Panicking pony

Dry Rot

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I bought a 4yo Highland gelding back in June that is inclined to have what I can only describe as panic attacks. He is a total contrast to our home breds!

He was purchased from the breeder off the hill at 2 from a large herd, then sold on at 4 due to the owner's personal circumstances. After a couple of months, he was sold on again to me being described as one that could be broken in a week. That owner is apparently also very experienced. Three months on and he is still subject to panic attacks, but we are making progress even though it is very very slow!

The first owner obviously did a good job and the pony can be groomed, feet lifted, walked over plastic, plywood, and onto a pallet, etc. BUT he is inclined to panic at specific things.

We started him using conventional training as he was descibed as having been long reined. He lunged OK but would occassionally spook. Long reining was not a great success and involves a series of mini bucks, though we were definitely making progress. He went well the last time, just long reins, head collar, and roller. He is quite good on voice commands. I can free lunge him with the voice and body language, ntil the next panic atack! Having said that, he is a gentleman. He doesn't bite, rear, or kick. Put back in a mixed herd of half a dozen mares and geldings, he appeared to be way down on the bottom of the peck order. A visiting professional described him as looking as if he was expecting something bad to happen all the time.

As I've said, he is prone to panic attacks. He suddenly took a dislike to the saddle and would not have it near him. Then the lunge line. Then the mounting block. We've overcome each of these in turn using slow and soft techniques. Next, he spooked at the roller, wanting to run off when it is tightened (even though very softly and slowly). We've left it on in the hope that he'll get used to it but he is extremely spooky about it being handled. I've now discovered he is very stick shy. Leaning a stick 18 inches from his feed bowl is OK, but move it six inches and he is off like a shot! (yeah, I thought that too... :().

Having successfully trained hawks and dogs to a very high standard for over 40 years (not bragging, just explaining), I have infinite patience and time is not a factor. I am also very 'softly-softly' in my approach which does not mean I'm a push over either! So I've gone right back to basics and spend a lot of time with him just talking, stroking, and tidbitting.

My questin is this: Will he ever come right? Is there anything I can do to hasten the process? Is it too late to return him to the seller? Though I'm not likely to do the last as he is basicaly a nice honest chap, but I do believe he was missold and I have evidence in writing. Something has happened for sure and it would help if I knew what, but I suspect I am just going to have to work blind on this unless the wisdom of HHO can come to my rescue! Any ideas?
 

Doormouse

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Time, time and more time I would think.

I have had several of these, some unbroken and some older horses all whom needed to learn to trust the human race and there were no light bulb solutions, it just took, time and patience and repetition again and again and again. Very often once you have established the basics as far as possible a holiday for them pays dividends as they assimilate what they have learned and come back mentally stronger for some reason.

As little pressure as possible is important too, for some reason the ones who have lost their faith in humans find any pressure very hard to cope with initially so everything has to be within their comfort zone, ie no sudden new ideas without lots of preparation first.

I often find once they trust you they will lay down their life for you and are the most rewarding of all but you will need a lot of patience!
 

PollyP99

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Poor soul sounds like he's been beaten at some stage. I don't really have any advice having never had to anything this bad myself. My mare is known to panic, think more if she believes she is caught in something she starts to try to get away, rug in haynet once was a classic, martingale slipped up her neck, these days she panics and looks at me to help not try to take off ,a good step forward. For her it was trust.

I'm not sure on your stance on calmers, this guy sounds like he's in a permenant state of fear and personally I would want to lessen that if I could. Something herbal to ease the nerves? Herbal calm I've used on my mare for seasonal issues and it does have an effect.
 

_HP_

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I'd start with a health check....pain of some sort would be my first port of call..?ulcers/back pain/feet?
Magnesium deficiency can also make them jumpy

I just got a little spotty pony who I've known since his birth. He was a sweet as pie but just before I got him had been run through the sales and is now a jumpy fearful little thing.
Time and patience is the key I guess
 
