Passport Petition

[Nats_uk]

Essex Horsewatch is urging horse owners to sign a government petition for a change in horse passport law to stop stolen horses being sold on.

The organisation is also asking for traders who are authorised to issue passports to be checked by the Criminal Records Bureau (CRB) and for a national passport database to be set up to allow instant access for police and vets.

As of this morning (Monday 6 October) the petition had 205 signatures.

The petition closes on 5 November.

To sign visit: http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/horsepassports/

 

[tiggs]

Signed . Hope it is successful

 

[pinktiger]

is this in NL and CR? Probably could go in breeding!!!! have signed,,, need loads more tho!!!

 

[Maesfen]

Ridiculous, isn't it; this should have all been done at the outset but the passport system at the moment is a complete and utter cock up.
Signed and passed on to others!

 

[Rowreach]

Done, the whole passport thing is a joke, so far it has certainly been of no benefit to the Horse.

 

[Ciss]

[ QUOTE ]
Essex Horsewatch is urging horse owners to sign a government petition for a change in horse passport law to stop stolen horses being sold on.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you mean being sold on without a passport then this is already illegal so no change in the law needed

[ QUOTE ]
The organisation is also asking for traders

[/ QUOTE ]

Traders are not allowed to produce their own passports unless they are recognised as passport issuing organisations (PIOs). Approval of these is strictly monitored by DEFRA and all applicants must have legal identity (ie be a company with directors or a charity so indiviual traders are automatically prohibited from applying), provide 3 years audited accounts and in the case of commercial organisations (eg ID-only PIOs) be able to prove long-term positive commitment to the equestrian industry. AFAIK the only trader that was ever allowed to issue passports at point of sale was Southall Market which has now ceased to trade, so again this is already catered for in the legislation. TBH, in the view of many correctly informed people in the industry this call for action is a complete waste of time and effort for all concerned when there are far more pressing equine welfare issues always to hand.

[ QUOTE ]
who are authorised to issue passports to be checked by the Criminal Records Bureau (CRB)

[/ QUOTE ]

See above. It is extremely difficult to get DEFRA approval to become a PIO (ask any existing one!) so CRB checking is just duplicating what the PIO approval system does already. So again no need for change in legislation <sigh>

[ QUOTE ]
and for a national passport database to be set up to allow instant access for police and vets.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oddly enough there is one already -- its called the National Equine Database!!! Access to this is subject to the Data Protection Act and even studbooks and ID only PIOs cannot check the ownership details of animals entered by other PIOs although as it is a government database presumably the police are allowed to access it much as they do the motor vehicle records. This should be sufficient independent fast check for anyone, so again no change in the law is required or possible.

OTOH, if the petition had been less hastily put togther and had been more reasoned in approach it would have called for more FUNDING for the local Trading Standards officials who have to enforce the passport laws and I would have supported (and signed) that wholeheartedly. IOW, the laws to enforce the things that the petition calls for already exists -- and putting it together in the way it is just shows ignorance in the law which is very worrying in an anti-theft organisation -- it is the enforcement procedure that lacks the funding necessary to make sure that the law is fully observed.

[ QUOTE ]
As of this morning (Monday 6 October) the petition had 205 signatures.
The petition closes on 5 November.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bit of a waste of time really. Why not take it down, rewrite it stress the need for funding to operate the current legislation effectively and then ask everyone to sign again? That would be a much more effective use of the petition procedure.

 

[xxxbettyboopxxx]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Essex Horsewatch is urging horse owners to sign a government petition for a change in horse passport law to stop stolen horses being sold on.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you mean being sold on without a passport then this is already illegal so no change in the law needed

[ QUOTE ]
The organisation is also asking for traders

[/ QUOTE ]

Traders are not allowed to produce their own passports unless they are recognised as passport issuing organisations (PIOs). Approval of these is strictly monitored by DEFRA and all applicants must have legal identity (ie be a company with directors or a charity so indiviual traders are automatically prohibited from applying), provide 3 years audited accounts and in the case of commercial organisations (eg ID-only PIOs) be able to prove long-term positive commitment to the equestrian industry. AFAIK the only trader that was ever allowed to issue passports at point of sale was Southall Market which has now ceased to trade, so again this is already catered for in the legislation. TBH, in the view of many correctly informed people in the industry this call for action is a complete waste of time and effort for all concerned when there are far more pressing equine welfare issues always to hand.

