Pedigrees?

vicijp

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So just how important are they? Partly in reference to the 'grading/license' thread.
Now, to me they are extremely important, but only if the conformation adds up.
If I was buying a pleasure horse, I honestly dont think they would matter one jot.
Surely if you have a horse with sound conformation, trainable attitude and natural athleticism the rest can be made?
I know top horses in every walk of life have that extra special something, but I think it is unrealistic to suggest that daddy will pass it on to all, if any, of his offspring.
That is something which I think can be found anywhere.
 

Navalgem

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Well IMHO I think two animals with a good pedigree and more likely to pass on genes required to result in a talented, well proportioned offspring than two awful animals with no recognisable breeding, it's simply a law of averages but you also get the bad too and animals which can be hyper sensitive to anything, I know one animal which couldn't be bathed, clipped and had to be brushed with pig hair brushes it's skin was so sensitive, let alone those with crap temprements. I think a good pedigree is important but after so much selective breeding it is nice to throw in a nice animal which has not been exclusively line/selectively bred. After all warmbloods are the result of TB's crossed with heavy horses, so technically a shire x TB is a warmblood. It really bugs me how people thing warmbloods are the creme de la creme and everything else is inferiour when thats exactly where the breeds origins lie.

I attended the AES grading at Sollihull and from what they told me (I asked) I gather that a full pedigree is important but if some generations are missing, as long as the youngster is exceptionally talented and has good conformation it will still grade.
 

Bounty

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To me, the horse has to do the job first and foremost no matter what it's breeding is. My unknown Irish TB beats my Bahamian Bounty mare hands down on everything.
The majority of my horses have been of unknown breeding, but it's not held us back, nor have we been looked down on for it. But then again my horses, although I compete, are more pleasure horses than anything else.
I think breeding is more important when you are looking to sell as there are so many people out there who think that being sired by *insert well known name* will mean that the horse in question will be a worldbeater.
But I do agree that if breeding lines were better documented then we'd all have a better chance of breeding better lines, in theory anyway!
 

dieseldog

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To mean it means absolutly nothing. Althought there is one stud that I avoid at all costs.

However I am never going to by a youngster, deal in horses or breed a foal so it really doesn't matter how it is bred.

I don't care where it originated I've owned Irish, Dutch, Belgian, French, English and even Swedish horses and I bought them all for what they are like to ride not how they were bred or where they came from
 

Faithkat

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I'm a real fanatic where pedigrees are concerned, be it horses, dogs, cats, whatever. I think there's nothing more fascinating that tracing a pedigree particularly if photos can be tracked down too. It's quite often interesting to find an animal way back in a pedigree that has obviously thrown a "look" that can still be seen in the current generation. I can be really boring about pedigrees (!) and for Christmas one year, a friend gave me a book entitled simply "Horse Racing" and it is just list after list of TB lines with some text explanations - riveting stuff!! I'm afraid I love to know where my animals have come from.
 

Tia

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To me over here, pedigrees are all important! I don't consider a horse which does not have a top notch pedigree on both the dam's side and the sire's side, and I am very particular about which bloodlines I want....that's why I have so much trouble finding the ones I want.
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Over here and in my line of work, pedigrees are absolutely necessary to be able to produce and sell on my stock. Unregistered horses have a top price which is generally quite a bit less than I buy my registered youngsters for. The pedigrees I go for are the top of the line ones, this ensures that I get top dollar for the horses when the time comes to sell them on. It would not be worth my while to buy unregistered horses, keep them for a year or so, as by the time I came to sell them, regardless of the work I may put into them, they would still be worth the same as I paid for them, so it does not make financial sense to buy unregistereds.
 

dieseldog

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Exactly if you deal in horses or want to breed pedigree does matter, but if you are just after something to ride then no it doesn't.

I do like finding out hoe my horse is bred though, what its siblings have been up to etc.
 

_jetset_

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In a way I agree with you.

