropped grass is more dangerous laminitic-wise then unstressed longer grass, and it saves the pasture.

If your horse is really stressed by conventional muzzles (as mine was, to the point of having to use a nebuliser mask as she gave herself panic-induced asthma attacks) invest in a Greenguard muzzle. They are not cheap, and you may need a friendly current user to help you fit it correctly (the instructions are rubbish) but they are much better than the claustrophobic bucket types, and work very well at keeping the weight off.

Paradise Paddocks are a bit of a gimmick, and there are plenty of more ground-friendly ways of keeping laminitis at bay.

 

[be positive]

You can do it in any field by fencing around the perimeter which if it is 4 acres should mean them moving around a fair way each day, you do not need any more than electric fencing and imagination to set up a system that works but if the grass is that lush it may be a good idea to get the sheep back on first.
The middle can be used for hay or left as standing grass for them to eat over winter when the goodness has reduced, allowing much of the track to recover for the following year.
The laminitic would probably be best restricted to a tiny area initially once she is allowed back out, somewhere completely bare while the rest gets eaten down, keep her on the soaked hay and make sure she is completely recovered before putting her out again.

 

[dollyanna]

I have a track on a smaller field, the width is altered according to the weather and grass growth, the centre was gradually opened up in the start of the winter for them to eat the standing hay down bit by bit then they had the whole field for the middle part of the winter. As the field dried out I sectioned it into thirds to rest the worst third, they are now alternating the other 2/3rds until the grass comes through and the ground has recovered enough to set up the track again. Mine are on a hill, they really love the track, they used to be in a field the same size or bigger but flat and weren't very active. Now they bomb around, rarely walk anyway, are in much much better condition than this time last year - they were flabby 2 year olds but are fit and toned 3 yr olds and their feet have come through the wettest winter perfect compared to being really stinky last year.
Having said that, it does take monitoring to keep on top of the ground conditions which would be easier if it were my own land and I could put down hardcore in some places, it is all too easy to trash the field. But I have got to know my field better than I would have done just using it as a field, it is really easy to poopick because I just walk around the track, and you automatically check the ground and perimeter fencing at the same time!

 

[Alyth]

Making a track around the edge of our paddocks was the best thing we have done with our land....horses have lots of room to move and the middles have been divided up and horses have them in rotation...we used electric fencing everywhere and now I would connect them to the outer fences inside polythene tubes and then place heavy logs across to protect them. That is preferable I think to digging trenches....

 

[southerncomfort]

We use a PP track during the Summer months. During the Winter the middle section is divided in to 4 and each section rested and rotated. Field is then harrowed in the Spring and then they go back on the track. Using this method we have not seen any permanent damage to the land.

It is a fantastic system for good doers and oldies too as it helps keep them active. It's even better if shelter and water are as far away from each other as possible. I've found that horses on this system very quickly develop stronger musculature and look fit and well all year round.

The only thing I would say is if the track has long grass, then to begin with I would persevere with the muzzles for at least part of the day until the grass is eaten down a bit. And if you need to feed hay on the track at any point try and spread it out along the track to keep them moving and prevent any one area becoming well worn as it were.

I would highly recommend it.

 

[ester]

Yes you can, we had a track round the edge of 3ish acres for two horses the last couple of summers (and have randomly moved bits in for more grazing as required. They definitely move more as well as having grazing restricted. We strip grazed it to start though as the whole track would be a bit much until they had eaten it down a bit.

Re. elec fencing we did have 4 hotline metal corner posts (although you could also install a wooden one then pull it out again) for the corners as otherwise it will all pull in on itself a bit)

We make hay out of the middle and then split it into 3 1 acre paddocks for winter and back to the track for spring.

 

[_HP_]

If your horse has active laminitis and is on painkillers, then she shouldn't really be out on grass at all. I would keep her in and on well soaked hay until she is sound without painkillers.
This is a very useful site...
http://www.thelaminitissite.org/

Re Paddock Paradise....I found it very useful for dealing with fatties and those prone to laminitis and have a track round the perimeter of my land for that purpose. The track may get trashed or not depending on the size and amount of horses using it. I use the track for the most part of the year and the rest in winter.

 

[TigerTail]

Also add salt to her feed - a good tablespoon there of - helps flush toxins out, and cold hosing or standing in buckets of cold water helps calm the inflammation.

I PP mine in the spring til sept/oct depending how wet it it. You can still strip by moving a post here and there but ups the exercise factor.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Lots of good advice on here, but I would add that I always mow the grass down to a short length before I turn them out on lush grazing. Either that or get sheep put on it first to graze it down.

This is relevant whether you use a paddock paradise or not.

I haven't got a fancy ride on mower, just an ordinary self propelled 21" walk behind mower with a collection box.

I posted recently on another thread, that when I recently mowed a 40m by 20m section of apparently 'bare' paddock on a medium cut, I collected a full 150L twin wheelbarrow load of compressed grass clippings :eek3:.

 

[ester]

I also wouldn't have an animal with active lami on the grass at all.

