Passport doesn't match the horse

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Fat_Pony

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Hi, I am new and have a bit of a problem i hope you can help me with. I am a BHS member so will ring them tomorrow, but hoping I can get some ideas here in the meantime.

I have bought a mare and it appears her passport isn't hers. Bought form a private seller and have a reciept of sale. Seller is no longer contactable.

Passport is similar, but blaze and socks different shape and whorls in different places (totally different places). I didn't notice til I looked closely. Hence I didn't notice until recently.

I didn't have her vetted, so vet hasn't seen passport. I am planning to see if she has a chip - do I have to get a vet out or can I borrow a scanner from somewhere/someone? I have a small animal vet in the family - are the scanners all the same as can probably borrow that?

From the chip number, how do i find out who she is and get the correct passport?

It is all a bit fishy and I am little bit worried that investigating will open a can of worms and she'll have been sold whilst on loan or something. I have a reciept and bought in good faith - just want to do the right thing and have the right passport for my mare
 
As far as I know all scanners are the same so you should be able to pick up her chip number.

Having the wrong passport doesn't necessarily mean the worst. The farmer on the yard next to us used to buy in horse, feed them up and then have a sale of 150+ once a year. I helped sort the passports out for the sale, checked the chips, had them all in order. The auctioneers didn't seem too bothered, they just gave out passports which seemed to fit. For example if it was a chestnut mare they just gave the first one they came to. The first 100 or so it was OK, then they started to run out of matching!!!! passports. Total confusion I couldn't believe it. Oh and most of these horses were chipped so there was absolutely no excuse as they had a scanner on site.
 
Yes, I am getting increasingly worried. Until now nothing seemed odd about the sale - seller was nice and had been the owner of the horse in the passport I do have at the address I went to view horse at for many years. But unless the vet who did the markings was drunk, it is not the same horse that i have in front of me.

I think scanning for the chip will answer that, so that is what I hope to do first. Will the scanner they use for the cats and dogs scan for a horse chip? If so - where do I scan to find it?
 
Initial Thoughts

How old is the horse said to be?
Which Passport Issuing Organisation?
When was passport issued?

Are you certain seller was private?
PM me if you prefer not to discuss openly.

You will find BHS Legal Helpline very useful.
 
You scan standing on LHS of neck
Move scanner slowly over middle part of neck under the crest--the chip should go into nuchal ligament not into 'fatty' crest.
 
ok, so how do all these people with the wrong passports go about getting the right ones? Since I don't know what agency she has her passport with? If she has a chip, how do I tell from there who she is passported with? And will the passporting agency simply issue me with a duplicate with my details in? What if sellers is not registered as her owner?

May not be dodgy - he may have just bought her for pennies at a sale and sold on to make a quick buck and be making up a fake story about her past to get more money for her. No idea any more, just want to get it sorted!
 
Fat_Pony said:
Yes, I am getting increasingly worried. Until now nothing seemed odd about the sale - seller was nice and had been the owner of the horse in the passport I do have at the address I went to view horse at for many years. But unless the vet who did the markings was drunk, it is not the same horse that i have in front of me.

I think scanning for the chip will answer that, so that is what I hope to do first. Will the scanner they use for the cats and dogs scan for a horse chip? If so - where do I scan to find it?
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure all the scanners are the same. Usually the chip is put into the left hand side of the neck. However I did see the vet which the farmer used put one or two into the right side (no idea why)
 
Fat_Pony said:
ok, so how do all these people with the wrong passports go about getting the right ones? Since I don't know what agency she has her passport with? If she has a chip, how do I tell from there who she is passported with? And will the passporting agency simply issue me with a duplicate with my details in? What if sellers is not registered as her owner?