I once heard a stud owner (I will not name them) saying that they did not think a mare of unknown breeding should be used to breed from. Well, Hannah is of unknown breeding, all I know is that she is IDxTB and was imported from Ireland as a 3 year old having weaned a foal. She has produced a lovely looking foal that is straight so far and has a lovely movement too.
 

dieseldog

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The horse below has complelty unkown breeding, however when it was graded by the SHB it was the top mare at its grading. The top stud that bought her thought obviously didn't care too much about pedigrees, in fact they told me it was my duty to british breeding to sell it to them...
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_jetset_

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That's really interesting.

Even though I chose a stallion of known breeding, I would breed from my mare again with a different stallion because she has produced such a cracking strong foal (but then again, I am biased
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Bounty

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DD she went to the Barr's didn't she?
My mare is with them at the moment (3/4 TB, 1/4 QH and that's all I know!) and they REALLY liked her, and were of the opinion that she'd fly through a grading. I won't be grading her as she's 18 and this will be her only foal (for me to keep), and as I've already stated, I'm not fussed about the paperwork.
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dieseldog

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She did, did you know her? Is she still alive? I know the first year she had twins and they pinched one and she lost them both.
 

Bounty

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No, sorry - i just had a feeling that you'd mentioned before. If you give me her name and any other info I'd be happy to ask for you? I should be picking Tills up in the next few days so can drop it into conversation then.
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dieseldog

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She was called Blackdown Shadow or Holly, she must be dead by now though. I think she had one foal, if you can found out what it was called that would be great and if she is still around.

I phoned them up as I read in H&H that they looked for mares with performance records and I needed to sell her, they came and took her.
 

mat

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See I like certain lines too, and have not got any horses that have unknown bloodlines..

I think if you stick to well known mares and stallions that are graded, you increase your chances of breeding a foal that will go on and do well, not only because it will be more talented, but also because it will be more likely to have correct conformation, which will make its work easier and it will be less likely to sustain an injury. (mares and stallions wont grade if they have any major conf flaws)
(Remember that if a horse does well competing it does not mean it will breed good stock!)
There is obviously the odd freak horse that will do really well from un known lines, and if they grade, having produced good stock then it is a great chance to inject some fresh blood into the breeding program.
But I would much rather play it safe and use established lines, that will 9 times out of 10 give you good quality offspring!
 

Thistle

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The best horse/pony I have ever known or met (and in 40 odd years I've met a few), is my daughters event pony. She is the result of an accident where a mare was found to be mysteriously in foal. The owners had the mare for years and couldn't believe it. The only stallion in the vicinity was a sec D so it is guessed that he is the sire. Mum is a Newfie.

This mare stands 148cm, and has the best temperament, she is also hugely talented and is now eventing at BE Novice, she is also eligible for FEI ponies. She can pop 130cm for fun and will also hunt all day. She is calm and sensible and a true family friend. We bought her 4 years ago (had previously been a boys hunting pony) to do PC 2'6" stuff and she has just kept on answering our questions. We have also shown her WHP where she has been well placed.

Now even though we do not know her breeding and she is the result of an accident not a carefully planned mating, surely such qualities should be passed on and we should breed from her at some point. OK it may not happen but if we don't breed her then her quality and uniqueness abilities and fantastic temperament wil be lost forever.

My plan is that in a year of two (she is 13) we will ease back on her competing and I will find a nice compact TB sire to add some quality.

Who knows we could breed a badminton winner with her toughness and brain with some added TB quality.

If you don't experiment then you will never progress.

Otherwise we would all still be driving around in little black Fords.
 

magic104

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The issue seems to be that either the breeder does not register the offspring or the ppr wrk goes missing. Hopefully with a horse having to have passport this wont happen as much in the future. The reason for knowing how a horse is bred is so you can track the performance record of that breeding. How many good ponies/horses have you seen out competiting and their breeding is unknown. Yet if you knew the breeding then you would have an idea what works and stallions/mares would get more acknowledgement. The issue with breeding from the unknown is not being able to gauge what the outcome will be. For instance you may have a mare that is 16hh but her offspring may only make 15hh even though the stallion was bigger. If you were able to trace the background, it could be that the mare had pony breeding a bit further back. It is a big enough lottery anyway even breeding from the same mare & stallion can result in huge differences between siblings.
 
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