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Patchworkpony

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We bought a Dartmoor hill pony years ago as a yearling, to keep our fell company. He was the biggest coward on legs and had always been the bottom of the pecking order from the place he came from and to be honest we never did much with him as I felt he wouldn't be safe to drive etc. as he panicked at everything and certainly wouldn't long rein, as walking ahead of us solo was too much for him to cope with. This said he was the kindest sweetest pony ever. Fast forward 7 years to when we lost his friend. He was so upset and lost that as we were moving house we put him in a lovely livery yard/riding school for him to have some company while we were house hunting. While he was there we opted to have him broken in just to give him something to do. After a confused but very gentle and slow start with him really not 'getting it' without panicking big time at first he suddenly came good and started to relax. He became so happy and confident that we gifted him to what is a wonderful home where he has loads of friends and plenty to occupy his mind. If someone had told me all those years ago that our timid, spooky little pony would have become yard favourite, especially for nervous beginners, or that he would be the leading light at all the children's pony parties I wouldn't have believed them. Just give your boy lots of time, love and constructive attention and he may well surprise you. Sometimes the timid ones can end up being the most loyal and loving as I was told by a very experienced horsewoman years ago.
 

milliepops

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Time, time and more time I would think.

I have had several of these, some unbroken and some older horses all whom needed to learn to trust the human race and there were no light bulb solutions, it just took, time and patience and repetition again and again and again. Very often once you have established the basics as far as possible a holiday for them pays dividends as they assimilate what they have learned and come back mentally stronger for some reason.

As little pressure as possible is important too, for some reason the ones who have lost their faith in humans find any pressure very hard to cope with initially so everything has to be within their comfort zone, ie no sudden new ideas without lots of preparation first.

I often find once they trust you they will lay down their life for you and are the most rewarding of all but you will need a lot of patience!

Agree with this ^
I have one who was like this for about 6 months. I've got lots of experience with different horses but I nearly gave up on this one. I had to learn a whole new level of patience. No pressure. Keeping the focus without adding pressure is a difficult balance.

Have you tried having input from another person? When I was desperate I contacted a local lady who is very much keen on very quiet calm horse -friendly training. Her own brand of NH i suppose. She really helped me and it was a relief to be able to share the problem with someone else.

It took a good few months but the horse is basically 'fixed' now, looks to handler for support when needed rather than panicking and I can now add a little pressure when necessary (at a show etc) without the flight instinct taking over. I'd keep going if you rate the pony :)
 

wowser

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Have you got a stable. If so put him in for about a month. He will come round to you bringing food and water dont worry about touching him be happy talk to him..after a few days touch & retreat..but he needs to be in stable..good luck deep litter it will be eaiser
 

Dry Rot

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Well, I didn't expect to be reporting good news so soon! Even so, it is good to have confirmation that we've been doing the right thing. I have a 16yo girl who helps out and keeps a horse here and she has not been much involved with this guy except to go in with him and talk to him. I asked her help in taking off the roller today and I expected a dramatic scene. She can handle him no bother and, from what you kind people have been saying, he trusts her because she has done nothing with him except kisses and cuddles (and I do mean that literally! :)). He is also beginning to trust me.

The blanks in his past are now beginning to fill in. If it took us this long, he could not have done a lot with the previous owner.

I had a weanling a couple of years ago that bolted and struck a strainer post. For some time, he blamed me for the accident and I could do nothing with him. The girl just turned up with the same colt at the back door, all tacked up which he took too very easily. That pony is a lovely fellow and very trusting as you've said they can be once they know we are not bad people.

Thanks everyone, I just needed some reassurance. We definitely made a mistake forging ahead with his training without establishing that trust first. But I'm here to learn and I won't make that mistake again. Yes, we have him by himself, though he can talk to a couple of colts over the fence. I think it will be OK now, especially as I now know what to do. Thanks again.
 

paddy555

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he trusts her because she has done nothing with him except kisses and cuddles (and I do mean that literally! :)). He is also beginning to trust me.

.

