pedal bone rotation?

[riding_high]

Hi i was wondering/hoping you could help with this question.
If a pony has pedal bone rotation would it take 2yrs to have shown up or is it quicker than that?
X-rays show it's a rotation but the pony has only just (in last few weeks) shown lameness hence the x-rays.

Could it have been festering for 2yrs and the hard ground has set it off?

 

[AmyMay]

Yes, it could be a gradual thing - but equally it could be very sudden (in the instance of laminitis for example).

 

[sarahann1]

As Amymay says it could be gradual, but you'd get lots of prior warning that something was going wrong before you got to a full on rotation. Horse would likely start out a bit pottery and go from there.

In a severe case of lami, it can happen in a matter of hours.

 

[amandap]

Laminitis can cause sudden rotation and sinking or, most commonly by far, it is a gradual process due to lamina being compromised by diet, metabolic etc. issues.
The cause is laminitis to some degree or other.

 

[amandap]

Lameness is not necessarily related to rotation, horses can have rotation and be apparently sound especially if the sole is not too thin or the rotation not severe. Pete Ramey reckons horses can run around for years with some degree of rotation or lamina inflammation//weakness before the crash.
This is why not ignoring or dismissing signs is so important.

 

[Wagtail]

My poor mare suffered from chronic laminitis for over two years due to cushings disease and equine metabolic syndrome. She was often very lame, though never so bad as she exhibited the typical laminitic stance. She was xrayed on four occasions during those two years and never had even the slightest bit of rotation. Yet an old field mate of hers came down with laminitis and had a massive rotation within only a few hours. She had to be PTS. I now believe that the damage to both mares was done in the three years they shared a field (eight years before their deaths). My friend and I kept them on a mate's farm and her boyfriend used to fertilize the fields every spring with fertilizer meant for cow pasture.

 

[amandap]

Here's a very brief article about rotation. Doing your own research is the way to understand the process and causes also chat to your vet.
http://www.hoofrehab.com/HoofCapsuleRotation.html

 

[ester]

My poor mare suffered from chronic laminitis for over two years due to cushings disease and equine metabolic syndrome. She was often very lame, though never so bad as she exhibited the typical laminitic stance. She was xrayed on four occasions during those two years and never had even the slightest bit of rotation. Yet an old field mate of hers came down with laminitis and had a massive rotation within only a few hours. She had to be PTS. I now believe that the damage to both mares was done in the three years they shared a field (eight years before their deaths). My friend and I kept them on a mate's farm and her boyfriend used to fertilize the fields every spring with fertilizer meant for cow pasture.

I'm can't understand how that field could be to blame wagtail given that rotation is linked to the strength of the current laminar connection, unless they had rotation when in that field that then never truely corrected itself?

 

[riding_high]

Thanks for the replies. The pony has shown no signs of lameness until recently. It's also a hind leg which confused me as well as it's normally fore legs (although not rare for hinds to be affected).

 

[happyclappy]

my farrier advised me that rotation can occur without lami, as in the case of my mare.

 

[amandap]

How does it happen without damage/weakening of the lamina, which hold the hoof to the bone, being a factor? Did your farrier explain?

 

[AmyMay]

my farrier advised me that rotation can occur without lami, as in the case of my mare.

Absolutely - of course it can.

 

[Wagtail]

I'm can't understand how that field could be to blame wagtail given that rotation is linked to the strength of the current laminar connection, unless they had rotation when in that field that then never truely corrected itself?

No, not the rotation; my mare never had rotation. I was referring to the laminitis. I believe early over exposure to sugars sets horses up for laminitis in the future. It works in a similar way to allergies I think.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

My mare suffered laminitis and got rotation of the pedal bone, she did get reversal of the bone moving but then the bone started dying so there was no hope.


I would say yes rotation can happen in the event of mild laminitis which goes un noticed and only when it rotates a fair distance does it show up in lameness

 

[ester]

No, not the rotation; my mare never had rotation. I was referring to the laminitis. I believe early over exposure to sugars sets horses up for laminitis in the future. It works in a similar way to allergies I think.

Ah yes, sorry I understand now - thanks!

What is rotation without laminitis then? how can it rotate with a strong lamellar connection?

 

[amandap]

Ah yes, sorry I understand now - thanks!

What is rotation without laminitis then? how can it rotate with a strong lamellar connection?

It can't in my understanding. Apparently the hoof wall will snap before a healthy strong lamina bond breaks, when tested on cadava hooves. One hoof can be more affected or more unbalanced for eg. so one can be rotated or two or all four. Sinking is also an effect of laminitis.

 

[Illusion100]

The pedal bone cannot rotate without the precursor of damaged laminae.

As to whether the rotation in this case has been chronic or acute would be impossible to determine without numerous previous x-rays taken over the last couple of years.

 

[Wagtail]

Ah yes, sorry I understand now - thanks!

What is rotation without laminitis then? how can it rotate with a strong lamellar connection?

Positive rotation is almost always the result of laminitis. Negative rotation can also occur especially in low heeled tbs caused by poor shoeing or foot balance.

 

[ester]

ah yes, frank had negative rotation, I meant positive as I thought that was the only sort under discussion.

 

[Floofball]

My first horse had, what I was told at the time many years ago, a dropped sole on just one front foot. Pedal bone had rotated slowly over a few years, I was told at the time it was conformation fault, arthritic damage that showed on xrays suggested changes had been goin on for a few years - she was 8 when diagnosed and retired from all work at 13. I think the outcome may have been different nowadays with remedial shoeing/barefoot options and xrays being taken when vets first called out (2 years before diagnosis - but to be fair everytime they came out she would be sound but a tiny bit sore with hoof testers!?!)

 

[Tiddlypom]

My first horse had, what I was told at the time many years ago, a dropped sole on just one front foot.

Same here. The vet simply called it 'dropped sole' and told me to give her bute (this was the 70's, and I was a teenager). No xrays or anything in those days. She had gone lame, aged 17, after a days hunting, in which I had cantered her on the road , so presumably it was a concussive laminitis. The vet never mentioned laminitis or pedal bones at all, and it was only recently that I realised that this was what it must have been.

I carried on taking her to PC rallies and competitions, as she was sound on bute. It makes me cringe to think of it now, but I was following vets orders.

She had a comfortable retirement for several years before she had to be pts.