Paul Schockemohles 2009 stallion collection

[southsidestud]

Ive noticed has a few new ones,and noticed Champion FP is no longer on there

theres a new young Holstein on there (Castino) looks quite nice is any body using any of these stallions this year

 

[eventrider23]

I was looking at the DVD just last night and I have to say that a couple of them really caught my eye this year. One that I was pleasantly surprised at is Califax (Calido I x Julio Mariner xx). He is a real sports horse type and very athletic!

 

[Lark]

Diarado is an absolutely stunning horse - unproven though.

 

[southsidestud]

Diarado on the video is lovely,and Cornets Stern wonder whether the semen is of better quality? i liked Castino and a few others too..

 

[tikino]

i have heard thaey have frozen seman for cornet stern and it has frozen well.

 

[DAHH]

I would absolutely use Diarado, if it were not for the 1800 euro price tag. No matter how highly he is rated, or much he sold for, it is still way over the top for a 4 year old.

 

[southsidestud]

[ QUOTE ]
i have heard thaey have frozen seman for cornet stern and it has frozen well.

[/ QUOTE ]o really where did you hear that from? i wanted to use him last year but the reports of poor semen quality put me off

 

[eventrider23]

Totally agree with you DAHH...as stunning as Diarado is, IMO he will have to go a LONG way to proving himself before I would even consider using him at that price!!! Gosh...Cornet's Stern is more proven and has a cheaper stud fee.

The mind boggles though....Le Champ Ask sold for reportedly 1.1million....he also just won a big loose jumping champs....his stud fee is only £600!!! So they cannot say thie high fee for Diarado is partially to recoup the price of him!

 

[Lark]

Yep quite right too expensive; it seems to follow the same trend in some quarters as it does for tb's 1st year set it very high and then work down from there 'Rock of Gibraltar' case in point.
All that aside though he is still one of the most stunning looking horses I have seen in a long time. No wonder he is Paul Schockemöhle's new poster boy

 

[Thefuture]

If a stallion is out of your price range then look else where and stop moaning about it. If you own a stallion you have the right to market him at what you feel is the value the market will stand. If the stallion owner gets it wrong he can only blame himself.

When you are using a young stallion you are gambling with investment - by the time your resulting foal is 4 you may have something really special or then again just another equine.

So stop comparing prices and use the stallion you think will suit your mare and stop trying to put others off the more expensive and unproven stallions!

If we all use the semen from a handful of stallions standing abroad when it comes to selling, either as weanlings or under saddle we will all have the same blood lines and then where will we all be.

God knows why everyone has got on the bandwagon about unproven - just because some have excellent competition records doesnt actually mean they will produce a competition horse form non competition or low mileage mares. Most stallions are dead before they get truely fashionable - maybe more of us need to take the bull by the horns and start using these young stallions

 

[LynneB]

your post actually seems quite contradictory, on the one hand you are saying it is a financial risk using young stallions on the other you are saying to use them. I would say that most of the people who have posted on this thread HAVE used young stallions who are unproven and have time and time again advocated this. So to tell them to take the bull by the horns, is actually telling them something they have already done. I realise you have not been here that long though so may not have seen this.

The point is, why should young stallions who are unproven as sires (not particularly as competition horses) have such a high stud fee first time out. People want to see foals on the ground to see what they are likely to get before forking out such enormous sums.

 

[Thefuture]

All breeding is a gamble! What I dont like is why some people on this forum rant on about stud fees on some "unproven" stallions as being to high. You dont have to buy the services of these stallions, you can use the cheaper more commercial ones - it totally the mare owners choice - but once you have made your decision why are some trying to influence others! So what if some want spend more than others on stud fees - lets face it the difference of the stud fee is a drop in the ocean to what it costs to get a pregnacy to 4yo!

 

[Lark]

Intersting arguements. I suppose the reality is that the stud also runs a gamble at setting a price year 1 to test the water and see who bites. The problem I believe is that in the current climate people are simply too nervous to opt for the 'unproven' sire at substantial price . TheFuture you are quiet right that the stud fee is a fraction of the cost of getting a horse to full maturity, the reality is that a large proportion of breeders do need to sell as foals which inevitably means the stallion selection is commercial commercial commercial all the way. The horse in question is a beaut and I am sure that this forums discussion will not put breeders off if they have the inclination and the money required to take the gamble. At the end of the day (especially in these days) it all about what you personally believe is value for money.

 

[southsidestud]

Diarado was one on my list, what people say does not put me off,i think he is awsome he not only looks the part but has a pedigree to back it up,he looked good under saddle the stud fee does not put me off i just wonder how i would market the foal as the price would have to be considerably high and it would be whether i would be able to sell the foal once on the floor? i think everyone would use Diarado but the price might stop many as not every one has £1800 to spend on stud fee alone without AI costs and so on.

