PASSPORT QUERY - LIVERY YARD REQUESTED A COPY!!!!

peanutpussycat

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DOES ANYONE KNOW IF IT IS NORMAL PROCEDURE FOR A LIVERY YARD TO REQUEST A COPY OF THE HORSES PASSPORTS ON THE YARD? THEY SAY IT IS FOR INSURANCE PURPOSES. THEY ALSO WANT VACCINATION COPIES TOO. IS THIS CORRECT AND NORMAL???
 

TequilaMist

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Have never been asked for either up here-N.E Scotland,and have been on a few yards over the years.Don't know if its usual down south tho.
 

icestationzebra

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Mmmm .... I had a previous YO ask for a copy of my horses passport. I wasn't totally happy about it so contacted DEFRA and BHS to check why they would need it. Neither of them could give me any reason why my YO should have a copy of my horses passport unless I was an 'absent' owner who was away for periods of time. Therefore I didn't provide it. I understand why YO's would to see copies of vaccs certs though - a sensible precaution but if you are going to enforce vaccinations you need to have it written into the livery agreement.....
 

peanutpussycat

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They are all vaccinated and I really don't mind them seeing that info, but not totally happy about the passport stuff. What if my horses and the copies got stolen??? They have all my info then. I know its far fetched, but the horses (without sounding really big headed) are pretty nice animals. Bit of a security risk do you think?? Am I being paranoid?
 

Tia

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I would not give them a copy of either sorry. That is your personal information and apart from showing them on arrival the dates of all vaccinations then I think that is all they need to know.

Unless things have changed in the Business Insurance policies since I had my yard in the UK, then I think they are fibbing to you. I never had to do this with my liveries, but I did for my own satisfaction check vaccination certificates of horses before they arrived and I would jot down the dates they were next due.

My advice would be to tell them no but that you would be happy to contact the insurance company directly if there is any information they want from you.
 

Tia

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No I don't think you are being paranoid and I totally agree with you on the security issue. Don't pass on this information as a photocopy - just write down the dates and when you hand that to them show them the passports at the same time so that they can see the dates are the same.
 

Tia

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No way!!! Sorry but I would never hand over my passports to anyone!
shocked.gif
 

henryhorn

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I would offer to show them to them but unless you are an absent owner (rarely visit the yard) I think you can retain the documents at home.
I have all the retired horses' passports here , as most never move on to another place once they retire.
I think this yard owner is being just efficient by the sound of it, we take pics of all our horses especially the livery ones and keep them as a record incase anyone else has to care for them in an emergency.
I would resist giving a copy and just show the vaccinations when done.
 

peanutpussycat

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she does say its her insurance thats requesting it. do you think i'm pushing it to ask her for a copy so I can check it out more? don't want to p*** her off
 

Tia

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Okay....just thought of a get-out clause here. Is the law still that if you transport your horse or take it to a show that you must have it's documents with you?? Voila! You can't give them to her because you need them for this reason.
 

PeterNatt

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Theer is no reason why the insurance company should want to see copies of the passports.

In theory the passport should always be with your horse.

However if they really incist on having them then I would suggest that you provide them with a certified copy which a solicitor can do for you and you can then keep the original.
 

Oaksflight

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I think it's mainly full liveries she keeps as she deals with vacinations etc, however has mine as it's a bit of a confusing situation as I don't own my hoss yet, currently paying him off. However, she's very trustworthy and very good friends with most of the liveries.
 

Tierra

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Our YO keeps most of the passports for our liveries too for the same reason... its full livery and she deals with most of the vaccinations / vet treatments for the horses.

She doesnt have mine though but thats only because I basically live at the place :p
 

Santa_Claus

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same with my YO. i trust her with mine and it makes life easier. they are all kepted locked away in a fire proof safe. If they are vaccinated/treated when i'm not able to be there (ie at work) then the passport can get signed etc as needed without an extra trip to vets. Also i always know where it is which is a major plus with how disorganised I am! LOL
 

Tia

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Ahh well that is totally different if you don't own the horse.

No I'm still not buying this they have to have the passport stuff - when vaccination time comes just give her the vaccination certificate and then take it back afterwards?
 

Agent XXX999

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Just posted but it is not working.

I have never really thought of this (not entirely sure where the passports are in OH's filing system) but....

If the horse has to be PTS does the passport need to be there - I think it does you know. So does taht meen that if neddy's leg is hanging off or worse and there is no other option, YO cannot end his suffering as she doesnt have the passoprt.

What happends when we go away. If the horse needs to go anywhere?

If the case is that the horse cant travel/be PTS without the passport then I woudl be quite happy to give it to YO.

Dont have a clue about passports apart from that they say one of my boys is 158cm - he is 177.8 as he has grown somewhat since it was issued.

Do you think that makes it invalid?
 

YorksG

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The passport does not have to be shown if the horse is pts. It is not being sold etc and does not need to be given or shown. Unfortunately I know this from our own experience.
 

FMM

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I would imagine that on a yard where the horses travel a lot, then it makes sense for the YO to have the original passports.

