Part two of 'dangerous dogs'

Copperpot said:
All dogs have the potential to be dangerous not only ones you can measure to be a certain type.

I simply do not agree with labelling a dog based purely on looks.
Click to expand...

You are missing the point. Those breeds are banned because of physiological characteristics which make them exceptionally dangerous should they attack. The strength in jaw, and the inbuilt 'fight to the death' bred into pitbulls over time sets them very much apart from other types of dogs, who will mostly attack, and then move away.

It is nothing to do with these types of dogs being anymore 'aggressive' than others in temperament - it is all to do with the characteristics which make the attacks highly likely to be fatal should they attack.
 
Moomin1 said:
You are missing the point. Those breeds are banned because of physiological characteristics which make them exceptionally dangerous should they attack. The strength in jaw, and the inbuilt 'fight to the death' bred into pitbulls over time sets them very much apart from other types of dogs, who will mostly attack, and then move away.

It is nothing to do with these types of dogs being anymore 'aggressive' than others in temperament - it is all to do with the characteristics which make the attacks highly likely to be fatal should they attack.
Click to expand...

If this was the case then all the fatalities that have occurred would have been by Pitbulls, lots of dogs are bred for generations to do a job whether its terriers to kill vermin or sheepdogs to round up sheep. Pitbulls were bred to fight other dogs it dosnt make them killers of humans though does it anymore than Terrier or Sheepdogs.

The law is deeply flawed, a set of measurements could make a Boxer x Labrador deemed of type, now that dog could have other siblings which dont fit the type criteria, what sort of law is that. I hate BSL and the sooner its kicked out the better but my biggest fear is they will just add other breeds to the list as its easiest.
 
Dobiegirl said:
If this was the case then all the fatalities that have occurred would have been by Pitbulls, lots of dogs are bred for generations to do a job whether its terriers to kill vermin or sheepdogs to round up sheep. Pitbulls were bred to fight other dogs it dosnt make them killers of humans though does it anymore than Terrier or Sheepdogs.

The law is deeply flawed, a set of measurements could make a Boxer x Labrador deemed of type, now that dog could have other siblings which dont fit the type criteria, what sort of law is that. I hate BSL and the sooner its kicked out the better but my biggest fear is they will just add other breeds to the list as its easiest.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying it's right or wrong. That's the reasoning behind the banning of those breeds.

Pit bulls have been bred over time to have a determination that few other breeds/types have when it comes to fighting/killing. Fighting pit bulls often continue to fight with broken legs, half dead, and bleeding out everywhere. They will not give up, however injured they are, until the other is dead. That's where they differ in the main from other breeds.
 
Moomin1 said:
You are missing the point. Those breeds are banned because of physiological characteristics which make them exceptionally dangerous should they attack. The strength in jaw, and the inbuilt 'fight to the death' bred into pitbulls over time sets them very much apart from other types of dogs, who will mostly attack, and then move away.

It is nothing to do with these types of dogs being anymore 'aggressive' than others in temperament - it is all to do with the characteristics which make the attacks highly likely to be fatal should they attack.
Click to expand...

Your missing the point. They were bred to fight others dogs. Not humans. Bull breeds tend to be excellent with people.

And we didn't see any pitbulls on that programme. Breed a staffy with a lab and you may get something which looks type. It isn't a pitbull thought which has been bred to fight is it.
 
Copperpot said:
Your missing the point. They were bred to fight others dogs. Not humans. Bull breeds tend to be excellent with people.

And we didn't see any pitbulls on that programme. Breed a staffy with a lab and you may get something which looks type. It isn't a pitbull thought which has been bred to fight is it.
Click to expand...

Pit bulls were not bred to fight other dogs. Pit bulls were bred to bull bait, bear bait and fight cockerels in Britain originally. It was only when laws against this were introduced that it more or less stopped, and dog fighting replaced it.

As I said before, 'pit bulls' are not breeds. They are types. Types based on measurements and characteristics. Those measurements define whether it is a pit bull type. So yes, a staffy x lab may be classed as a pit bull.

The reasoning behind the law as it stands is that pit bull 'types' have certain characteristics which are *more likely to result in serious injury/death *should they attack, than other types of dog.

Like I say, I am not agreeing or disagreeing, merely pointing out that that is what the law is based on.
 
Ok say you had a litter of 4 puppies, staffy x labs. 2 came out like pitbull types and 2 didn't. Those 2 would differ from their litter mates how? Same breeding. It's purely based on looks. And for someone who doesn't agree with it, your doing a good job of slating bull breeds and making them out to be monsters. Too much Daily Mail???
 
Pit bulls have been bred over time to have a determination that few other breeds/types have when it comes to fighting/killing. Fighting pit bulls often continue to fight with broken legs, half dead, and bleeding out everywhere. They will not give up, however injured they are, until the other is dead. That's where they differ in the main from other breeds.

You have not seen Terriers in action then or a police dog continue to hang on to a felon even though they have been shot, the thing which keeps dogs going is adrenalin and that's not exclusive to Pitbulls.

As I said BSL is a stupid law and is flawed in every way.
 
Copperpot said:
And we didn't see any pitbulls on that programme. Breed a staffy with a lab and you may get something which looks type. It isn't a pitbull thought which has been bred to fight is it.
Click to expand...

Yes we did the chap who was crying about his dog being castrated (for goodness sake he needed to get a grip) his dog was known to be a pit bull that is what he bought it as being and it was very true to type in appearance.

I agree that the breed alone is not always an issue, I have met nice and nasty in many breeds of dogs including pit bulls-but we cannot deny that they are a very very powerful dog with tremendous jaw strength and they can inflict incredible damage in no time at all-yes other breeds are powerful but I believe the pit bull has the strongest jaw although I stand to be corrected on that.
When we discuss bred and breed characteristics some of the dogs on the banned list are dogs that are designed to independently guard-that does create a dog that is more likely to be a problem in a busy society.

