Pammy Hutton and nosebands

E

eahotson

Well-Known Member
Joined
4 June 2003
Messages
4,849
Location
merseyside
Visit site
Just read Pammy Huttons comment in this weeks Horse and Hound.In one bit she comments on the tightness of nosebands and says that when it takes more than one person to do up the noseband or you need a ratchet (!!!) it becomes very cruel indeed and the FEI need to get this under control.
I must admit that it concerns me how tight people do up nosebands sometimes.I had to tape off part of my noseband when I discovered how tight the staff on my livery yard were doing up the noseband on my very quiet sensible little cob.I don't know if they thought about it or it was just habit.
On another level I thought that the official reason that you couldn't ride bitless in dressage comps was that the horse had to show acceptance of and submission to the bit.If the horse is then why those very tight nosebands?
 
A friend had a good idea once and said its a shame they don't have a rule that something like a 1 by 2cm diameter plastic cube or similar has to fit between the noseband and the front of the face as it would be easy for a steward to check every horse going into the warmup (if there is a steward) and if it looked tight the judges could easily check when the test is ridden at smaller ones. very simple and inexpensive. alternatively I would like to see a bonus of 3 marks for people not using a noseband but I think that would be going way too far for the authorities :D
 
I was taught that you should be able to get a finger flat between the noseband and the face on a cavesson. I never have and never would use a crank noseband. I don't see the point. Why a simple check can't be introduced for dressage to ensure that nosebands aren't tightened to the point of causing pain is beyond me - it wouldn't be that difficult surely!
 
horsemadmum1 said:
So few bridles available with simple cavesson :(
Click to expand...

This is so true. My sister has a crank on her noseband as every other one in the shop was a flash or grakle. Its never done up tight or cranked in the slightest, but it is more faffy! I go for the nosebandless option, less to clean, less to buckle so quicker all round!
 
Surely the way dressage is judged encourages the use of these horrid things- marks are lost for the mouth being open, but there is nothing to say the mouth can't be forced shut
 
There ARE noseband checks - the same way as there are bit checks. Also - if you read the BD rulebook, it clearly states that nosebands should not be fitted so that they are uncomfortable for the horse.

I appreciate that it goes on, but it is the fault of the individual rider, not BD/FEI. Lets address the issue closer to home, rather than making it an opportunity to bitch about dressage/BD!
 
Bede said:
Surely the way dressage is judged encourages the use of these horrid things- marks are lost for the mouth being open, but there is nothing to say the mouth can't be forced shut
Click to expand...

I have found exactly this with one of my horses who opens and closes his mouth a lot although he is not evading the contact. Some judges mark him down heavily whilst others don't. I could solve this problem by tightening up his crank noseband but I choose not to.

I actually like crank nosebands because of the padding under the jaw but I do them up the same as I would a 'normal' cavesson ie. one finger between the front of the noseband and the horse's face.
 
I've been told quite a few times, by quite a few instructors/experiences horse men/women that I need to either do my horses' noseband up VERY tight, get a tight flash on or any other means to get him to close his mouth- I always grit my teeth and agree with them at the time, but still carry on riding without any nose band atall.

I think riding, competing and lessons should be enjoyable for both rider AND horse, and if that means that downward transitions are a little messy because he has his mouth wide open and "runs" out of canter then so be it (for now). I have tried these tight nose bands and flashes and yes- his transitions were lovely because of it, but I felt so bad.

I definitely think there should be checks made before entering the ring- it is an unfair advantage, both unfair on the other competitors that haven't strapped the mouth shut, and unfair on the horse for having to endure it.
 
Agree we shouldn't target dressage, I'm sure you could find the same in other disciplines but I hate when you see horses that have developed a mark where nosebands have been done up tight over a period of time.

When I was a kid in pony club (long time ago) I was actually taught two fingers for a cavesson and one for a drop.
 
Last edited:
criso said:
Agree we shouldn't target dressage, I'm sure you could find the same in other disciplines but I hate when you see horses that have developed a mark where nosebands have been done up tight over a period of time.

When I was a kid in pony club (long time ago) I was actually taught two fingers for a cavesson and one for a drop.
Click to expand...
I think Pammy Hutton talks about dressage because that is what she knows best.When it was suggested before that there needs to be checks on the tightness of nosebands Carl Hester said that the riders should be left alone to decide for themselves.
 
I was recently writing for a BD judge at an affiliated competition, we had one horse that had a drop nose band that was both far too tight and far too low. At the end of the test the judge called the rider over to comment on said nose band, she simply mentioned that it would not pass a stewards inspection (such as you find at the regionals) and that she should look at adjusting it in future. Instead of thanking the judge for pointing it out, the rider simply said- my trainer 'such and such' says it's fine and he competes in the regionals regularly and walked off!
 
eahotson said:
I think Pammy Hutton talks about dressage because that is what she knows best.When it was suggested before that there needs to be checks on the tightness of nosebands Carl Hester said that the riders should be left alone to decide for themselves.
Click to expand...