 

[aradiagreen]

I also wouldn't have an animal with active lami on the grass at all.

Hi,

My mare first showed up slightly lame on Wednesday, the day we moved (its Monday today). No one else could see it though so I thought I was wrong. Thurs she seemed fine. Friday PANIC! As soon as I got her on concrete she had that awful potter. Vet came and said had heat & bounding pulse in all feet though only slightly at the back. She said it was best not to change her routine too much! As she's lived out 24/7 for the past year. She advised keeping her in 12hrs. She's on bute for a few days to see how she goes and further meds if she doesn't improve. She didn't even suggest soaked hay though I did it anyway.

Should I keep her in? She doesn't mind too much.

Also I like the idea of mowing the grass though I don't own a mower. Can you set the amount it mows if I don't want it too short?

The farmer will go crazy if I damage his perfect field so maybe I should stick to strip grazing for now.

Oh and I bought a Greenguard muzzle first- they seem to hate it more! They either remove it whole or break the straps. Too many parts to catch on fencing! It does look far more ventilated though.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Vet came and said had heat & bounding pulse in all feet though only slightly at the back. She said it was best not to change her routine too much! As she's lived out 24/7 for the past year. She advised keeping her in 12hrs. She's on bute for a few days to see how she goes and further meds if she doesn't improve. She didn't even suggest soaked hay though I did it anyway.

Should I keep her in? She doesn't mind too much.

Also I like the idea of mowing the grass though I don't own a mower. Can you set the amount it mows if I don't want it too short?.

Jeepers, is she a horse vet? She has given very poor advice. I'm sure that a lami expert will be along shortly but she must be kept off the grass for now.

Yes you can adjust the height of the cut. You can hire petrol mowers from the usual hire places, just make sure that it has a collection box. Our half acre lawn takes about two hours to mow .

 

[cobgoblin]

I would not put the one with lami out on spring grass at all. In fact I wouldn't put the two cobs out on it 24hrs either . Is it possible for you to stable them all during the day and turn the cobs out at night with strip grazing?

 

[amandap]

Hi,

My mare first showed up slightly lame on Wednesday, the day we moved (its Monday today). No one else could see it though so I thought I was wrong. Thurs she seemed fine. Friday PANIC! As soon as I got her on concrete she had that awful potter. Vet came and said had heat & bounding pulse in all feet though only slightly at the back. She said it was best not to change her routine too much! As she's lived out 24/7 for the past year. She advised keeping her in 12hrs. She's on bute for a few days to see how she goes and further meds if she doesn't improve. She didn't even suggest soaked hay though I did it anyway.

Should I keep her in? She doesn't mind too much.

Also I like the idea of mowing the grass though I don't own a mower. Can you set the amount it mows if I don't want it too short?

The farmer will go crazy if I damage his perfect field so maybe I should stick to strip grazing for now.

Oh and I bought a Greenguard muzzle first- they seem to hate it more! They either remove it whole or break the straps. Too many parts to catch on fencing! It does look far more ventilated though.

http://www.thelaminitissite.org/laminitis.html

You may well have to re think long term management. Did the vet suggest blood tests?

 

[windand rain]

That is awful advice from your vet any horse that shows any sign of laminitis should immediately be removed from grass fed soaked hay and if they will eat it oat straw. The bedding should be deep shavings or if in a small pen outside due to claustrophobia sand to support the hooves frog supports fitted if you know how. This regime should be followed until the horse is sound for 30 days post drugs so that means if she is on drugs now ACP and bute you start the day count on the last day she has drugs. Limit movement to no bigger than 12x12 and dont be tempted to follow any advice that says exercise will make her lose weight. you then when she is ready to go out need to keep her slightly lean and well worked to avoid a relapse so limited grazing and use sugar and starch free feeds in winter

 

[aradiagreen]

That is awful advice from your vet any horse that shows any sign of laminitis should immediately be removed from grass fed soaked hay and if they will eat it oat straw. The bedding should be deep shavings or if in a small pen outside due to claustrophobia sand to support the hooves frog supports fitted if you know how. This regime should be followed until the horse is sound for 30 days post drugs so that means if she is on drugs now ACP and bute you start the day count on the last day she has drugs. Limit movement to no bigger than 12x12 and dont be tempted to follow any advice that says exercise will make her lose weight. you then when she is ready to go out need to keep her slightly lean and well worked to avoid a relapse so limited grazing and use sugar and starch free feeds in winter

In fact the vet also recommended walking her out in hand! She's on bute and I think if she doesn't improve they'll start her on ACP Vet said blood tests wouldn't likely be needed as she's young and unlikely to be caused by cushings etc. She is unshod, no supports (I had expected the vet to bring it up). She did say it was only mild. I don't have stabling for my others . They're moping in grazing muzzles at the moment.

The mare was just being started to would have started work. So I can't work her or really turn her out til 30days sound off meds? Shes's not even fat!

 

[aradiagreen]

And my friend thinks I should listen to the vet!

