Parelli techniques - this Forum can DO something

Box_Of_Frogs

Box_Of_Frogs

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I've been following the recent posts regarding highly dubious Parelli training techniques: 5yr olds at Pony Club know more about training and handling a horse than is demonstrated on some of Linda Parelli's videos. Every time a new affront is posted, it gets hundreds, if not thousands, of replies. Anyone up to joining forces and writing to the Parellis from Forum Members to ask for a formal response to the observed so-called training? We would need a "sticky" from Admin then a 1st draft of a letter - crisp and evidenced, not just a rant - that we can all tinker with until we feel it's right and send it to them. H&H might like to feature our efforts and the response in the Magazine.

I'm happy to have a 1st stab to get a structure, then we would need input from eg trainers, instructors, equine behaviourists, vets, natural horsemanship people, ordinary owners etc etc. Come on peeps - let's run with this and DO something that might, just might, make a difference for horses.

ETA - have advised the FatController to ask for a sticky IF this plan takes off.
 
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I don't think your really get any were with it, even though we all can see how crap Linda Parelli's and PP really are, if they think thats training then they need to get to specksavers fast!
 
...yes but at least we'll have done SOMETHING rather than just rant to each other! It's the equivalent of a livery yard where liveries moan and groan to each other but no-one has the guts to go and talk to the YO. I don't do sitting around moaning - I do standing up and being counted. If the only result we get is that the Parellis are more careful about their training videos, at least it's a start. That's how big changes happen, in small, baby steps.
 
Definitely have my support on this, if we all get together then just maybe we'll at least get some media attention and you never know something may actually happen,
Annie XX
 
While I see where you are coming from, unfortunately I do not think it would make any difference to the company you/we take issue with. The only interest they appear to have is making money, not horse welfare or training. There will always be the gulible people who believe that these techniques are correct and that the detractors 'don't understand'. One poster on the LP thread appeared to believe that this was the only way to stop a horse from being bad to lead. When people are so ignorant no campaign will make enough difference to the full blown marketting machine that is the Parelli brand.
 
You might not change the Parelli's themselves but go look see how many HHO members there are. A reasoned and structured complaint instead of the usual rant might make people see for themselves what happens. Even if we could not break through to the existing members we might at least have an effect on potential members in the UK.

By its very design, the 'machine' appeals to those who are less than able with their horses; new owners, overhorsed people etc. Those are the ones we need to convince that Parelli is wrong on so many counts.

We owe it to horses to try. We might fail, but at least we would have tried.
 
If we cannot stop them, we can still raise awareness in others, which then may mean they don't buy as many of said parelli products. They will be asked to do less demonstrations if places know how unpopular they have become, and thus their business will struggle - if done correctly of course!
I'm totally with you all the way!!
 
BoF that might just help! Another supporter here. I am not very good at these thing but happy to back those who are.
 
Count me in.
I'm not very good at writing as most people know already but if you want to use Herbs as a case for Parelli going Horrably wrong and showing just how much damage the technics can do then I'm happy to tell you again all the battles I've been through to get him to be a reletively safe pony. A well constructed letter, done with a clear head, may just help them sit up and think. Especialy if it can provide evidance against the way they do things, such as like BOF said
trainers, instructors, equine behaviourists, vets, natural horsemanship people
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and case studys like Herbs, even people and I know there are a few out there (even some on here) who started out likeing Parelli but now hate what it has become, a money making buisness and horse welfair seems to have nothing to do with it.
If they give there usual response it could just be more fule for the fire against them and hopefuly as LizzyandToddy
They will be asked to do less demonstrations if places know how unpopular they have become, and thus their business will struggle.
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SusannaF said:
I think the problem is that it will make it look as though Horse and Hound endorses all criticism of the Parellis. Better to set up your own blog/site to do it.
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At first I really disagreed with this statement but I have had a think.