From a "normal" YO point of view, having a copy ensures that there is no funny business going on i.e. that the horse actually DOES have a passport and it is registered correctly. For example, if a livery disappears, owing money, how is the YO to sell the horse to cover thelivery costs if there is no passport? Surely they deserve some protection as well. If you have a dishonest YO, then there may be problems - perhaps I am lucky and keep my horses with my sister!
 

jinglejoys

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" For example, if a livery disappears, owing money, how is the YO to sell the horse to cover thelivery costs if there is no passport? "----From what I can see they just have to go to certain horse sales or slaughter houses where they can pick one up on the day
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Rambo

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[ QUOTE ]

What happends when we go away. If the horse needs to go anywhere?

If the case is that the horse cant travel/be PTS without the passport then I woudl be quite happy to give it to YO.


[/ QUOTE ]

The passport does not have to travel with the horse unless you are travelling to or from a competition I believe
smile.gif
 

sallyf

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

What happends when we go away. If the horse needs to go anywhere?

If the case is that the horse cant travel/be PTS without the passport then I woudl be quite happy to give it to YO.


[/ QUOTE ]

The passport does not have to travel with the horse unless you are travelling to or from a competition I believe <img src="http://horseandhound.co.uk/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[/ QUOTE ]

Horses are not supposed to travel full stop without a passport unless they are under a certain age and still on there dams.
We as a stud farm wont take a mare onto our property without a passport as if Defra come and check and we have a horse with no papers it is us that is liable for the fine.
Not sure about livery yards but could see why YO would want some proof that said horse actually has a passport.
Re it being illegal to own a horse without one.
 

TGM

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[ QUOTE ]

Horses are not supposed to travel full stop without a passport unless they are under a certain age and still on there dams.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is nothing I can find on DEFRA's website that specifies that horses have to travel with their passport, apart from in the following situations:

"when it is moved into or out of Great Britain
when it is used for the purposes of competitions
when it is moved to the premises of a new keeper
when it is presented at a slaughterhouse for slaughter
when it is sold; or
when it is used for breeding purposes
"

So if you travel your horse to use an indoor school, or have a lesson, or to hack on forestry etc., you are not required to take the passport with you.
 

Rambo

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

What happends when we go away. If the horse needs to go anywhere?

If the case is that the horse cant travel/be PTS without the passport then I woudl be quite happy to give it to YO.


[/ QUOTE ]

The passport does not have to travel with the horse unless you are travelling to or from a competition I believe <img src="http://horseandhound.co.uk/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[/ QUOTE ]

Horses are not supposed to travel full stop without a passport unless they are under a certain age and still on there dams.
We as a stud farm wont take a mare onto our property without a passport as if Defra come and check and we have a horse with no papers it is us that is liable for the fine.
Not sure about livery yards but could see why YO would want some proof that said horse actually has a passport.
Re it being illegal to own a horse without one.

[/ QUOTE ]

It seems that there is a fair amount of conflicting information regarding the travelling of horses with / without passports.

Here is a link to the official Regulations :-

http://www.horsepassportagency.org/forms...ions%202004.htm

Section 17 seems to state that horses need to be accompanied by their passports for the purposes of competing, breeding, movement OUT of the UK, and moving it to the premises of as new keeper.

However, the BHS and a few other sites seem to state that a horse must be accompanied by its passport at all times when travelling.

Section 21 of the document states that an 'Inspector' can enter any premises (and premises in this case includes horse transporter !) and request the production of a passport for all horses on site.

So....i'm no lwayer, but it all seems as clear as mud to me ! If i were a livery yard owner, i'd feel quite within my rights to want to hold a copy of every horses passport that is on my premises and if i travel my horse for any reason i would be well advised to carry the animals passport regardless...just to cover my @rse !

Another piece of clear and undisputable legislation from our government I think
smirk.gif
 

ecrozier

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Although I keep my horses at home I have lessons on a livery yard and when I go away my horse goes there, and the owner there keeps all her liery's passports for exactly that reason, that if an inspector turned up and she had loads of horses there without their passports she would be liable for the fines. I'd happily hand mine over to her...after all if I trust her to look after my horse I would trust her with the passports too. But I am lucky like the above in that I do trust her and again she is quite good friends with most of ther liveries, they/she has been there ages etc.
Difficult if you went somewhere you didn't know the owner well though!
 

gnubee

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I think there could be real problems with recovery of the horse if it was sold by a yard-owner who also had possession of the passport, like when cars are sold by someone who you have also given the log book to--you can reclaim the money off the seller, but cant get the car back.
Until cases have been decided otherwise, there is no way I would let anyone take an original passport away from me. Perhaps if you took a photocopy and clearly marked it "COPY" in red or something that would be enough to keep YO and DEFRA satisfied.

Also, if YO was in a situation where she needed to authorize immediate vet treatment for the horse, might she need to show the passport to prove that the horse was not intended for human consumption?
 

airedale

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I hold all the passports for the horses on the yard - the originals - as legally the passport must remain with the horse at all times.

However you do have a right to have the passports held in a secure manner where your personal details are protected - either on computer or paper - according to the requirements of the Data Protection Act.

This means the details - photocopy or otherwise - should be held in a locked file in a locked room or office to which access is restricted.
 

Tempi

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i definately wouldnt give my YO a copy of passports or vacination certificates. Id show her the dates for vaccinations if she wanted to see them but the passport imo is nothing to do with YOs.

ETS - however both my horses passports are at the yard locked securly in our lorry.
 
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