Pastern Dermatitis "mud fever"

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xStephx

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I posted a couple of weeks ago about summer mud fever / photosensitivity. I had the vet out as it was getting no better.

He said it didn't look like photosensitivity but not classic mud fever as the bacteria that causes this is normally not present in the weather we have at the moment. Plus the added fact that he gets this every summer and it actually clears in winter. He just said that it must be some other pathogen that is causing the sores. I was given a course of antibiotics, steroids and flamazine cream, which I was to wrap the leg in for a couple of hours everyday. I rang last Friday and spoke to the vet as it was getting better, there were just two stubborn cracks that were refusing to look better and the skin was all flaky but I didn't know if this was skin or scabs. He said to keep going with the flamazine and reduce the steroids which I have done.

Sunday I wrapped the leg for 2 - 2 1/2 hours and the remaining scabs came away with and most of the flaky hard bits came away too leaving nice pink skin. I decided that possibly the two stubborn scabs were now wounds as they were not pussy underneath and bled and should probably heal for a day or two. So this morning I worked him and washed his leg off, got the scabs off and the wound / sore underneath is no better and where there was nice pink skin this is now discoloured, like a purpley / muddy colour and another crack has formed where some of the flaky skin came off. The skin in areas has gone very hard again.

I have rang the vet am waiting for a phone call back, but I was wondering if anyone had any experience of anything similar with the cracks and flaky skin / scabs. He is a thoroughbred with very little hair on his heels and pasterns. I battle with this every year and have no answer and the normal treatments just don't work. I don't want to keep wrapping in flamazine as it's almost like it strips the skin leaving fragile vulnerable skin underneath that then just gets infected with something. Its not horrendous, he's had worse but this is the most stubborn it has ever been, it gets more stubborn every year. Thinking it would be worth asking for a skin scraping taken to see if we can find the cause as surely it can't be just classic mud fever? At least if we know the cause it might give a few more treatment options maybe?

Any ideas appreciated.......thanks :)
 
Mud fever can also be caused in Summer by the mud that turns to dust. The dusty mud gets into the fur and to the skin causing the problem. Flammazine is very good for healing, its used on human burns victims to help their skin heal. Stop washing it off and if you do have to just use either water on its own or a very gentle shampoo like Dermoline, tea tree. Dry thoroughly and if its looking good you could try Keratex mud shield powder, Lincoln do the Muddy Buddy powder too. Its a dry application and helps protect from mud dust. I used it in Winter on my mare after trying other treatments. It was the only one that worked really well and got rid of the soreness.

Good luck with it, its frustrating especially in Summer....
 
My old TB used to get this, usually in the dryest weeks of the year and nothing I tried really helped to get rid of it.
For other reasons we moved yards and it cleared up within a couple of weeks and never returned.
My vet and I came to the conclusion that it was caused by the dried thistles in the field at the old yard which must have scratched his sensitive skin and let the bacteria in. As there weren't any at the new yeard the problem never reoccured.
 
Could it be leukocytoclastic vasculitis?

My TB appears to suffer from this, it's more an immune reaction and can be triggered by things like UV light. I found the best thing to do was leave it well alone, the more lotions and potions applied the worse it got, but kept covered up and clean it started healing itself. Took a long time (as in about 6 weeks to fully go, and was 50p sized patches in a couple of places on the pastern/fetlock on both his white legs) and some people will disagree but I found interfering was the worst thing I could do.
 
My TB horse has a similar problem, it starts in the Spring, affects his back legs and he's had it for 10 years now. it starts with the skin being greasy with the hair coming out in clumps. His legs can get sore and a bit scabby and have even been swollen in the past. the vet is mystified, I've even had him injected for mites! this year I seem to have stopped it. As soon as he started losing his coat in the spring I started scrubbing his legs with a diluted solution of hibiscrub, leaving the solution on and then washing off after a few minutes. I tried to dry his legs off before stabling him. For the first time for ten years he has hair on his back legs and absolutely no sign of sores or scabs. I don't know if it will help your horse but it may be worth trying next year.
 
Thanks for all the replies so far, I tried to prevent it this year by washing with malaseb and leaving on for 10 mins, which I was given last year, after I work him which is about 3 times a week, just to wash off the sand as I believe this is an irritant. It didn't work. I'm still washing off after I work him but don't really want to as I know this will dry his leg out further. The soil is sand based and of course having two together they play in this mud so it gets covered in sandy dust, which really doesn't help. Everything I do seems to make it worse, I was trying mud shield powder before the vet came out and didn't wash it at all really but it didn't do anything for him. Just dried out his leg and the scabs were really hard as was the rest of skin on his heels. I'm interested in trying the Equimed AG boots or dressings having read their website, would prefer the heel boot over the dressing as easier to apply just not sure about the cost but when I've just spent £168 on drugs that only worked for about a week and a half I guess its not that much!
 
