Pain or behavioural?

[I don’t like mondays]

I’m looking for advice as to what to do next with my daughters pony. I posted a while back about her hopping into trot (under saddle, in the field, on lunge). Vet visited did a trot up, flexions etc (no X-rays or scans) and couldn’t see anything obvious (saw the hop on the lunge). She was reactive to being palpapated at first but calmed down (she’s generally worried about vets). Vet said it could be her season, do strengthing alongside ridden and see if she’s still doing it. 3 weeks later pony has got worse (has good days and bad days). Daughter had lesson a week ago and the hopping got better during the lesson and the pony went well.

The next day on a walking hack the pony bucked out of the blue (could be nothing). The next day in the school (ridden) daughter focused on walk to trot and the hopping was the worst it’s been, coupled with humps from the back end (v tiny buck). Every time she was asked to go from walk to trot she’d either suck back and do a little hop up with the front end or if the walk was forwards would hump the back end- an unhappy pony. Wondering if it’s the saddle, been waiting for the saddle fitter, they are coming in 2 months.

I decided to lunge to asses from the ground. Walked the pony over poles in hand on the floor first, she was very calm. Lunging in walk was fine, asked for trot and she hopped up. I asked for a canter and she was very reluctant (trotting faster and faster) then exploded, looked like a combination of bunny hops and fly bucks.

I’m torn with what to do next. I’m thinking this looks like an SI issue? Or PSSM? But could also be behavioural. Do I get her in for a work up to rule everything out and if she’s ok get some help with her. The grass is spring like so could be that that caused the shapes on the lunge?. She used to be very mild mannered and quiet so this behaviour isn’t usually her. She’s also rising 7 so could be a teen and testing me. I’m going round in circles. Daughter is a teen if that helps. Thanks ETA I’ve got insurances. Also vet suggested to do a bute trial however I’m not sure this is worth doing and whether to do go straight to a work up plus diagnostics

 

[Wizpop]

I would most definitely be looking at pain related issues somewhere- probably hind end. She really is trying to tell you something is wrong! Horses do not just suddenly choose to behave differently. Maybe go to a lameness expert? Bute trials aren't always reliable.

 

[sbloom]

Pain and behaviour are so closely knitted they become the same, I'd say pain. I really don't think horses test people - it's pain or confusion, or I guess you could say it's stress/fear. I would have a vet work up but think very closely about movement patterns too - horses can be in massively dysfunctional patterns, sometimes through things that happen in their general management such as how their stable is set up, without it causing diagnosable pain, and vets don't often look at that. There is a handful of exceptional bodyworkers around who do look at movement in this way, there will be vets too, but they're rare.

Edited to add - by fear I mean literal fear of death. They are prey animals, they rely on having a functional body to be able to keep themselves alive, and we minimise this in our minds. We must take this into account with everything.

 

[Wizpop]

I would say that she is definitely trying to tell you something is wrong.
I would be getting a full lameness work up with nerve blocks. Bute trials don’t always show up a problem. A sudden change in a horses behaviour is a red flag and I wouldn’t be riding until you get a diagnosis of the problem. Good luck

 

[I don’t like mondays]

Thank you everyone, I’ll get her booked in for a work up. Good to know I’m not over reacting

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

If she's hopping in the field, it is hardly behavioural. I would find an osteo vet to do a work up. But I would have a good look at the saddle myself, turn it upside down feel all round, is the flocking lumpy/any sharp points, anything odd near the stirrup bars, etc, and not ride again until the problem is sorted.

 

[sbloom]

Definitely don't ride again. If the saddle is the original cause, which is unlikely, then it's the compensation patterns that have caused the issues as they're showing so clearly when not ridden.

 

[Fabel]

Really sounds an SI issue. My mare was going very similar to this when she was having problems.

 

[tda]

I would say the hopping into trot is a definite flag that something at the back end is not right.
Full lameness work up required I think, hope you find something that can be sorted x

 

[SEL]

That does sound SI related although problems elsewhere (hocks) can have a knock on effect on the SI. How is the pony moving in the field?

Hoof balance ok? If you think the grass isn't helping then a gut supplement while you wait for the work up won't hurt

 

[I don’t like mondays]

Really sounds an SI issue. My mare was going very similar to this when she was having problems.

I lost my last horse to SI issues (and other things) so I feel so paranoid but he hopped too :-(

 

[meleeka]

I lost my last horse to SI issues (and other things) so I feel so paranoid but he hopped too :-(

Mine started with SI issues and did this too. He ended up with KS and arthritis in his back and was pts this year.

 

[nutjob]

My horse who had an SI injury appeared superficially sound. He just wasn't pushing properly from behind and occasionally took a slightly shorter step with his RH. The physio said he didn't have a pain response but he was very tight and guarding along most of his back, which could appear like a saddle fitting issue as the weight of the saddle / rider would aggravate it. If I hadn't seen him have an accident it would have been much more difficult to find what was going on. I also had a horse with hind suspensory problems which presented in a similar way, probably because it was a bilateral problem which meant that I missed the first signs of lameness and it initially seemed to be a behavioural problem.

