payment on delivery......

[WeeLassie]

I have noticed 2 or 3 dealers in Ireland are advertising horses as 'no money due till horse is delivered'. Has anyone used any of these people? How long would you be able to look at the horse for? I personally would feel very bad if I didnt like the horse and had to send it all the way back to Ireland, but I suppose I'd have to if there were problems.
I dont like the thought of a horse being treated like that at all, just like its a washing machine or some other inanimate object.

 

[FfionWinnie]

I expect you’d be paying the driver and he wouldn’t be wanting to hang around. I’d also expect there would be transport due by you if you refused the horse. I don’t think it’s meant to be you can look at it and not like it for a minor reason and refuse it. Essentially you’ve bought the horse and as long as it is as described in the flesh it’s yours!

 

[Cinnamontoast]

Generally I've seen Irish dealers send over multiple horses which they'll sell regardless, but I wouldn't get to the point of not buying if I was having one sent over. I think you need to do lots of research, possibly fly over to see it or use a reputable agent (there's a couple on here). I guess you could refuse to buy once it's over here, but hopefully you will have done your checks and get what you expected.

 

[Goldenstar]

It's usually a case of driver dumps the horse you pay the driver .
In cases where you can swop the horse if it does not suit you they would usually move the horse on over here not take it back to Ireland .
Quite a lot of people do this with hunters where they know the dealer they try the horse then if it's not what they want it goes on to someone else and they send you another one .

 

[WeeLassie]

I think in the one I was looking at the driver runs a transport company. I think I would have to find out more, but TBH I dont think its a good idea to buy unseen.

 

[mandyroberts]

Surely it means you have seen the horse already but don't pay until it turns up in the same state you saw it? ie no transport injuries or major change in condition

 

[FfionWinnie]

I think in the one I was looking at the driver runs a transport company. I think I would have to find out more, but TBH I dont think its a good idea to buy unseen.

For you maybe, but plenty of people do. I’ve done it successfully 8 times with only one horse being smaller than advertised which, would have been good grounds to refuse it, on the deal you mentioned. As it happened even that horse was a very good horse so it’s not a big deal for me to do again.

 

[WeeLassie]

Surely it means you have seen the horse already but don't pay until it turns up in the same state you saw it? ie no transport injuries or major change in condition

I suppose you could go to Ireland and view it, but surely you would at least put a deposit down 'subject to vetting' when you saw it? No the ads from these dealers definatley makes it sound like they are encouraging buyers to get horses sent to UK and then buy if they like the horse. They are priced 'including delivery to UK, no money due till horse is delivered'. I dont think its at all nice for horses to be treated like commodities.

 

[rifruffian]

FW it would be interesting to hear your routine when buying unseen. Are most of these purchases from private sellers or from dealers? Do you get a vet check before you commit to buy ? Photos, videos, history etc......what do you ask for before these 'unseen' commitments ? Do you make full payment in advance of delivery ?.........etc........

 

[FfionWinnie]

FW it would be interesting to hear your routine when buying unseen. Are most of these purchases from private sellers or from dealers? Do you get a vet check before you commit to buy ? Photos, videos, history etc......what do you ask for before these 'unseen' commitments ? Do you make full payment in advance of delivery ?.........etc........

Well the first thing to ask is, can I afford to lose the money if it’s a maniac that needs shot and add shooting onto the costs of it plus transport.

2 of my 8 were free. 1 was 100, 1 was 200. The rest were significantly more but not going to cripple me permanently either! I vetted only one of those 8 and it is the only horse I’ve ever bought with a long term issue. Of the other 3, 2 were Ffion and Winnie, the latter was a yearling and is now outgrown and sold on. Ffion I bought from 3 pictures one of which was her jumping an invisible jump - I did get lucky with her. I got a local Transporter to collect them for me and asked him to check Ffion was ridable before loading which he did. I also gave him the cash to hand over. The first 4 I mentioned I went and collected myself but I had already committed to buying them assuming they were as described and was unable to try any of them when I got there for various reasons (mostly because they were for my daughter and she was at school/didn’t know!) it was purely a case of it looked like it was supposed to and I thought I could sort out the issues it had or may have.

The two from Ireland for myself were my biggest risks I suppose. More expensive and bought from videos. One dealer one private. The dealer offered an “exchange if I wasn’t happy” and the private one (just last month) I looked up her location then looked up a HHOer friend’s location and saw they were very close! Messaged the HHOer who did not know the seller but knew someone who would. When it came back “seller is 100% genuine but we don’t know the actual horse” I knew I could buy her unseen fairly safely. I already spoke to the seller on the phone and thought she sounded good. I got some fairly rubbish quality videos of her and I believed what the seller was saying to be true so I sent her the money! Otherwise I might have gone and seen her before I bought her.

Every single one of them has been better than described and imo worth more than I paid. Some have moved on, been out grown but none haven’t been what we wanted / needed at the time.

Latest one is just an absolute treasure too and can’t believe my luck!

 

[gallopingby]

It depends how experienced you are! Plenty horses are passed between dealers that's how they make their living, most are honest and reliable, they wouldn't still be in business if they weren't, but not all will interpret things the same way as you. You need to be clear about what you're looking for and preferably view or have video from Ireland. Worth a risk and horse probably will be cheaper than a made one from a private buyer but you may have to put work in. Some will come with vets certificate but remember there are very many more people vetting horses in Ireland than the UK and again interpretation may differ, if you're worried could maybe buy subject to vetting on arrival.

 

[Irish gal]

I simply don't understand the end of your post gallopingby that 'there are many more people vetting horses in Ireland than the UK'.