There are lots of forums, most of us belong to at least a couple. How about someone sets up a forum to specifically make a plan of action. No ranting, but the collation of information and help composing letters? This could stay here as a sticky to direct people and a similar thread could be stickied on other forums.

Not a FB account, there are too many people dislike FB (me included!) but maybe a ProBoard forum, which is free and very easy to set up.

Thoughts?
 
Box_Of_Frogs said:
I've been following the recent posts regarding highly dubious Parelli training techniques: 5yr olds at Pony Club know more about training and handling a horse than is demonstrated on some of Linda Parelli's videos. Every time a new affront is posted, it gets hundreds, if not thousands, of replies. Anyone up to joining forces and writing to the Parellis from Forum Members to ask for a formal response to the observed so-called training? We would need a "sticky" from Admin then a 1st draft of a letter - crisp and evidenced, not just a rant - that we can all tinker with until we feel it's right and send it to them. H&H might like to feature our efforts and the response in the Magazine.

I'm happy to have a 1st stab to get a structure, then we would need input from eg trainers, instructors, equine behaviourists, vets, natural horsemanship people, ordinary owners etc etc. Come on peeps - let's run with this and DO something that might, just might, make a difference for horses.

ETA - have advised the FatController to ask for a sticky IF this plan takes off.
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Why not just ignore them!!!!???? without the publicity hopefully the whole thing will die , to be honest I dont think that many people follow them and most that try it soon realise its a bastadised form of horsemanship and move on...
 
Count me in!

I think ladyinreds suggestion is a good one. I think it would be better to take any kind of campaigne away from this forum.
 
Count me in! Even if nothing gets done to stop them it might educate people who are novices and follow their methods.
I'll help in any way poss :)
 
I'm afraid I disagree with the 'bringing Parelli down' stance. This is very much a case of tarring everyone with the same brush.

I have a yard down the road who is VERY into parelli. She used to event at a high level but now she hardly rides, just spends time parelli-ing them. Bit of a waste BUT all her horses are calm and quiet and biddable. I've never seen her hit or abuse her horses in any way. She obviously had the back ground to proper horse training but the point is: not everyone who paractises parelli abuses their horses and much of it is highly effective! It works for many people and horses.

Now, Linda Parelli especially is an idiot and has no skill in training horses but that doesn't make all Parelli bad and the 'cult' has got so big that a distinction needs to be made between the 'church' itself and the leader. Just beacuse the Pope is a narrow minded homophobe doesn't mean all catholics should are or that catholisicm should be banned......

Trying to get Linda to justify herself in theory would be wonderful. But, as most probably know, it won't work because their huge PR machine will come into action. Basically stating all you unenlightened plebs don't understand ;) Never will they admit that, actually, that video wasn't a good exmple of 'natural horsemanship' and maybe Linda made a mistake. If Pat Parelli won't admit the mistake they made with Catwalk there's no hope over a small scale training video. All it will do is fuel their fire that the unenlightened peasents like ourselves need praying for even more ;)
 
LauraWheeler said:
even people and I know there are a few out there (even some on here) who started out likeing Parelli but now hate what it has become, a money making buisness and horse welfair seems to have nothing to do with it.
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^^ That's me. Was bought the whole shabang as a present one year, and I will admit that at first I though it made sense. I did try it for a while but it did seems to change into a corporate monster very quickly. What started as gimicks and force aren't needed slowly changed into "buy our bridle, saddle, headcollar, rope, orange stick, supplement, pedestall. . ."

Count me in
 
I think in principle it is a very good idea, but would have to be put forward in an extremely calm, rational debate and heavily backed up with research / evidence. We don't want this to descend into the equine equivalent of Richard Dawkins arguing with Rowan Williams (although I'd be quite interested to watch that come to think of it)!

Also, as some posters have pointed out, there are a lot of natural horsemanship techniques that have resulted in wonderful developments in how we interact with horses now, and any letter of concern must be very, very careful not to just derogate 'natural horsemanship' as a movement.

