Pedigree dogs exposed

Dear lord what a sad situation and what monstrosities:eek:
That vet hit it on the head what people see as "cute" is hideous and cruel, baggy bloodu wrinkles and eyes so weighted with wrinkles u cannot even see the feckers.:mad:
 
I watched it, it's a shame that it took such exposure to get the KC to actually do anything - although personally I don't think they are doing enough with the severely deformed breeds like bull dogs, pugs etc, and all the other squash faced/wrinkled/stumpy legged/long backed etc dogs. They have known about the problems for decades but have swept it under the rug or ignored it totally - so maybe it will make them get off their arses!!!! I worked in a vets for years and the vets used to rub their hands with glee when they saw a pedigree puppy come through the door as they are walking vet bills - I certainly would never bother with a pedigree dog again - the local pound is the best place!! Although I wish they'd do the same for inbred horse breeds!!!
 
Don't suppose it will mention that Dr Willis and the - Germanic - GSD fraternity in the UK pioneered the hip and elbow scoring systems, helped minimise epilepsy and want mandatory health tests with acceptable results for parents before pups are registered, as we have been asking for, for decades.

This is denied to us by the KC, who will register litters from dysplastics, brother/sister matings etc but they lecture us on health.

The GSD BoB this year is Breed Survey Class 1, Schutzhund III (which is a hard, hard, hard qualification to train for - obedience, tracking, protection work) and has a-stamp hips. These are all breeding requirements under the German system. The breeder has done all of this, the testing, the titling, off her own bat.

All the KC requires the dog to do is to look pretty.

The KC is nothing but a paying members club and many people now are choosing to take their money and their dogs elsewhere to other organisations that put health and soundness first.

Are you guys bored of me yet?
It makes me really bloody sad that there are a tonne of GSD owners on this forum and as always it is either Murphy'sMinder or myself taking a stand :(
 
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I watched this programme shortly after it aired, and felt sick to the stomach, particularly the scene with the KC Spaniel writhing on the floor in agony.

I don't honestly know whether pedigrees are more or less healthy than crossbreeds. I know an awful lot of Shepherd/Pit mixes with skin allergies and hip problems, while Border Collies and Greyhounds, for example, seem to me to be two long-lived, relatively issue-less pedigree types. Perhaps it's more a case of working-bred having the advantage.

I own two snub-nosed breeds. My Boston is seven and lost an eye when she was five. The vet said her lack of nose would not have saved the eye because she whacked the side of her head and suffered a head trauma, and the eye itself was undamaged. But believe me, the thought has crossed my mind on more than one occasion. Other than that, no joint problems, allergies, heart issues, and she is as spry as a puppy; both great-grandparents were 15 when they passed. The pug is somewhat of a rescue, and he is 99% healthy, too, save for a mild skin allergy. Even so, I would have no issue whatsoever if both breeds "grew" longer snouts.

This is a nineteenth century painting I photographed inside Rosenberg Castle, Denmark. Yep, that's a ye olde pug.

bi8dg3.jpg


And this is a Boston terrier from 1910.

fvy0t2.jpg
 
Oh and I was talking today to people who have a neighbour who breeds dachshunds. These animals are kept in small enclosures and are not allowed to hoon around off lead 'in case they hurt their backs'.

I could make a sweeping statement against all dachshunds the same way as people think it is OK to make sweeping statements against all GSDs. But I won't. Because I don't know enough about what I am talking about (ie that breed) and chances are I would be wrong.
 
CaveCanem said:
Oh and I was talking today to people who have a neighbour who breeds dachshunds. These animals are kept in small enclosures and are not allowed to hoon around off lead 'in case they hurt their backs'.

I could make a sweeping statement against all dachshunds the same way as people think it is OK to make sweeping statements against all GSDs. But I won't. Because I don't know enough about what I am talking about (ie that breed) and chances are I would be wrong.
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I thought about a dachshund last year, when our shelter got in a litter of rescue pups, but in the end, the foster mother dissuaded me with talk of carrying up stairs, being careful out hiking etc. On the other side of the coin, my neighbour has two long-haired doxies bred to the German teckel standard and the 14-year-old has the energy and looks of a pup.
 
See, the Germans just do everything better :D

Going to add on, because I can't edit my other post - Lagos, you know the dog panned by the 'expert' Clare Balding, who also likes to slag off the teeth of winning jockeys and should know a thing or two about selective breeding and overbreeding, ho hum, has his AD. The Ausdauerprüfung.
That's a 20k run off a bike, with one vet stop and an obedience test at the end.
Some cripple with wonky legs, eh?

I hope to do it with at least one of my dogs in the next year.
 
