Pammy Hutton vs The Dressage Hub (Facebook)

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SkylarkAscending

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eahotson said:
I don't understand what Pammy is doing.I don't fully support her either but she has enough on her plate with her daughters illness and frankly she is just giving this woman the oxygen of publicity.
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I’ve just gone and looked at Pammy’s page now and I totally agree. Good grief I know it’s difficult not to react to allegations, and I also know Pammy’s reputation as being determined, but even I wouldn’t be bothering taking that one on - who cares what Dressage Hub thinks or says? She (DH) is known for being vile….
 
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Jenko109 said:
I'm aware of how to use Google. I have no interest in who Pammy is, so I don't feel the need to Google her.

No need to be so patronising.
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Well I’m SO sorry you found my response patronising, if I don’t know about something I tend to find out just for my own curiosity before I comment - clearly that’s just me 😊

Have a fabulous evening 😊
 
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I do think that the dressage hub woman is bonkers and is making money hauling people over the coals. However, the post she has put up RE Talland isn’t without its truths. I’ve met two people there who have gone on to greater things but struggled with the instructor training at Talland that caused her to have an eating disorder. The second who is a very good friend of mine won a rider talent contest to train under the Talland Team and she spent as much time as she could in her horsebox away from them all and couldn’t wait to get home.
This is, only 2 people out of probable thousands that have trained over the years and been fine.

Is Pammy part of a dying breed of British Horsemanship of yesteryear? Undoubtedly yes. It’s mixed as to whether this is a good thing or not.
 
ester

ester

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ihatework said:
Let’s face it, Pammy isn’t the full picnic either. She’s daft going down the route she is.
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This, she should have taken some advice from other people before heading down the dressage hub rabbit hole. . and reversed out of it as quickly as she could once she was there.

I particularly enjoyed the comment that suggested she should contact her MP as they might help. . . .
 
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Jenko109 said:
I'm aware of how to use Google. I have no interest in who Pammy is, so I don't feel the need to Google her.

No need to be so patronising.
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Pammy is very well known dressage rider and runs the Talland Equestrian Centre, which she took over from her mother, who was a stalwart of the British Dressage scene and well known, trainer, author.

I recall going to a demonstration done by Pammy a good few years ago, where she said everyone should have the ambition to teach their horse to piaffe, which was rather uplifting.
 
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One of the main issues I have with the current iteration of dressage hub is the belief by her followers (and her) that she has always been about the welfare of the horse....

She only set up to ridicule Canadian riders she had taken issue to. She loved Anky and Gal and all of that ilk. I remember pointing out once that Gal used rolkur and got absolutely slated by her and her minions and now she's all over the place acting as if she never liked those riders.

She is also advertising her social media management company and claims she has worked on viral campaigns for Trump and Prince Harry...make of that what you will.

All of this is about the money and she makes random claims and then claims everyone is bullying her and mean to her.
 
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scats said:
It’s like watching a car crash. I’m not aware of the post that Pammy put up that allegedly started the feud, but god it’s embarrassing watching it unfold.

Who actually is the dressage hub woman?
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I believe she is Canadian and lives in USA but dont take that as gospel. It appears that she doesn't have much in the way of horse/competition experience but is just a huge vile mouth piece.
 
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Ceifer said:
I do think that the dressage hub woman is bonkers and is making money hauling people over the coals. However, the post she has put up RE Talland isn’t without its truths. I’ve met two people there who have gone on to greater things but struggled with the instructor training at Talland that caused her to have an eating disorder. The second who is a very good friend of mine won a rider talent contest to train under the Talland Team and she spent as much time as she could in her horsebox away from them all and couldn’t wait to get home.
This is, only 2 people out of probable thousands that have trained over the years and been fine.

Is Pammy part of a dying breed of British Horsemanship of yesteryear? Undoubtedly yes. It’s mixed as to whether this is a good thing or not.
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A few years ago I knew a young woman who had been a working pupil at Talland.She didn't particularly dislike her time there but did feel that unless you had a super talented horse they weren't interested in you.
 
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I think that they are both reflecting poorly on the equestrian community, although honestly I don't identify with mainstream equestrianism anymore. I didn't even know who either of them were until recently because dressage isn't my world, but FB algorithms have shown me some things.

The group that PH admins has gone completely down the toilet since the CDJ video was leaked, which you would think would be a watershed moment for a group which is meant to be about improving welfare in competitive horse sports, but it would seem that as soon as the abusing was being done by a member of team GB, the narrative changed to 'no negative comments' and 'let's spread positivity' (i.e. toxic positivity, stick your head in the sand and pretend the abuse isn't happening every single day to British competition horses on our own soil).