May not be dodgy - he may have just bought her for pennies at a sale and sold on to make a quick buck and be making up a fake story about her past to get more money for her. No idea any more, just want to get it sorted!
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Dont panic yet
The name of the organisation should be on the front of the passport eg Pet ID, Horse Passport Agency etc

Get a reading for the chip number then put that into search in www.nedonline.co.uk
That should bring up the passport
 
I've got the same problem my horse & his passport don't seem to match completely... yes he is a horse called Angus but everything is is wrong or missing. He is bay not black, no DOB, no parents, his previous owners never changed the ownership as they didn't know they had to, he is 15hh not 14.2 and several white marks he has picked up are not on the diagrams :/
 
I had the same problem, but luckily the dealer I bought my youngster from knew who had the correct passport, so we just had to swap over. Our mix up happened because the dealer bought 3 similar looking colts from the sales and was just given a pile of passports to go with them. Get in touch with the passport issuer after you've had the horse scanned and let them know what's happened. Hope all gets sorted soon for you. x
 
Ive had similar problem. Mare I bought 7 years ago didn't quite match her passport. Whorls in wrong place etc. Wrote to address that was previous to the vendors and my letter was sent back 'no such address'. Anyway she's still here nobody claimed her, and she is sitting in the field with navicular syndrome so I guess no one will now!
 
rach260 said:
I've got the same problem my horse & his passport don't seem to match completely... yes he is a horse called Angus but everything is is wrong or missing. He is bay not black, no DOB, no parents, his previous owners never changed the ownership as they didn't know they had to, he is 15hh not 14.2 and several white marks he has picked up are not on the diagrams :/
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TBH, some of that can be easily explained especially if his passport was done while he was a foal (different coat colour to the finished article and not always clear cut what they will be in the end) or was still growing and he grew bigger than estimated.
The white marks will probably be old scar marks even if there is no scar just that the damaged hair grew back white and if you ever have the vet out, ask him to amend the passport to include those, to sign it and then send it back to the issuers so they can stamp it; it shouldn't cost you anything for that (unless you're changing ownership at the same time of course)
If there was no covering certificate sent in with his application then no breeding would be recorded in it but there should be an estimate of age in it from the vet (a mare I have just bought was sold as nine and her passport says born 2002 but it was only issued this July, heaven knows where she's been all this time to be without one! My vet said he thought she could be a year younger! No chance of chasing her parentage as it's a HPA passport and the one she has doesn't even have space for breeding details so don't know if that's the norm or they have different ones for known breeding)
 
Its quite a common occurence tbh. I knew a friend of a friend who bought an expensive grey SJ at a sales abroad with a french passport and later discovered it was for a chestnut mare- i know she didnt speak french but how she could think "grey" looked like "chestnut" is quite beyond me! The height was wrong too so I just dont think she checked (one of those more money than sense types). They sorted it out though not entirely sure how. Similarily I was also a muppet with a horse I bought off my instructor- she had only recently imported her from ireland with a 5* vetting so didnt get another done. However when she went for a jab shortly after purchase the vet realised the microchip number wasnt the same and on close examination the markings werent quite identical (we had checked her passport before purchase though not rigorously as we trusted instructor and the marks were almost identical it was only the placings of a couple of whorls that were definetely in the wrong place!). We naturally panicked! But it turned out the irish seller had had a lot of skewbald mares through and somewhere along the line the passports had got mixed up. We sent a letter off to the passport issuer her actual chip was with and provided proof of ownership from purchase from instructor and her purchase from dealer. After checking the chip to ensure she wasnt registered as stolen they were happy and gave us a new duplicate passport for her so we ended up with a mare with better breeding than we paid for and someone out there whose horse doesnt have the breeding they think it does! Fingers crossed theres also just been a mix up for your pone :).
 
I had this problem with a mare i bought private, but had been issued this passport at the sales, it was mega cheap and didnt think to look at its passport, horse had very unusual whorls which wernt on, a sock missing and a blaze????
contacted the passport issuer and they advised to get a new mark up of the horse done and send it back at a cost for the passport to be changed. horse wasnt microchipped so couldnt check its identity. got a new mark up done by vet and got it microchipped and the passport society were not happy at all. Took the money off me to change the passport but had second thoughts and took me ages to convince them that I wasnt dodgy and just wanted this sorting! they couldnt believe how different the two mark ups were!
 