I was just echoing Auslander's comment that we shouldn't turn the thread into a dressage bashing thread.

There are checks on bits so don't in theory see the objection to check nosebands.
 
Elvis said:
I was recently writing for a BD judge at an affiliated competition, we had one horse that had a drop nose band that was both far too tight and far too low. At the end of the test the judge called the rider over to comment on said nose band, she simply mentioned that it would not pass a stewards inspection (such as you find at the regionals) and that she should look at adjusting it in future. Instead of thanking the judge for pointing it out, the rider simply said- my trainer 'such and such' says it's fine and he competes in the regionals regularly and walked off!
Click to expand...

...Well what a lovely person they must be then eh Elvis?! ....NOT
 
I don't even undo the noseband when tacking and untacking, just slides on and off. I did try a flash on her one time as she opens and closes her mouth a lot and sticks her tongue out of the side, but that just frustrated her more so its never been back on since. Plus an instructor agreed that she is just very active in her mouth and it wasn't an evasion technique. The silly sod even walks around the field with her tongue hanging out.
 
I saw this too!! I can't believe theres still discrepancy and disagreement in international regulation for noseband tightness..unbelievable! Interestingly enough i'm currently collecting research about nosebands for my dissertation. For the proposal i had to do a lot of reading around and these noseband tapers EXIST !!! they ensure that the noseband is regulation (i.e. width of 2 fingers) yet it is nowhere in professional practice. Such a shame.

I genuinely think this is such an important area to be researched because it is SO interconnected with welfare!! And so many people genuinely care about their horses welfare but simply don't know enough about the truth and reality of different types of tack. Plus so much of it is down to tradition that no one even questions it!

I really think furthering this area of research could be pivotal in pushing stronger regulations and if anyone could help that would be amazing!

If anyone has a spare second it would be a great help to fill out the survey!

https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/WFWXYPG

Thanks in advance to everyone :)
 
Filled out the survey, but it doesn't seem to differentiate between different nosebands - for example, I fit my drop tighter than I fit my Cavesson...

I tend to alternate between nosebands - nothing or loose cavesson if he's good, drop for a while if he's been a bit strong e.g. on a hack, or been evasive schooling if it's something harder work. My cob reacts much better to a noseband change than bit change - but never overtightened.
 
When I first started riding my horse I did so with no noseband. The owners of her quickly noticed this and said I was mad and should at least have a cavesson on. To me, the horse has no need for a noseband! I do have a cavesson on her now, just to keep the owners happy, but it's so loose it may as well not be there!
 
Thanks so much! I know, I realised that like a month ago, but I don't want to change the survey because then half the people who have already answered won't have filled it properly... I think I might make a second survey to differentiate... I think it didn't cross my mind because I've personally never used anything but a normal cavesson, in fact i only heard about drop nosebands like 5 years ago!

Thank you so much :)
 
Thats the dream!!! It took me a while to figure out how to really be able to engage with my horse without needing to crank the noseband...every horse is different and some need more patience than others but i believe that it should be loose no matter what!!
 
I ride with a loose cavesson (I can fit 2 fingers under it) - I have ridden without and he was an absolute riot, really unsettled in his mouth and not picking up a contact at all. It seems that although it isn't actually tight enough to be effective, just having it there does affect behaviour - for Jazz, anyway.
 
Some horses are just so accustomed to having been broken in with loads of contact that they get quite nervy without any pressure at all! totally agree. Just depends horse to horse..
 
Bede said:
Surely the way dressage is judged encourages the use of these horrid things- marks are lost for the mouth being open, but there is nothing to say the mouth can't be forced shut
Click to expand...

This very sad but true .
One of mine fiddles with his lips but not the contact it's a habit if you clamp the mouth shut I he looks still he goes better with a loose cavesson but would loose marks .
I think the best judges only mark down moving the mouth when they can see it affecting the way of going and that is fair enough.
 
My pony came back off loan with a ridge in his facial hair where a noseband would be. He came back over 4 weeks ago and its STILL there. I admit I didn't think much of it at first but someone else has said about how tight his noseband must have been to cause that mark :(.
But then also turns out pony WAS being regularly ridden in side reins to help with control as well. Left me with a highly strung pony, which is NOT what went away.....
 
I have a noseband on Jake purely for aesthetic reasons, would I want my mouth strapped shut when I went for a jog? Nope. So I wouldn't do it to him.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top