[ QUOTE ]
who are authorised to issue passports to be checked by the Criminal Records Bureau (CRB)

[/ QUOTE ]

See above. It is extremely difficult to get DEFRA approval to become a PIO (ask any existing one!) so CRB checking is just duplicating what the PIO approval system does already. So again no need for change in legislation <sigh>

[ QUOTE ]
and for a national passport database to be set up to allow instant access for police and vets.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oddly enough there is one already -- its called the National Equine Database!!! Access to this is subject to the Data Protection Act and even studbooks and ID only PIOs cannot check the ownership details of animals entered by other PIOs although as it is a government database presumably the police are allowed to access it much as they do the motor vehicle records. This should be sufficient independent fast check for anyone, so again no change in the law is required or possible.

OTOH, if the petition had been less hastily put togther and had been more reasoned in approach it would have called for more FUNDING for the local Trading Standards officials who have to enforce the passport laws and I would have supported (and signed) that wholeheartedly. IOW, the laws to enforce the things that the petition calls for already exists -- and putting it together in the way it is just shows ignorance in the law which is very worrying in an anti-theft organisation -- it is the enforcement procedure that lacks the funding necessary to make sure that the law is fully observed.

[ QUOTE ]
As of this morning (Monday 6 October) the petition had 205 signatures.
The petition closes on 5 November.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bit of a waste of time really. Why not take it down, rewrite it stress the need for funding to operate the current legislation effectively and then ask everyone to sign again? That would be a much more effective use of the petition procedure.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually I find this extremeley offensive. this petition was my idea and Horsewatch kindly backed it and put it up for me.

You my dear are wrong on many counts. If it wasnt for naming and shaming I could tell you of 4 people that are authorised to id for passports and all 4 of them are people that sell stolen horses on and rewrite the p/port.

The whole system needs a shake up and for as long as we all sit back and say nothing then xactly that will be done, a big fat nothing!

 

[Ciss]

[ QUOTE ]

Actually I find this extremeley offensive. this petition was my idea and Horsewatch kindly backed it and put it up for

[/ QUOTE ]

Regardless of who backed you, it is misdirected and it is a FUNDING not a legislative issue and it would be far more effective to direct your energies in that direction.

[ QUOTE ]
You my dear are wrong on many counts. If it wasnt for naming and shaming I could tell you of 4 people that are authorised to id for passports and all 4 of them are people that sell stolen horses on and rewrite the p/port.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you mean that they are official identifiers employed by DEFRA-listed ID-only PIOs then please please contact the ID only PIOs concerned with factual evidence of this -- and also inform DEFRA of this as well and as many studbook PIOs as you can (I can give you a list of who to get in touch with to maximize your effort if you want, just PM me) but naming and shaming without evidence wouldn't get you any further even if there was a change in the law (the rules of evidence don't change whatever legislation is in place) so a far more reasoned (less scattergun) approach would be far more effective.

I would also add that the 3-month limitation on selling would completely decimate the breeding industry as many breeders do not receive their passports from studbook PIOs until after the foals are weaned (foals have to be registered no more than 6 months following birth or by the 31 December following foaling whichever is the latter) and that is when they are bought and paid for. Buyers often do not want to wait 3 extra months after passport issue to buy the foal that they will often have booked/paid for and breeders would be equally unhappy about such an arrangement, both of them for insurance and welfare reasons as much as anything. Such a system would also put at risk many of the the drifts and new take schemes that are so vital to the preservation of our native breeds -- and what it would do to bloodstock auctions and high profile competitin foal sales (eg Brightwells) I can't imagine.

[ QUOTE ]
The whole system needs a shake up and for as long as we all sit back and say nothing then xactly that will be done, a big fat nothing!

[/ QUOTE ]

But the only way you can change it is with a full knowledge of how to enforce the current legislation effectively and I do not think that your current petition is the way to go on that at all.