It always baffles me that the breed standards and descriptions have not changed yet in the last 50 yrs or so some breeds are so far from what they were and so deformed it amazes me they are the same breed! Like the pics prosefullstop has posted - they are different animals!
I can never understand why someone would think animals with such severe deformities are beautiful??!! If you saw the same thing in another animal/human you would have a totally different reaction - and think 'OMG poor thing' yet it is acceptable in a dog/cat/horse:
WhiteTiger.jpg

By the way the reason this white tiger is deformed is because the white gene only came from one bengal tiger that was mated to his daughter to produce white babies - all white tigers are descended from those animals repeatedly mated together to produce crowd pleasers at zoos - this is what you don't see - they also have mental health issues - where does it sound familiar!!!??
 
I can't speak for other breeds but the GSD only came about 100 years ago. The breed was a work in progress for it's creator during his lifetime (see my sig :p) and to an extent, still is. At the Sieger every year, the top male is selected for what he can bring to the breed in terms of correcting faults which crop up (this year's faults du jour are hocks, light eyes, upper size limits) and enhancing good points.

That is where the difference lies I think, in Germany the show/working scene is a breed selection tool, here it is for picking up rosetters.
(Of course no offence to those who show and of course the two issues are not mutually exclusive, I still spend a lot of weekends ringside!)

Yes there is a split between the hardcore working and pure show types, but the working types are not strictly correct either.
This will hopefully be rectified with the advent of the Universal Sieger in Austria in 2011 - which will be quite a spectacle.
 
Sorry CC, wasn't abandoning you to a lone protest. I missed Clare Baldings bit about Lagos but have heard about it, silly cow, she was no doubt primed to say what she did by the KC. It was a slightly more balanced programme tonight but agree with Cayla, that "hobby breeder" was a back street breeder pure and simple. Glad the failures of the BAS got mentioned, and the fact that some of the more selective breeders won't subscribe to it. I got the impression though that they felt it was too cheap and putting the prices up would improve the standard of breeders registered, when what they actually need to do is improve the health test requirements . How bizarre is it that an ABS can breed from a dog with a high hip score, as long as it has a hip score !:mad:
 
Was Lagos the GSD in the group ring at Crufts? If so tell me, I have been defending the honour of GSDs on another forum (what have you DONE to me????)
 
Spudlet said:
Was Lagos the GSD in the group ring at Crufts? If so tell me, I have been defending the honour of GSDs on another forum (what have you DONE to me????)
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Yes, that is the dog with SchIII and his AD (20k bike run!) so do pass it on. I hope Carol Keen sues the BBC for slander of her dog and her kennel.
Copy and paste what I have written w/t if you want, because it is all true!

Again, open invitation to anyone who wants to see slopey-backed crippled showlines working their backsides, and collapsing hocks, off on the Schutzhund field is being extended to anyone who wants to see the truth, with their own eyes.
 
Spudlet said:
Was Lagos the GSD in the group ring at Crufts? If so tell me, I have been defending the honour of GSDs on another forum (what have you DONE to me????)
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Yep thats the one. Well done Spudlet, you can become an honorary member of the GSD mafia ;)

I obviously didn't see or hear the offending bit on tv and have decided against watching it on i player as would just infuriate me.
 
Mind you I'm not sure how much good it will do, I think minds have been made up on there :( But I will try :)
 
I can't believe that picture of a Peke having to sit on an icepack - in March in the UK FFS. It's a flipping disgrace - it makes me so angry :mad:

Gundogs (talking about labs and spangles, which are the ones I tend to know more about and I'm still no expert) have moved so far away from what they were meant to do - the difference between a show lab and a working lab is massive now (quite literally based on Crufts last night!) - how on earth can they say that form follows function for these breeds now? I honestly don't think I would buy another pedigree puppy - if I ever buy another pup I will look for one from a working background purely for the sake of their health, and just make sure I channel its stronger instincts.

Grrrrrrrrrr :mad:
 
Spudlet said:
I honestly don't think I would buy another pedigree puppy - if I ever buy another pup I will look for one from a working background purely for the sake of their health, and just make sure I channel its stronger instincts.

Grrrrrrrrrr :mad:
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But then the problem is that the Working community (certainly in the case of Spaniels, not so much Labs) breed so strongly for working instinct and often don't give a toss if they are breeding healthy animals. Hip and Elbow scoring can be a rarity in working bred Spaniels, in fact I'd say elbow scoring never happens.
 
Personally speaking the hip and elbow scoring is perhaps even more prevalent in the straight working side - the amount of physical work they have to do is immense and you cannot progress to the highest level without acceptable scores, they just won't let you compete.
You may see straighter backs but some conformation isn't great either according to the universal breed standard (set out by the WUSV), particularly front assembly.

This is a very influential and popular working bred GSD, an absolute powerhouse - imagine him black and gold - do you see much of a difference between him and a showline GSD?

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/444610.html
 
Spudlet,many working lines are still "pedigree", so you would still have a pedigree puppy again. And as kirstyhen (sorry can't get used to that name) says some working people ignore health checks in favour of working instinct. What everyone needs to do is research the lines they are looking at, in these days of google it shouldn't be so difficult.
 
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