Partoow or other dressage experts - idiots guide to Pirouettes needed!

Ludi-doodi

Ludi-doodi

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As the title says - can anyone give me a step by step description of the aids for Pirouettes? I was attempting them yesterday in my lesson at each end of the B/E line. Failed miserably and managed mostly to turn about theforehand instead. I did manage it a couple of times, but to be honest I can't say I knew what I was doing, it was more luck than judgement! Instructor can be a bit ditsy and thought I had done these before. Her only instruction was it's the same as haunches in (which we'd done fairly successfully along the long edge) but on a circle! Any help much appreciated.
 
I assume you are talking about 1/2 walk pirouettes? If so how is you shoulder fore/shoulder in as this is a good exercise to establich before pirouette?
 
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Her only instruction was it's the same as haunches in (which we'd done fairly successfully along the long edge) but on a circle

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Not heard that before, I have to confess I'm confused about how it would work. I,ve always started form a position of shoulder fore down the long side
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I am afraid cannot help with the aids but what springs to mind from your post is your instructor. If all she could tell you was that it was the same as haunches in yet you were still struggling where was her alternative explanation to help you get to grips with it. Ditsy or not that is not very helpful IMO.
 
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I assume you are talking about 1/2 walk pirouettes? If so how is you shoulder fore/shoulder in as this is a good exercise to establich before pirouette?

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Yes, 1/2 walk pirouttes. Shoulder fore/in not bad actually better away from the fence than on the track.
 
The way i have always taught it is to get shoulder in on the 3/4 line. Once that is happening in a nice relaxed manner slightly collect using outside rein and as the steps shorten use outside leg to ask the outside hind to cross over the inside hind. I then use the hands and shoulders the guide the horse round into the piroutte and making sure to keep the horse bending. To start with keep the piroutte nice and big and as you get used to the aids gradually make it smaller. If the horse "sticks" and spins on the hind legs rather than staying in true walk i tend to get going forwards again maybe have a trot and then come back to it. If the horse has never done them before it might be easier to start on the outside track so they have the wall to stop them stepping out with the hind leg rather than under.
 
You should be able to ride shoulder in and quarters in on a circle with a fairly decent amount of angle.
The problem with riding it from a haunches in on a circle is that in a pirrouette, the horse steps around with the front legs whereas a haunches in keeps the fronts on the same line so it's a confusing start for the horse.
I prefer to ride it from a shoulder in where you've already got the shoulders moving. Just ride 1/4 pirras to start and keep them quite open. You need to slightly push down on the inside seat bone with a closing outside rein, inside leg on the girth to create the bend and the outside leg asks the shoulders to step round more.
 
I got taught them by doing a pentagon (not exact, could end up square or hexagon!) so you're on a 20m circle but walking straight lines, and you want to do a little shallow corner every so often so that you stay on the circle if that makes sense.
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So for each little corner, make sure you're marching forwards, half halt, put your leg on the outside girth, outside hand blocks horse from turning head in, inside hand guides head in direction of turn. You might need to use your inside leg back to prevent the quarters from coming in if your horse mistakes it for leg yield. Aim for one step to start off with and build up from that.

If that doesn't work you could try it from halt - same aids, just niggle at the girth and tap with whip if necessary to get them to move off that leg in the opposite direction.
 
Not sure i quite agree with you 'naturally' but what ever..
Ok there is no point starting from haunches in as it means the shoulder is already behind the quarters. this means the inside hind does not step forward and can actually prevent the hind legs from almost marking time as well as slightly steping forward. if you lead with the quaters they cross over and he will be forced to step back or out.
So on a square, really get your horse between the two reins , keep your shoulders and his shoulders parallel and really have the feeling that a quick tap with your inside leg at the girth gets a quick response from his inside leg. You increase the engagement of the hindleg by 'taking' on the outside rein as the outside shoulder comes back towards you.
The first feeling you have on the corner of your square is that you take both shoulders in infront of you, almost like you lift them in so that the net result is not a back ward feel in the inside rein but that the shoulders step in, at this moment you tap the inside leg, the outside leg behind the girth does not do anything other than wait quietly behind the girth in a supportive roll as it is in the second or third step of the pirouette that they will step out behind and then the outside leg is ready to hold the hind legs onto the pirouette.
try and imagine the spokes of a bike wheel the hub being the hind legs and the spokes represent each step forward and around that hub, at any moment the feeling should be that you can step froward and out of it. For the corner you should think of 3 steps for a half pirouette 6. Try and keep your shoulders and hips turning as this will help you feel when you need to activate the inside leg as, especially to the right most horses like to lead with the quarters and lose the left shoulder keep feeling the outside shoulder as it comes towards you and at the same time activate the inside hind forward. At the end of the day it is just a very small circle and if you always remember this you will not go far wrong, let the movement do the collecting for you and always keep the quality of the walk upmost in your mind.
i also 'play ' with the idea of a tight turn , bigger turn .. ie play with the size of the pirouette within one movement as this will keep you thinking forward between both reins.
 
PMSL at 'ditsy instructor'
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From the haunches in keep the outside leg back, collect the walk and think about picking up the shoulders and moving them around the haunches. Use your inside leg to stop him falling in, whilst asking him to step across with your outside leg. Look back over your inside shoulder too.
Alot of people dont like asking from haunches in but thats how I learnt it too.
 
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Not sure i quite agree with you 'naturally' but what ever..

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Ooh 'partoow' handbag!
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As I said it was what I was taught and it worked for me. Despite your rude comment, since this post asked you in the title for your help I read your reply with interest. I find it very confusing but what ever...
 
Mostly because your 'aids ' are totally the wrong way around!but i did' nt actually want to say that. I would expect you too find it confusing if you think that is the way to ride a pirouette.
got nothing to do with 'handbag' just everything with asking for it in a way tht teaches the horse the value of correct inside leg [at the girth] and outside rein connection your way does not actually treat this as an exercise to achieve this more like a circus trick.... like i said whatever.
 
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