The fact that the problem is seasonal really makes me think it is LV. I had 5 vets look at my horse before he was diagnosed with this (after 2 years) the worst thing I could have done is keep trying different treatments for the 'mud fever', which is what I've been doing under vet supervision.
I would get your vet to consider it. You may need a biopsy to diagnise but it really is worth doing.
 
Based on it being Pastern Dermatitis rather than LV or something else, my Arab used to get this in the Summer. When it was at the initial scab stage, I thoroughly soaked with Hibiscrub, removed the scabs once they were soft and easy to remove, rinsed the leg and then dried thoroughly with disposable kitchen towel as advised by my vet. I was given Fuciderm cream to put on the leg for a maximum of 5 days which cleared it up fine. The vet stressed that I should not then pick off the scabs once the healing process had begun and should keep getting his legs wet to a minimum as this just gives the bacteria an ideal environment in which to breed. The vet said he would be prone to this on the leg which is white haired with pink skin underneath as opposed to his other legs which are all black, I was advised to keep the skin on this leg supple with something as basic as Sudocream which is readily available at any chemist. This works a treat as long as I remember to do it regularly and really rub it in. You don't want to end up with a smeary white mess as this just attracts the dust etc. so just do it like you would a moisturiser on your face. Hope this helps.
 
I wrapped it up last night in the flamazine again for a short while and again all the dry hard skin came off along with most of the flaky stuff which appeared to have black dots in it, the skin in between his heels still looked a funny colour though. It did look better last night once everything was off, and I was tempted to wash off the mud trapped on the hair by the flamazine but didn't. It just seems that when I put the flamazine on and turn out all the sandy mud then gets stuck to skin causing more issues, as the bottom of his heels which weren't affected in the beginning now are. I didn't get a phone call off the vet so will see if I get one today and see what he advises. I asked last time I spoke to him if it would be a good idea to moisturise with something like E45 cream when the skin was dry and he said that would probably be good idea. I've tried sudocream before but the mud gets stuck in it and then on the skin and causes more sores, I did this last year to soften the scabs which worked, but it made it spread all over his pastern, heels and inside of fetlock. So we avoid anything that is a barrier and may possibly trap bacteria / moisture inside.
 
My mare had this this on her pink heels the first summer I had her. It was very stubborn but was eventually cleared by my vets steroid/antib mud fever cream. Since then I have made sure to keep sunblock on them in the summer months when the hair is thin (filtabac cream is my favourite but anything with zinc oxide will do) and they haven't recurred. There is useful information on treatment in Kieran O' Brien's veterinary manual. You should be able to Google it.
 
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Honestly, Equimed AG boots are a godsend for stuff like this. They worked brilliantly on LV dermatitis on our mare and so easy rather than all the faff of creams etc. My insurance paid for half the 2nd pair (got the first pair 2nd hand) after vet wrote a letter to them as was so impressed with healing time. Well worth the money and Kay there is really helpful if you need advice. Seen to work well for all types of skin issues.
 
I have the evening posted on their Facebook page as they are after horses with mud fever / dermatitis for a study and Kay is going to email me the info tomorrow. Even if the study isn't for us I will definitely be speaking to them about which product would be best.

It is now worse than before the vet saw it after following their advice. He must've had it about a month now and nothing is working. I want to phone them again but I really don't know what else they can do apart from take a scraping and find the cause. Normal treatments are't working. Its as if the flamazine strips all the good skin as well leaving it fragile which then breaks out in more sores. It sounds stupid but that is how it appears.
 
Get the vet to do a biopsy, you really need a vet who gets skin problems, and doesn't just think everything is mud fever. Luckily I have a dermatology specialist & he took one look at my horses leg & said Auto Immune Disease, where the previous 5 had said Mud Fever, Mites, fungus, genetic dermatitis etc etc. Hopefully mine is now clearing up with mega steriods, but I wish we'd done this 2 years ago.
 
I would try UV boots at least before you biopsy. Biopsy is very unpleasant and expensive, and my horse now has two tiny areas of proud flesh where the vet insisted on stitching the holes closed. I've been using honey to treat the scabs because my horse's trigger factor seems to be oil-based creams. If left with nothing though, the scabs just gradually get worse.
 