 

[aradiagreen]

I feel like calling the vet back! I don't understand why she said to turn her out each day and to walk her out in hand. Maybe she meant just to turn her out for a few hours but it still seems so wrong. Though tbh my mare is already hardly showing symptoms. Maybe the move stressed her and brought it on worse (though she was already very slightly lame.) I don't have shavings - she's on a ridiculously thick straw bed! & appears to prefer to eat the straw than the hay! Guess that's ok though as less nutritious. I can't believe she'll be in for over a month :-( I sat on her for the first time 2 weeks ago and was really looking forward to backing her properly.

 

[Tiddlypom]

And my friend thinks I should listen to the vet!

Normally that is the correct thing to do, and you should ignore advice given by random strangers on a forum. However, your vet has given advice that is way off what is normal for treating a laminitis attack.

 

[_HP_]

If she has bounding pulses and is lame then it's not mild...ideally she should be stabled until she is sound without painkillers. Have a look at ' the laminitis site' link. It's very informative. They have a Facebook page too.
Cushing, though unlikely at such a young age , is actually a possible as is EQUINE metabolic Syndrone.... Both of which are treatable .
It's a good idea also, to get into the habit if checking pulses on a daily basis...you'll be surprised how much low grade laminitis goes unnoticed. Better if you can catch it before it lames them.
Good luck and hope your horse improves soon

 

[amandap]

I don't have shavings - she's on a ridiculously thick straw bed! & appears to prefer to eat the straw than the hay! Guess that's ok though as less nutritious. I can't believe she'll be in for over a month :-( I sat on her for the first time 2 weeks ago and was really looking forward to backing her properly.

Straw may well be less nutritious but it's sugars and starch you need to get as low as possible. Horses still need adequate nutrition and especially when they're ill. Sorry if this sounds blunt but straw can be the last thing a horse with laminitis needs.
If you follow this Emergency diet to the letter, she may well be out and about much quicker. At some point you will need to add a decent forage balancer. http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/ddt-overview/ddt-diet

Laminitis is a serious condition and in acute stages exercize should not be forced. It is hard work and you have a lot of reading ad learning to do as this will need life long management to prevent any further episodes.

Good luck.

 

[amandap]

ps. Use un mollassed beet such as Kwik or Speedibeet and stabilized flax is micronised linseed.
Also soak hay in fresh water each time and feed plenty of s. hay.

Sorry your thread got side tracked but you need to get her symptoms under control.

 

[windand rain]

Your choice op but some vets have a peculiar attitude to laminitis so I always go by the laminitis trust dictate they are after all the experts in laminitis and have been studying it for about 20 years or more now

 

[happyclappy]

i dont use paddock paradise but i do the off shoot of the racetrack. simply fence around the edge of your field at about 6 - 10 feet wide and try to put the water at the far end. whilst your horse has laminitis though keep his area to roam small

 

[ester]

I would be questioning the vets advice on this occasion and why it is different to the norm, they may have a reason but I would want to know it if they did.

 

[Fransurrey]

My pony hated the greenguard muzzle, too. I made the hole in his best friend muzzle a little bigger and this meant he could actually eat without gorging. He also eats hay through it with no problem, so you could trickle feed her soaked hay out in a pen. I restrict grazing by size and sometimes let him have snacks out and about, along with paddock enrichment, such as tree branches or cleavers picked on my way out. I didn't keep him in when he had his attack in 2009. The stable door was too tall for him to see out! I compromised by making a pen until his symptoms subsided (pain free and off bute) and made the pen bigger and bigger each day. He had hia shettie companion for company so they both benefited from the weight loss!

 

[aradiagreen]

Firstly, thankyou so much to EVERYONE for taking the time to reply. & I'm very pleased the thread got side tracked as her health is most important to me. I did try to change the name of the thread but it seems I can't.

I immediately went to the laminitis org website when the first poster mentioned it and was amazed how different it was to my vet's advice! I have kept her in now though she is no longer lame or has bounding pulses though still has heat in her feet. She had half a packet of bute last night and seems ok for now so we'll see. I've kept her in on soaked hay and she is having a lo calorie feedbalancer (no molasses, bought for my fat cob!) with her bute. I realise there's so much learning to do and it is quite overwhelming. Especially when my friend thinks I'm being cruel keeping her in.

The good point is though that our cobs seem to have finally worked out how to graze in their muzzles! I'm having to put headcollars over the top to keep them on and I do prefer the GG as the other looked so hot in the shires yesterday - it left sweat marks all round her nose. Another friend is coming this evening to help me portion off part of the field for them & I'm hoping the farmer will put his sheep back on the rest.

She really does seem almost back to normal already and already sick of being inside (very nippy!). Would you really keep her in another 30days? It seems a very long time (please don't bite my head off, I've never known a pony with active lami!). Could I not even turn her out for a few hours in a small area of the field with a muzzle on? Would that be ok?

 

[aradiagreen]

BTW I only have one stable or the field, no other option.