I still think that PH should have used her platform and influence on national television to state that dressage needs a huge overhaul and that modern day dressage is systemically abusive and harmful to horses, but instead she just talked about how humans need riding, how it's great for people's mental health - a very human-centred view on why horses should be ridden. She seems to be revered on that group by others who, on balance, seem to care more about riding and their right to ride than about the welfare of horses. (And it seems relevant to say that the worst abuse I've ever personally witnessed was at a RDA school, because people like to go on about how wonderful institutions they are).

The fear-mongering of 'let the cull begin' was a nonsense - even if horse sports became a thing of the past, many people would still leisure ride and have horses as non-ridden pets. It's often the competitive element which leads people to treat horses like machines and sports equipment, rather than living beings with feelings. The group is soon to be made private, which I think is a good thing, because they can then keep their toxic positivity within a closed echo chamber.

As for The Dressage Hub person - she comes across constantly as angry and a bit crazy!
 
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Miss_Millie said:
I think that they are both reflecting poorly on the equestrian community, although honestly I don't identify with mainstream equestrianism anymore. I didn't even know who either of them were until recently because dressage isn't my world, but FB algorithms have shown me some things.

The group that PH admins has gone completely down the toilet since the CDJ video was leaked, which you would think would be a watershed moment for a group which is meant to be about improving welfare in competitive horse sports, but it would seem that as soon as the abusing was being done by a member of team GB, the narrative changed to 'no negative comments' and 'let's spread positivity' (i.e. toxic positivity, stick your head in the sand and pretend the abuse isn't happening every single day to British competition horses on our own soil).

I still think that PH should have used her platform and influence on national television to state that dressage needs a huge overhaul and that modern day dressage is systemically abusive and harmful to horses, but instead she just talked about how humans need riding, how it's great for people's mental health - a very human-centred view on why horses should be ridden. She seems to be revered on that group by others who, on balance, seem to care more about riding and their right to ride than about the welfare of horses. (And it seems relevant to say that the worst abuse I've ever personally witnessed was at a RDA school, because people like to go on about how wonderful institutions they are).

The fear-mongering of 'let the cull begin' was a nonsense - even if horse sports became a thing of the past, many people would still leisure ride and have horses as non-ridden pets. It's often the competitive element which leads people to treat horses like machines and sports equipment, rather than living beings with feelings. The group is soon to be made private, which I think is a good thing, because they can then keep their toxic positivity within a closed echo chamber.

As for The Dressage Hub person - she comes across constantly as angry and a bit crazy!
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I agree with a lot of that.I would like horse sports to continue but only if substantial change occurs
 
ester

ester

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Miss_Millie said:
I think that they are both reflecting poorly on the equestrian community, although honestly I don't identify with mainstream equestrianism anymore. I didn't even know who either of them were until recently because dressage isn't my world, but FB algorithms have shown me some things.

The group that PH admins has gone completely down the toilet since the CDJ video was leaked, which you would think would be a watershed moment for a group which is meant to be about improving welfare in competitive horse sports, but it would seem that as soon as the abusing was being done by a member of team GB, the narrative changed to 'no negative comments' and 'let's spread positivity' (i.e. toxic positivity, stick your head in the sand and pretend the abuse isn't happening every single day to British competition horses on our own soil).

I still think that PH should have used her platform and influence on national television to state that dressage needs a huge overhaul and that modern day dressage is systemically abusive and harmful to horses, but instead she just talked about how humans need riding, how it's great for people's mental health - a very human-centred view on why horses should be ridden. She seems to be revered on that group by others who, on balance, seem to care more about riding and their right to ride than about the welfare of horses. (And it seems relevant to say that the worst abuse I've ever personally witnessed was at a RDA school, because people like to go on about how wonderful institutions they are).

The fear-mongering of 'let the cull begin' was a nonsense - even if horse sports became a thing of the past, many people would still leisure ride and have horses as non-ridden pets. It's often the competitive element which leads people to treat horses like machines and sports equipment, rather than living beings with feelings. The group is soon to be made private, which I think is a good thing, because they can then keep their toxic positivity within a closed echo chamber.

As for The Dressage Hub person - she comes across constantly as angry and a bit crazy!
Click to expand...
and the 'we should leave it to/trust the responsible authorities' which ermm seemed to directly contravene the groups original purpose given that the authorities hadn't really been doing a great job 🤷‍♀️
 
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ester said:
and the 'we should leave it to/trust the responsible authorities' which ermm seemed to directly contravene the groups original purpose given that the authorities hadn't really been doing a great job 🤷‍♀️
Click to expand...