I suggested some form of photosensitivity to the vet and he said it didn't look like that, but with Fred being a seasonal head shaker as well it wouldn't surprise me if there was some kind of photic trigger or auto-immune disorder. However I believe one little patch may well have been started by wet mud in warm weather this time it just doesn't make sense that he always gets it in summer. He had two grazes to this leg which would normally end up as mud fever and I treated with malaseb which cleared them up but the other sores that have appeared since don't respond to this now whereas they did last year.

I was thinking of trying UV boots but not sure if these would make his legs sweat at all(I know they are made from mesh) as his legs get very sweaty in boots even though there is barely any hair! Sweat also causes more sores on his leg.

I have spoken with equi-med today and we're going to take part in their study which involves taking and sending swabs back to Glasgow Vet School to the specialist who is involved with them, applying their dressings and recording the results every three days. Obviously if the swabs come back with something other than mud fever type bacteria they will advise you to call the vet. The swabs alone I think will be interesting. Kay also told me about the effects of flamazine and how you can end up in a vicious circle with it, as although it heals wounds it leaves traces of silver in the skin, which is in effect a foreign body therefore causing more sores as the skin tries to get rid of the foreign body.

I have my fingers crossed that we see some improvement with this study.
 
Hi, I have to deal with pastern dermatitis regularly, and agree that it seems to be connected to thistles, and/or sunlight, and is bacterial or fungal. My tried and tested method is as follows.
Do not interfere with lesions, let them come off on their own.
First spray with purple spray (pure) while they are dry, not pretty unless you like purple horses! Make sure you give them a good soaking with it.
When this has dried, preferably the next day, smother all the lesions thickly with the following mixture.
Buy a tub of Udder Cream and a tub of Sulphur powder from your local feed merchants, and, in a separate container, mix about a quarter of the udder cream with about half that quantity of sulphur powder. Use this daily at least, until the lesions soften and come away. The cream is antiseptic and prevents the lesions from cracking, which is very painful.
It can take up to a few weeks, but usually the hair will be starting to grow back by the time the lesions come off.
The old version used Pig Oil, but as this is a mineral oil I prefer to use something designed for the skin.
I have tried everything over the years, and here are my conclusions:
Sudocreme, effective when you catch it early, but expensive. Tesco Zinc baby cream equally good but cheaper.
Flamazine, similarly effective but very expensive.
Steroids, necessary if you have a very very bad case, but requires veterinary attention (as does Flamazine)
Global Herbs Mud X, Brilliant as a preventative, and also as a cure, but needs a bit of help in bad cases in the beginning.
The years that I have had bad cases, are the years that I have run out of Mud X.
Purple spray and Agriclens work but need assistance.
The horses that had bad doses of it last year have been on Mud x all this summer and no sign of it so far!
One of the others had a small spot and I applied Leucillin as an experiment as I had been told that it is effective. It went!

If you show your horse, you may not want to use purple spray, in that case just use the cream mixture.
Sulphur powder can also be used on rain scald.
As with anything else, try a small patch test for 24 hours before going ahead with treatment, horses, like humans can react in different ways. I've got one that is allergic to Aloe Vera!
I agree with the person who said leave it completely alone and let it heal on it's own, because that's what I do when they get it on their pink noses. (If they see me with, or smell the sunscreen they leg it!) It does heal on it's own, but usually they get a bit of lameness, and sometimes a bit of swelling on the feet.
Bonus to this treatment is that your hands feel wonderful!
 
My horse has been suffering from the dreaded LV since January. Like so many it was initially miss-diagnosed as Mud Fever. As recommended by Derek Knottenbelt, I'm using steroid with antibiotic cream supplied by my vet and avoiding any exposure to UV light. This has to be kept up for months until hopefully the condition resolves. Regretably I stopped using the cream two months ago, for 10 days while I tried the Equimed AG boots (the cream can't be used with the boots). What a disaster! My poor horse's leg flared up -got much worse, horribly swollen and painful and suffered just the sort of relapse which is now taking months longer to get through.
I'm glad the boots helped your horse, Billabongchick, and I would try them again for Mud Fever and other infections and wounds, but not for LV after my experience.
Thank you for posting Prof K's quote, Billabongchick, very much along the lines that he emailed to me via my vets, except for the sunflower oil which is new info for me so I'll certainly add that to my regime.
Commiserations to everyone else who's battling this horrible condition. It sure is hell.
 
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