I have been working with one like this and although it took me a while to work out how to do it it was easy when I got it. Absolutely no LR and no lunging. Nothing where the horse is away from you. If he is scared with you he will be even more terrified away from you. I did it by doing things like leading in hand. We had a zero tolerance on panic. He wasn't allowed to. My aim was to build his self confidence. I stopped every couple of steps to start with and rewarded him. Lots and lots of cuddles as we walked out. Any panic situation for eg a tractor we stopped, ate nuts and he had to relax to eat. Anytime he looked away or paniced I brought his head round to me and rewarded him. I walked with my inside hand on his withers so that I was constantly stroking him and he knew he had a confident person and he didn't have to think on his own.
Once he got that then we walked with a loose rope him one stride out to the side, then I introduced lunging on our walks, just a tiny circle around me on the road. Then when we got to an area of grass we moved onto a slightly larger circle lunging. Etc Etc. Then I taught him to panic. He could spook one stride only then I was on the case. Then I taught him to spook for 2 strides but he knew I was there in case it got any worse.

took a while to start with but once he got it we made progress and he is so rewarding. You end up with a horse who is so bonded with you.

Is part of your problem that you are a man? I have had several horses that I have had no problems handling but OH (male) has struggled with for a long time. Knowing their history they had been badly treated by men and it took him a lot longer to build a relationship. Sadly if horses are badly treated it often appears to have been by men.
 

TwinkleT

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So pleased to hear you are making progress. Completely agree with your comment above about establishing trust first. I can see now I made exactly the same mistake with my exmoor that I posted a thread about a couple of weeks ago.
2 weeks of just getting him in everyday for a feed and groom and we are making fast progress. He trotted in hand today which was a major source of panic before. His instinct is still to run when he gets worried but he's managing to contain it now and the worst i've had is a few steps backwards.
Hopefully we will get there in the end! If nothing else I have learnt an awful lot from this little pony!
 

Dry Rot

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What I have found curious (to me) is how bold he can be about some things and how spooky about other seemingly trivial things. The real "I don't care about double decker buses" but "Oh, that leaf is going to eat me!" Yes, definitely more fearful of men than females.

We have a field shelter with a gate directly into the round pen which is ideal for training. I have been giving a slice of carrot every time I've passed him and in the last few days have insisted that he takes at least one step towards me to get his reward. That has resulted in his resistance to approaching me slowly being eroded. This is basic hawk training. A small morsel every time I pass a bird in training and they soon look forward to your approach. A lot easier with a native pony, of course, as they are all greedy! Yes, I suspect we have turned the corner and will make progress now.
 

Echo Bravo

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tacken me nearly 4 years to get my youngster to tie up groom and let me pick his feet out, but getting there, slowly slowly catchy monkey is something I keep repeating to myself, but chuffed to pieces should be able to back and ride him with my calculations by the time he's 12 and at 66 I've all the time in the world :) And I've had him as a 4 month foal but I agree on the eye sight, just can't get a vet near him anymore since having him micochipped and gelded which was a big issue as he had a retained testicle and getting to and from the vets never won't to go through that again.
 

Ladyinred

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Well, I didn't expect to be reporting good news so soon! Even so, it is good to have confirmation that we've been doing the right thing. I have a 16yo girl who helps out and keeps a horse here and she has not been much involved with this guy except to go in with him and talk to him. I asked her help in taking off the roller today and I expected a dramatic scene. She can handle him no bother and, from what you kind people have been saying, he trusts her because she has done nothing with him except kisses and cuddles (and I do mean that literally! :)). He is also beginning to trust me.

The blanks in his past are now beginning to fill in. If it took us this long, he could not have done a lot with the previous owner.

I had a weanling a couple of years ago that bolted and struck a strainer post. For some time, he blamed me for the accident and I could do nothing with him. The girl just turned up with the same colt at the back door, all tacked up which he took too very easily. That pony is a lovely fellow and very trusting as you've said they can be once they know we are not bad people.

Thanks everyone, I just needed some reassurance. We definitely made a mistake forging ahead with his training without establishing that trust first. But I'm here to learn and I won't make that mistake again. Yes, we have him by himself, though he can talk to a couple of colts over the fence. I think it will be OK now, especially as I now know what to do. Thanks again.

Thats really good to read. I hope things continue to improve.
 

Dry Rot

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I have often found with other species that it can all fall into place quite quickly when the right buttons are pressed. Sometimes in just a few moments. I call it "realisation". My knowledge comes from training working dogs (lots!) and I love that moment when they look at you and say, "Oh, but why didn't you TELL me! It's so easy now I know what you want!". I speak dog fluently, but so far only have pidgen horse!

Thanks for bringing me that magic moment of realisation! What a wonderful resource HHO is (despite the obsolete software:)).
 
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