I think the crux of it is that as a group admined by British riders, they were more than happy to criticise abusive international riders as if abusive practices were exclusive to anywhere outside of the UK, but did a 180 when the CDJ video came out.

I generally find toxic positivity quite sickening - it is a way to gaslight empathetic and aware people into believing that their concerns are 'negative'; that they are a bad thing. It's ironic because ultimately having a zero tolerance policy towards abuse would lead to a new generation of riders who put the horse first, and maybe then there would be a way forward for horse sports, although they would look very different (happy and healthy athletes having their needs met). They're shooting themselves in the foot with this 'positivity' campaign.
 
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Miss_Millie said:
I think that they are both reflecting poorly on the equestrian community, although honestly I don't identify with mainstream equestrianism anymore. I didn't even know who either of them were until recently because dressage isn't my world, but FB algorithms have shown me some things.

The group that PH admins has gone completely down the toilet since the CDJ video was leaked, which you would think would be a watershed moment for a group which is meant to be about improving welfare in competitive horse sports, but it would seem that as soon as the abusing was being done by a member of team GB, the narrative changed to 'no negative comments' and 'let's spread positivity' (i.e. toxic positivity, stick your head in the sand and pretend the abuse isn't happening every single day to British competition horses on our own soil).

I still think that PH should have used her platform and influence on national television to state that dressage needs a huge overhaul and that modern day dressage is systemically abusive and harmful to horses, but instead she just talked about how humans need riding, how it's great for people's mental health - a very human-centred view on why horses should be ridden. She seems to be revered on that group by others who, on balance, seem to care more about riding and their right to ride than about the welfare of horses. (And it seems relevant to say that the worst abuse I've ever personally witnessed was at a RDA school, because people like to go on about how wonderful institutions they are).

The fear-mongering of 'let the cull begin' was a nonsense - even if horse sports became a thing of the past, many people would still leisure ride and have horses as non-ridden pets. It's often the competitive element which leads people to treat horses like machines and sports equipment, rather than living beings with feelings. The group is soon to be made private, which I think is a good thing, because they can then keep their toxic positivity within a closed echo chamber.

As for The Dressage Hub person - she comes across constantly as angry and a bit crazy!
Click to expand...

Oh we can dream re using the opportunity for change for the better across the board. The equestrian industry is one of the worst for 'why should we change, everything's 100% totally fine, we know best' (in my experience) while the world moves on for the better, whether that's education, customer experience, employment law, general every horsemanship or horse welfare. Most likely because change would mean admitting what they were doing was wrong/not good enough/no longer acceptable in the modern world.

I'd LOVE to see the BHS come out with something along the lines of we're reviewing all riding school approval policies to ensure horses are the forefront of what we do, because let's face it there are many around that do cause as much negative PR damage to the industry as a pro does beating a horse, or RDA to crack down on some of the appalling things that happen at the local group level. Trouble is it won't happen as there's too much sway by a certain group of names 😒


ETS: think how good it would look if BE, BS and BD put out a joint statement about horse welfare, zero tolerance approach, but I feel pigs may fly first.
 
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Miss_Millie

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teapot said:
Oh we can dream re using the opportunity for change for the better across the board. The equestrian industry is one of the worst for 'why should we change, everything's 100% totally fine, we know best' (in my experience) while the world moves on for the better, whether that's education, customer experience, employment law, general every horsemanship or horse welfare. Most likely because change would mean admitting what they were doing was wrong/not good enough/no longer acceptable in the modern world.

I'd LOVE to see the BHS come out with something along the lines of we're reviewing all riding school approval policies to ensure horses are the forefront of what we do, because let's face it there are many around that do cause as much negative PR damage to the industry as a pro does beating a horse, or RDA to crack down on some of the appalling things that happen at the local group level. Trouble is it won't happen as there's too much sway by a certain group of names 😒


ETS: think how good it would look if BE, BS and BD put out a joint statement about horse welfare, zero tolerance approach, but I feel pigs may fly first.
Click to expand...

I think/hope that the biggest catalyst for change will be the recording equipment every person has on them at all times - their phone. Maybe with enough videos surfacing of abuse from pro riders, the wider equestrian community will finally have to admit that we've failed horses miserably, from top to bottom. I think that the horse world may be on the precipice of colossal change for the better, and the pushback from those who care about riding above all comes from the fear of their house of cards finally collapsing.
 
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