I doubt your horse is just playing up and the longer you leave it the more likely other issues will develop from being unable to move correctly. Good luck I hope you can find something which is easily treatable.

 

[Widgeon]

For what little it's worth my money would be on hocks or SI too. Don't despair yet though, if you can track down the root cause it may well be treatable. Best of luck with it.

 

[Hannahgb]

Mine hopped with navicular. I would be wanting a full work up, fingers crossed for you

 

[maya2008]

Pain, needing a detailed work-up.

 

[Sossigpoker]

My horse who had an SI injury appeared superficially sound. He just wasn't pushing properly from behind and occasionally took a slightly shorter step with his RH. The physio said he didn't have a pain response but he was very tight and guarding along most of his back, which could appear like a saddle fitting issue as the weight of the saddle / rider would aggravate it. If I hadn't seen him have an accident it would have been much more difficult to find what was going on. I also had a horse with hind suspensory problems which presented in a similar way, probably because it was a bilateral problem which meant that I missed the first signs of lameness and it initially seemed to be a behavioural problem.

I doubt your horse is just playing up and the longer you leave it the more likely other issues will develop from being unable to move correctly. Good luck I hope you can find something which is easily treatable.

How was this treated ? Did the horse get better?

 

[Birker2020]

I’m looking for advice as to what to do next with my daughters pony. I posted a while back about her hopping into trot (under saddle, in the field, on lunge). Vet visited did a trot up, flexions etc (no X-rays or scans) and couldn’t see anything obvious (saw the hop on the lunge). She was reactive to being palpapated at first but calmed down (she’s generally worried about vets). Vet said it could be her season, do strengthing alongside ridden and see if she’s still doing it. 3 weeks later pony has got worse (has good days and bad days). Daughter had lesson a week ago and the hopping got better during the lesson and the pony went well.

The next day on a walking hack the pony bucked out of the blue (could be nothing). The next day in the school (ridden) daughter focused on walk to trot and the hopping was the worst it’s been, coupled with humps from the back end (v tiny buck). Every time she was asked to go from walk to trot she’d either suck back and do a little hop up with the front end or if the walk was forwards would hump the back end- an unhappy pony. Wondering if it’s the saddle, been waiting for the saddle fitter, they are coming in 2 months.

I decided to lunge to asses from the ground. Walked the pony over poles in hand on the floor first, she was very calm. Lunging in walk was fine, asked for trot and she hopped up. I asked for a canter and she was very reluctant (trotting faster and faster) then exploded, looked like a combination of bunny hops and fly bucks.

I’m torn with what to do next. I’m thinking this looks like an SI issue? Or PSSM? But could also be behavioural. Do I get her in for a work up to rule everything out and if she’s ok get some help with her. The grass is spring like so could be that that caused the shapes on the lunge?. She used to be very mild mannered and quiet so this behaviour isn’t usually her. She’s also rising 7 so could be a teen and testing me. I’m going round in circles. Daughter is a teen if that helps. Thanks ETA I’ve got insurances. Also vet suggested to do a bute trial however I’m not sure this is worth doing and whether to do go straight to a work up plus diagnostics

I can almost certainly say from experience that its pain related. Just because she's not consistent in hee behaviour doesn't suggest behavioural to me.
Maybe another vet or even a ACPAT registered physio is your best bet for a correct diagnosis.

I don't think a bute trial always offers the best chance of diagnosing tbh.

Was she reactive over her S.I? Mine has a sore S.I and its very obvious when palpated. He can't maintain canter on the lunge, he's always been like this which is apparently another symptom of s.i issues

 

[nutjob]

How was this treated ? Did the horse get better?

I assume you mean the one with the SI injury, he has made a full recovery now. Resting him, physio and some gentle in hand work made no difference. The turning point was steroid injections, it was done under sedation with some sort of guidance system (fluoroscopy maybe) to ensure that the medication was properly administered into the joints. Then he was seen regularly by a physio, some massage, tens treatment and ultrasound I think. I did get a tens machine myself and put it on him 3/4 times a week and followed a program of more specific in hand exercises including poles, raised poles, backing up and turns. Before working him I used to put a set of heat pads on for 10min (actually 6 long socks filled with rice and microwaved). He had about 6 months in hand before I started riding him. The vet did say I could get back on earlier than this but he has quite a buck if he's in pain so I just took it very slowly. I don't do anything special with him now other than a slower warm up with lots of walking.

 

[Zoeypxo]

Most definitely a pain response. I think a full work up with nerve blocks/x rays seems like the way to go. Or if he does any clinics local to you Tom Beech - the osteopathic vet could help.

 

[I don’t like mondays]

Thanks for all the replies, will call the local hospital asap to get booked in. I kept thinking SI but second guessed myself. She’s young and green and has only started her work with us so this worries me. Not so bad that in an older horse who has had a full life first

 

[Fabel]

I lost my last horse to SI issues (and other things) so I feel so paranoid but he hopped too :-(

Sorry for your loss