Maesfen said:
(a mare I have just bought was sold as nine and her passport says born 2002 but it was only issued this July, heaven knows where she's been all this time to be without one! My vet said he thought she could be a year younger! No chance of chasing her parentage as it's a HPA passport and the one she has doesn't even have space for breeding details so don't know if that's the norm or they have different ones for known breeding)
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HPA passports are ID only and should not be purchased when breeding is known--most appropriate PIO should be chosen.

Suspect someone wanted to wipe out your mares history so new passport issued--do put chip number through NED and check your passport comes up.

The whole system is a shambles!
DEFRA is aware, hence the attempt to change things earlier this year which was blocked by the breed societies
 
I recently purchased a 14.3 tb type pony with NO microchip, with a microchip passport for a 14h newforest :eek:
have just left it for now as dont really know what to do about it?
 
becca1305 said:
Its quite a common occurence tbh. I knew a friend of a friend who bought an expensive grey SJ at a sales abroad with a french passport and later discovered it was for a chestnut mare- i know she didnt speak french but how she could think "grey" looked like "chestnut" is quite beyond me! The height was wrong too so I just dont think she checked (one of those more money than sense types). They sorted it out though not entirely sure how. Similarily I was also a muppet with a horse I bought off my instructor- she had only recently imported her from ireland with a 5* vetting so didnt get another done. However when she went for a jab shortly after purchase the vet realised the microchip number wasnt the same and on close examination the markings werent quite identical (we had checked her passport before purchase though not rigorously as we trusted instructor and the marks were almost identical it was only the placings of a couple of whorls that were definetely in the wrong place!). We naturally panicked! But it turned out the irish seller had had a lot of skewbald mares through and somewhere along the line the passports had got mixed up. We sent a letter off to the passport issuer her actual chip was with and provided proof of ownership from purchase from instructor and her purchase from dealer. After checking the chip to ensure she wasnt registered as stolen they were happy and gave us a new duplicate passport for her so we ended up with a mare with better breeding than we paid for and someone out there whose horse doesnt have the breeding they think it does! Fingers crossed theres also just been a mix up for your pone :).
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A friend of mine had a pure white arab mare with papers for a chestnut with 4 white socks and a stripe. But wet the mare and you could clearly see the outlines of the white marks. The mare had simply greyed out in time. Its all to do with grey and chestnut being recessive genes I believe.
 
Yeh colours are funny. I didnt think that happened until later in life though as I think the mare was 5 or so. I know they got issued a new passport though so I think it must have been a different horse! I really hate colours should research them to understand more tbh! im hopefully buying a 2yr old bright chestnut not too sure what she will end up as though as her full brother is 4 and now a liver chestnut however my gut says shes going to stay bright! :(
 
smiggy said:
I recently purchased a 14.3 tb type pony with NO microchip, with a microchip passport for a 14h newforest :eek:
have just left it for now as dont really know what to do about it?
Click to expand...

Could cause you problems IF you ever decided to sell the pony.
You need to know 'who your pony is', has it been vaccinated etc.
Your vet should check for microchip on his first visit.

Are you able to ask the seller if a genuine mistake was made and the wrong passport handed over--have they still got your passport?

PM me if you wish to discuss further--no guarantees but will try to help.
 
Cuffey said:
HPA passports are ID only and should not be purchased when breeding is known--most appropriate PIO should be chosen.

Suspect someone wanted to wipe out your mares history so new passport issued--do put chip number through NED and check your passport comes up.

The whole system is a shambles!
DEFRA is aware, hence the attempt to change things earlier this year which was blocked by the breed societies
Click to expand...
It was not blocked by the breed societies what DEFRA was trying to do was illegal and they still have not come up with any other proposals. The breed societies wish to help DEFRA sort out the problems but cannot do anything until DEFRA has come up with new proposals. The main problem is there is no enforcement.
 
I have just bought a 15.2h 4yo gelding from a friend. She purchased this horse from the sales in May. On closer inspection of passport I do not think that it belongs to the horse. He should have a small amount of white on his belly and on the back of the fetlock of his hind leg. He has no white hairs anywhere at all on his body. I don’t think he has a microchip but will get the vet to check this when he comes to do his jabs.
 
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