One thing that always puzzles me though, if we feel that the breed is never the issue and that with socialisation and excersise we can override anything in the dogs breeding will someone please explain why; my lurcher that will kill rabbits, stoats, weasels etc and has a real passion for cats has no hunting instinct at all when it comes to ferrets-she lives with 2 terriers who are wary of the ferrets but do have a hunt instinct with them, the ferrets are not in the house and we have not trained her to leave them, she had not seen ferrets till she came to us at 8weeks old so had no previous experience with them. the only reason I can think of that she has no hunt instinct with them is that she comes from a long line of dogs that are worked with ferrets (amongst other work) so it is in fact bred into her to lick them rather than chomp them-I know this is not human aimed aggression but it still demonstrates an inbred reaction to a situation
 
I had a little google and apparently a pit bull has the fourth strongest bite. Lower than a German shepherd.

Not sure about the ferret thing. My jrt used to work with ferrets fine. Once day he bit the lock off the hutch and killed them. You can buy a working terrier who's generations of family have worked and it may not. I guess individual dogs have individual traits. I think 8 weeks is young enough for her to learn to accept them. Perhaps it would be different if she met them when she was older. I have had terriers as puppies who have accepted cats but an adult one who hadn't met them before wouldn't. All dogs are different I suppose and that's the problem. They can't be stereotyped on how they look as that isn't a given on how they will act.
 
Copperpot said:
I had a little google and apparently a pit bull has the fourth strongest bite. Lower than a German shepherd.

Not sure about the ferret thing. My jrt used to work with ferrets fine. Once day he bit the lock off the hutch and killed them. You can buy a working terrier who's generations of family have worked and it may not. I guess individual dogs have individual traits. I think 8 weeks is young enough for her to learn to accept them. Perhaps it would be different if she met them when she was older. I have had terriers as puppies who have accepted cats but an adult one who hadn't met them before wouldn't. All dogs are different I suppose and that's the problem. They can't be stereotyped on how they look as that isn't a given on how they will act.
Click to expand...

she did not meet them till she was much older as I value my ferrets and the kids were young so to avoid accidents the dogs were always away if the ferrets were out-but yes agree that we cannot judge by looks alone but I do think that people should realise that many people are put off approaching a dog but how it looks and we cannot blame the people for that
 
Sorry my mistake, I read it as she met them at 8 weeks.

I have no problem with people not wanting to approach certain dogs. People cross the road when I am walking my staffy and dobie. The sad thing is they love people. If I have the little terriers they want to fuss over them. If they knew what those 2 got up to, they would probably rather fuss the staffy who wouldn't hurt a fly.

I do have a problem with dogs who have never shown aggression being seized and put to sleep though. Out of all the dogs we have fostered one has bitten, it drew blood and has bitten more than 5 people. Interestingly it was the only dog we fostered who wasn't a bull breed. But he's not a dangerous dog apparently as he is small and cute.
 
Dry Rot said:
It's really quite simple. The problem is not the indiscriminate breeding of dogs but the indiscriminate breeding of their owners who have no use in society except as stars on the Jeremy Kyle show. Who is for castration and PTS? :D
Click to expand...

Dry rot for PM! Sod lib dems, labour and conservatives you can start the common sense party
 
Copperpot said:
Ok say you had a litter of 4 puppies, staffy x labs. 2 came out like pitbull types and 2 didn't. Those 2 would differ from their litter mates how? Same breeding. It's purely based on looks. And for someone who doesn't agree with it, your doing a good job of slating bull breeds and making them out to be monsters. Too much Daily Mail???
Click to expand...

Where have I slated bull breeds?

I actually love bull breeds. I have said twice now, I am merely stating WHY the law WAS put in place, not MY opinion or whether I think the law is right or wrong.

It is not based on looks - it is based on measurements. Rightly or wrongly. That is how it is decided.
 
Copperpot said:
Sorry my mistake, I read it as she met them at 8 weeks.

I have no problem with people not wanting to approach certain dogs. People cross the road when I am walking my staffy and dobie. The sad thing is they love people. If I have the little terriers they want to fuss over them. If they knew what those 2 got up to, they would probably rather fuss the staffy who wouldn't hurt a fly.

I do have a problem with dogs who have never shown aggression being seized and put to sleep though. Out of all the dogs we have fostered one has bitten, it drew blood and has bitten more than 5 people. Interestingly it was the only dog we fostered who wasn't a bull breed. But he's not a dangerous dog apparently as he is small and cute.
Click to expand...

Any dog is classed as a 'dangerous' dog if it is dangerously out of control in a public place. It is not exclusive to bull breeds.
 
Yes and in my opinion this dog is dangerous. To make matters worse the rescue pts a staffy for growling at a person yet this little terrier is allowed to consistently bite people. In my eyes that is wrong. He left my OH and his friend with scars from bites.
 
Copperpot said:
Yes and in my opinion this dog is dangerous. To make matters worse the rescue pts a staffy for growling at a person yet this little terrier is allowed to consistently bite people. In my eyes that is wrong. He left my OH and his friend with scars from bites.
Click to expand...

That sounds completely irresponsible of them. :-(
 
And very unfair on the dog. It gets returned from every home as it attacks everyone. No life for him living out his days in kennels and constantly being passed around.

I've never felt so guilty as I did the day I returned him but we got pretty sick of being attacked in our own home and the other dogs were getting upset by it.

Sorry if I misunderstood you earlier. I get quite upset over the whole measurement thing being acceptable as a law.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top