I'm afraid it's the very same people who vet horses here in Ireland as in the UK, i.e. - fully qualified vets. Nobody else vets them here - just veterinary surgeons. So how you think they're somehow not as good or not to be trusted in the same manner as British vets is a little baffling.

And the reason dealers are allowing payment on arrival is simply to make it as attractive as possible for British buyers by giving them the safety net of having an opt out if they don't like the horse. It's strange that the OP sees this as a bad thing and that it shows horses are being treated 'as commodities'. OP horse dealing is a business, that's why the sector is called the horse industry. If it wasn't for breeders, producers and dealers who operate on a commercial basis there wouldn't be horses for amateur riders to buy.

 

[ester]

I thought it meant that there were more purchasers getting vettings in ireland?

 

[Irish gal]

I thought it meant that there were more purchasers getting vettings in ireland?

Yeah I see what you mean. I'm sorry Gallopingby if that's how you meant it - I simply read it literally but see what Esters saying. Just shows how things are open to interpretation...

 

[WeeLassie]

It's strange that the OP sees this as a bad thing and that it shows horses are being treated 'as commodities'. OP horse dealing is a business, that's why the sector is called the horse industry. If it wasn't for breeders, producers and dealers who operate on a commercial basis there wouldn't be horses for amateur riders to buy.

The reason I think its bad is that its probably a 24-48 hour journey minimum from the dealer in Ireland to the buyer in the UK. And the poor horse,on arrival, if it isnt what the purchaser wants, could be turned down and then have to travel round other drop offs in Uk and then back to Ireland. Too much stress and travelling for any horse,especially if it happens more than once.

 

[Luci07]

It's not for me. However, I am an individual who would be buying 1 horse and that horse would hopefully be with me for a long time. Sometimes, the horse ticks every requirement but you don't click!

 

[ester]

I don't think they go back to ireland though, they will only be offering that option if they have a UK contact who will take it on to sell instead as worth more over here.

 

[FfionWinnie]

The reason I think its bad is that its probably a 24-48 hour journey minimum from the dealer in Ireland to the buyer in the UK. And the poor horse,on arrival, if it isnt what the purchaser wants, could be turned down and then have to travel round other drop offs in Uk and then back to Ireland. Too much stress and travelling for any horse,especially if it happens more than once.

Rubbish it’s more like 5 or 6 hours!

 

[ester]

It does depend, friend's was collected on the saturday and not delivered until the Thursday last month. And no she won't be using that transporter again. When he finally got on a ferry it was about 10 hours from boarding to somerset.

 

[GirlFriday]

I assume that this is more of a way of reassuring people that they aren't sending money overseas and not going to end up with a horse at all than a 'horse comes to you for a viewing' type option.

I do know a RS who used to buy 'off the boat' quite regularly and if the horse didn't work out for them in a couple of weeks I think they mostly stayed in the UK but the dealer would sell them on to a different sort of home.

 

[stormox]

Rubbish it’s more like 5 or 6 hours!

Fionn Winnie Im assuming you mean the boat trip only? The ferry to Pembroke takes 4 1/4 hours from Rosslare, There is a dealer here in Kerry that offers pay on delivery and runs a transport business. They leave here about 11am Tues, get the 9pm ferry, arrive in Pembroke 1am and are around midlands UK around lunchtime Wed. Thats if everything goes smoothly and there are no delays.
I think Wee Lassie was meaning its a lot of time on lorry if the horse is sent straight back. I agree actually, it would be 2 or 3 days travelling.

 

[FfionWinnie]

It does depend, friend's was collected on the saturday and not delivered until the Thursday last month. And no she won't be using that transporter again. When he finally got on a ferry it was about 10 hours from boarding to somerset.

It would be totally illegal to have horses on a lorry for 24-48 hours. Yes they sometimes have to be stabled enroute but it doesn’t mean they are in transit for days.

 

[ester]

I didn't suggest it was in transit for that long? as weelassie mentioned time from dealer to delivery, not time on the lorry.

 

[stormox]

It would be totally illegal to have horses on a lorry for 24-48 hours. Yes they sometimes have to be stabled enroute but it doesn’t mean they are in transit for days.[/QUOTE

Actually Fionn Winnie if you look at Defra guidelines they can travel 24 hours + as long as they have water every 8 hours. So journey over 24 hours, unload for buyer to check, vet whatever.... and a separate journey back ......
With overnight stabling at transporters premises the journey can take a lot longer though the ones I am talking about, and I know well, go straight through. 2 drivers so no stops.

 

[Irish gal]

The reason I think its bad is that its probably a 24-48 hour journey minimum from the dealer in Ireland to the buyer in the UK. And the poor horse,on arrival, if it isnt what the purchaser wants, could be turned down and then have to travel round other drop offs in Uk and then back to Ireland. Too much stress and travelling for any horse,especially if it happens more than once.

But what's the difference between the journey you describe and the horse for instance being sent from Ireland to the continent or Sweden. We sent a horse to Sweden, it took fiour days with two overnights. The horse got off the transporter strolled over to a grass verge and threw himself down for a roll. He was fine, not in the least stressed, it didn't do him any harm.

Hundreds of horses every week are sent from Ireland on those kind of trips, they're not stressed and it doesn't do them harm otherwise buyers wouldn't do it.

Normally it won't take two days to the UK. Horses are picked up in the afternoon, they're on the ferry that night, arrive after midnight and drive to arrive at their destination the following morning or afternoon - latest. Scotland takes longer alright but that's how it is for the rest of the country. Sometimes sailings are cancelled because of bad weather and then they are stabled at the transporters base until there is a sailing, which can draw out the trip. All the big companies will look after them well, or they wouldn't be in business for long.

 

[cobgoblin]

I wouldn't be worried if the horse turned up in a super duper air conditioned lorry....would be awful if it was an old bone-shaker though.