 

[eventrider23]

The Future - no one has said that other people should not use tehse expensive stallion....this is a forum and what is being given is people's personal opinions. PERSONALLY, I would not use this stallion at that price because of the fact that he is not only a youngster but also unproven in terms of comp and breeding.......that does not say I would not use him when he is older and more proven. At the end of the day you say that using young, unproven stallions is a gamblke, as with all horse breeding.....so my point is, yes it is even more of a gamble....so why take an even larger gamble and spend that much money on the privelige. This is not saying ANYTHING bad about the stallion, who I think is awesome....and thus it should not put people off, as like SSS says, if someone does not worry about paying that fee and that is the only thing that might prevent them from using him then it won't stop them.

It would be different if we were saying bad things about his temp, confo, etc etc but I/we haven't...all that has been said is taht his stud fee is high....that will NOT stop the people who can afford to take the chance! I am sure he will end up proving himself to be a worthy sire, however, starting him out at a fee that is only a couple hundred euros more expensive than great stallions such as Champion du Lys, Dobel's Cento, Don Schufro, Sandro Boy, Sir Donnerhall, etc and not to mention he is way more expensive than proven stallion such as Balou and Chacco Blue is just bad IMO....I'm sorry but as nice as he may be....if I had 2k to spend on a stud fee I would rather go for one of them who are proven in comp and progeny, than for a stallion who is proven in nothing other than his talent and beauty.

I am sorry if this upsets you but it is my opinion.....if someone wants to listen to it, that is fine....if they've got the money they won't listen to it as they can afford to chance it.

 

[southsidestud]

i think its good to hear opinons but i wonder when he is proven whether the stud fee will go up even higher??Might be a good investement to have something on the floor by him? or maybe he will not be as good? and his fee will go down? he looks like hes ticking all the right boxes so far. I also think that breeding is a gamble you can match your mares with great sires with average results,this boils down to personal choice, using Unproven young sires(which I like to do)every stallion starts off unproven if you can read the market ahead and choose right it will be a good move if no one used unproven sires how can we see what they are going to produce? I used Stakkatol last year hes a unproven sire only time will tell if i have made the right decision? Or you can use proven sires both do not guarantee sucsess its down to personal choice.

 

[Thefuture]

Has anyone considered that the stud fee is set on Diarado to ensure that the quality of mares which he gets, together with their owners, are as high as possible - lets not fool ourselves here, this stallion will be produced by the best in the world, his first progeny will also get the same VIP treatment - so he competes, or when the first progeny come out it will be no more of an indication whether WE CAN breed a super star from the stallion.

So my thoughts are if you like him TODAY but you are one of those which "cant trust your eye" to use an "unproven" stallion - exacly how many years are you going to wait.

I get excited when I see young stallions marketed whether it is £300 or £1800; If I like the lines, the conformation etc and I have a mare which will go nicely with it - im off to have a look. Its up to us as breeders once we have the resulting offspring to make sure we get the best for it, whether produced or ridden by ourselves or placed with a top prrofessional or sold to the right home.

 

[southsidestud]

I too have to agree its exciting to see new young stallions being marketed regardless of price with myself if i like a stallion,i will use him the price does not put me off,only not being able to get the mare in foal does LOL

 

[Fleur100]

[ QUOTE ]
Has anyone considered that the stud fee is set on Diarado to ensure that the quality of mares which he gets, together with their owners, are as high as possible



[/ QUOTE ]

How naive if you think money = quality. If it was 'quality' mares they would be approving the mares and not just going by people's ability to pay.

You do not know their marketing strategy. The price could be high to restrict the number of mares applying, or to ensure that the foals were going to be in a place where they were more liable to be produced...... etc

 

[nomis]

High stud fees does not omit to the best horse in front of you. Look at Sandro hit, his fee is high but he is gaining less popularlty probably due to his weak hind end and because he has sons that are coming up.

I have to say that I was a little disappointed in the stallions on the PS DVD. There were several dressage stallions that were unable to follow through behind properly without dragging their toes through the surface.

Yes Diarado stood out, as did one of the grey jumping stallions whose name I have forgot.

It will be nice to see Diarado doing well under saddle just like Chacco Blue, but PS also has several stallions that dont see much competition, so there are no guarantees. The fact that Diarado is owned by several people will likely push him into competition more.

However, if I had 1800 euros to spend I would likely go the whole hog and use Diamant instead at 3500 euros.

And as someone else mentioned marketing is the key. You just have to look at the amount of youngsters the owners of Cornet Obelensky purchased at huge prices, then everybody was talking about the price his stock was going for and hence wanted to use him (besides the fact he is a phenomenal stallion). However great marketing and chinese whispers within the horse world always helps.

Edited to say that at the end of the day Studs want the biggest return on their stallions, as money is always the key where stallions are concerned!! Those that are not popular will end up being sold, leased or gelded! The hit of today could be the donkey of tomorrow.

 

[shirleyno2]

Freedom of speech!!
I think he is a bloody expensive UNPROVEN stallion, albeit a very nice one. Does anyone have a close up conformation shot of his front legs?
I'm all for using young stallions but at a young stallion price.