I think to achieve this, perhaps specific mention of individual training methods that cause concern should be made (for example, flicking a horse in the face with the buckle of a lead rope) and the question should then be raised as to how these specific techniques benefit horsemanship as a whole, as opposed to more 'conventional' methods. I would be very interested to hear LP's response to direct questions over specific techniques, in the face of evidence to demonstrate that other techniques work as well, if not better, and are less traumatic.

Count me in, happy to help as long as we can stick to the evidence and not bring in any 'moral' standpoints along the way.

Flix
 
I think it's a good idea, after all you have to make a noise before people start to listen, so you have my support.

However do think how you go about the letter or HHO's point of view on it all should not be aimed purely at the use of Parelli, as I do in small doses think some of which they do is useful if conducted the right way with some horses, obvioulsy it's not a NH bashing, think you just have really make the point that the uproar is only about some of the practices they use and that a lot of people find it not only shocking but it totally (in my mind anyway) going against the grain of what they are trying to teach people.

I do hope something comes about this though, it's a way forward.
 
Count me in, I'll definitely put my name on this such thing.

As has been mentioned though, I think its important to keep it VERY fact based and non-emotional and essentially a request for the justification of the methods that the Parelli's themselves use and market on their videos and in their demos. Its very important not to demonise 'ordinary' horse owners who follow the Parelli technique (even if they do think we need praying for!! We can rise above that!). It would also be nice to find out why they seem to brainwash their students into thinking that there is no other way of training a horse - though I feel the use of the word 'brainwash' could possibly be a tad inflammatory :)
 
Ladyinred said:
At first I really disagreed with this statement but I have had a think.

There are lots of forums, most of us belong to at least a couple. How about someone sets up a forum to specifically make a plan of action. No ranting, but the collation of information and help composing letters? This could stay here as a sticky to direct people and a similar thread could be stickied on other forums.

Not a FB account, there are too many people dislike FB (me included!) but maybe a ProBoard forum, which is free and very easy to set up.

Thoughts?
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:) I didn't mean it angrily, just that the board belongs to Horse and Hound and you'd need to get full approval from the company that owns them and the editorial team to run an anti-Parelli campaign from this site. Probably not something they want to do as it could embroil them in all sorts of legal cases (see French Rescues)!
 
We don't want this to descend into the equine equivalent of Richard Dawkins arguing with Rowan Williams

Personally, I would give my right arm to see Richard Dawkins wipe the floor with....sorry, interview.... Pat and linda Parelli. I can hear it now....

RD....."Learning theory would suggest that you are physically punishing for no apparent reason."

LP...." That is the arguement of most rationalists, yes"

RD...."Hmmm. So most rational thinkers would find what you do completely irrational? "

LP...."Yes, I guess they would. They would need to study to level 4 to become suitably irrational"
 
leogeorge said:
We don't want this to descend into the equine equivalent of Richard Dawkins arguing with Rowan Williams

Personally, I would give my right arm to see Richard Dawkins wipe the floor with....sorry, interview.... Pat and linda Parelli. I can hear it now....

RD....."Learning theory would suggest that you are physically punishing for no apparent reason."

LP...." That is the arguement of most rationalists, yes"

RD...."Hmmm. So most rational thinkers would find what you do completely irrational? "

LP...."Yes, I guess they would. They would need to study to level 4 to become suitably irrational"
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Fantastic.......wonderful response! Certainly happy to help with this move if i can...
 
Box_Of_Frogs said:
...yes but at least we'll have done SOMETHING rather than just rant to each other! It's the equivalent of a livery yard where liveries moan and groan to each other but no-one has the guts to go and talk to the YO. I don't do sitting around moaning - I do standing up and being counted. If the only result we get is that the Parellis are more careful about their training videos, at least it's a start. That's how big changes happen, in small, baby steps.
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True true.

Can we/you make some sort of online petition up and pass it around?
 
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