Passporting foals from un-registered stallion

_jetset_

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I was wondering if you could me. My four brrodmares are all fully papered KWPN and Oldenburg with over 5 generations of pedigree. My stallion is registered KWPN, again with over 5 generation pedigree.

I have used him on my four broodmares this year to see what stock he produces. I adore his type, as he is quite modern and all four mares are a little different so it will be interesting to see. My plan had been to grade him this year, but with the building work in progress we have not been able to prepare and I do not want to take him without being 100% ready (he will have to loose jump and he has never done this) and be trotted up a lot in hand (again with the building work this has not been possible) due to the cost implication being over £1000 for the grading.

I hope to take him in 2014, but obviously have foals due early in the year who will need passporting.

Can I still passport them KWPN but with Reg B Papers (or the same Oldenburg)?
 

_jetset_

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That is great, thank you.

I am hoping he will grade next year, but this year has just been complete mayhem with our building work. I don't think I ever want to see another digger again!
 

sywell

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If you have two pedigree horses of a breeding population the stud book of origin has to give you a passport but the breeding papers will be hardly better that ID only. Many studbooks will let foals in if in the year they are born the stallion is licensed but depends on the breeding rules in each studbook. You clearly want pink papers so talk to the KWPN
 

_jetset_

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I would like three of them to be registered KWPN as I am already a member and also because the three mares are all fully KWPN registered and I would like to put them forwards for grading next year with their foals at foot. I was going to do it this year, but because they are all in foal I decided to leave it for the same reasons as the stallion.

I have one mare who is Oldenberg and I would like to take her and her foal forwards next year as her last one gained Premium by Rubin Star N.

Two of the foals will also be for sale next year due to progressing on to the next year. One is already sold in utero, and I would like to keep on to bring on under saddle.
 

_jetset_

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If the mares are graded and the stallion is not graded, would the foals have blue papers (reg b) with KWPN?

Is it the same process with Oldenburg?
 

Spring Feather

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No idea about KWPN but with German Old I wouldn't think you could get papers for a youngster by an unregistered or unlicensed stallion. German Old are quite strict. Why wouldn't you just have your stallion inspected and licensed next year and then if he passes then you will be able to fully register your youngstock?
 

Lgd

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KWPN would be register b unless he is graded with studbook that they recognise.
Oldenburg would be part-bred papers for the oldenburg mare's foal unless he is graded with a recognised studbook.
 

Rollin

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My understanding is that under EU legislation on passports, you cannot refuse entry to a stud book if the foal is the progeny of two pedigree parents.

However, stud book rules must apply. The Shagya verband has A and B stud books, A for progeny of graded stallions.

CBHS once refused to accept into full stud book, progeny with white markings, now they are entered into the stud book as 'mismarked'. Of course it has been the case that Premium stallions may produce foals with 'white' and 'mismarked' horses produce true bays.

The French National Stud registers progeny of ungraded stallions with OC - that is a full pedigree passport (Origin Known) and OC horses can compete in all levels of competition in France.

Those from graded stallions have Cheval de Race passports.
 

_jetset_

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No idea about KWPN but with German Old I wouldn't think you could get papers for a youngster by an unregistered or unlicensed stallion. German Old are quite strict. Why wouldn't you just have your stallion inspected and licensed next year and then if he passes then you will be able to fully register your youngstock?
I would like to get him inspected next year but they are all quite late and I would like to take the foals to the inspections which are all earlier...
 

_jetset_

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My understanding is that under EU legislation on passports, you cannot refuse entry to a stud book if the foal is the progeny of two pedigree parents.

However, stud book rules must apply. The Shagya verband has A and B stud books, A for progeny of graded stallions.

CBHS once refused to accept into full stud book, progeny with white markings, now they are entered into the stud book as 'mismarked'. Of course it has been the case that Premium stallions may produce foals with 'white' and 'mismarked' horses produce true bays.

The French National Stud registers progeny of ungraded stallions with OC - that is a full pedigree passport (Origin Known) and OC horses can compete in all levels of competition in France.

Those from graded stallions have Cheval de Race passports.
I find all of this so confusing... Both stallion and mare are more than 5 generation pedigrees with either KWPN or Oldenburg. Although I would have liked to have graded him this year, the circumstances that surrounded this (the huge building project) and also the costs that come with grading, I opted to see what his progeny were like once on the ground before making any further plans. I just wish I had taken him now, but he would not have been prepared to the level I would have liked.
 

Rollin

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Have you contacted KWPN and Old to see if they have A and B stud books like the Shagya verband?

You could also contact the German Equestrian Federation as they have English speakers who could help you with Old registration. Here is the phone number
0049 2581 636 2191
 

Lgd

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Think you are too late to put him forwards for the KWPN grading process which starts at 2½yo and they will only do an initial evaluation in the UK. After tha the whole process would have to be in the Netherlands

Your best option is to get him graded with a UK studbook that is recognised by the World Breeding Fed and then register the foals. KWPN don't recognise all of the studbooks though so check their list out first.

Your main options that do stallion gradings here are AES, ZfDP, WBS, SHB(GB) and SSH. All have slightly different requirements for the grading.
 

_jetset_

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Thank you Rollin... will give them a call.

Lgd, yes I am going to go through one of the UK based ones as I do not want to send him away for such a long period and also, as you have stated, I only got him as a 3 year old so had missed the initial inspection. I believe that AES are not coming to the UK at the moment (they did not this year) so I was looking at the BWB or SHB(GB).
 
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