Pelham bit

[maggie62]

My loaned pony has a Pelham (vulcanite) bit/curb chain with a single set of reins. Will the curb chain have much effect if no curb rein present ?
Obviously I am not knowledgeable about this but just wondered.....not that I would be able to use double reins !!.......enough with single set. May add she is a very mature lady (like mois) but has her head very low in canter....eek !

 

[ycbm]

You have roundings on, joining the two rings to one rein, so yes there is a mild action from the curb unless it's on loose. I wouldn't worry about it if she likes it.

Enjoy your late learner loaning!




PS have to say I don't 'get' the mixed action of jointed pelhams, but that's lesson 226, don't worry about it

 

[SpringArising]

There's only a single set of reins, but there are roundings on your bit, so the curb will be put to some use. It just won't be as effective as if you were using two separate reins on each bit ring. As a side note, a pelham might not be the best bit if she pulls on the forehand with low head carriage.

 

[tallyho!]

The low head carriage is a result of the joint. I will never understand why there are jointed Pelhams it makes no sense - negates any snaffle action and when the curb is applied, like it is here permanently, the joint presses into the tongue. Try it for yourself between your hands while someone pulls the curb. A straight bar with a port is a "proper" Pelham.

I suppose it could a be a good brake for a head up and bog off type but not for normal riding.

 

[maggie62]

You have roundings on, joining the two rings to one rein, so yes there is a mild action from the curb unless it's on loose. I wouldn't worry about it if she likes it.

Enjoy your late learner loaning!




PS have to say I don't 'get' the mixed action of jointed pelhams, but that's lesson 226, don't worry about it

Thanks ycbm.......guess I have to worry more about the other 225 lessons !

 

[ycbm]

Thanks ycbm.......guess I have to worry more about the other 225 lessons !

Oh I think you're on at least lesson 43 already I love reading about you and your sister's late starter exploits. You'll learn so much more now you're a loaner.

 

[maggie62]

There's only a single set of reins, but there are roundings on your bit, so the curb will be put to some use. It just won't be as effective as if you were using two separate reins on each bit ring. As a side note, a pelham might not be the best bit if she pulls on the forehand with low head carriage.

Thanks SpringArising.....she is sometimes lazy.........apart from in canter......then she tanks !

 

[maggie62]

The low head carriage is a result of the joint. I will never understand why there are jointed Pelhams it makes no sense - negates any snaffle action and when the curb is applied, like it is here permanently, the joint presses into the tongue. Try it for yourself between your hands while someone pulls the curb. A straight bar with a port is a "proper" Pelham.

I suppose it could a be a good brake for a head up and bog off type but not for normal riding.

tallyho........she is a head down and bog off.....as I found at weekend. Although I did find out she had done 'Flapping racing' in her youth......yikes Grand National here I come.

 

[SpringArising]

Thanks SpringArising.....she is sometimes lazy.........apart from in canter......then she tanks !

Do you have the option to change her bit? If so you could try something like a loose ring French link - you might find that as the bit isn't fixed (like an Eggbutt or D-ring snaffle is) she might not be able to grab such a hold.

 

[tallyho!]

tallyho........she is a head down and bog off.....as I found at weekend. Although I did find out she had done 'Flapping racing' in her youth......yikes Grand National here I come.

Mines a head down and bog off too... if you want to continue using that bit I would get two reins so you can at least use the "snaffle" action without the curb pulling the snaffle down, to lift her when she does .

 

[maggie62]

Do you have the option to change her bit? If so you could try something like a loose ring French link - you might find that as the bit isn't fixed (like an Eggbutt or D-ring snaffle is) she might not be able to grab such a hold.

I would need to have a chat with her owner.......She is also a bit head shy too.......I am just learning the ropes so to speak, thought I would just try putting her bridle on today, have to not look her in the eye, me being short as well !!

 

[maggie62]

Mines a head down and bog off too... if you want to continue using that bit I would get two reins so you can at least use the "snaffle" action without the curb pulling the snaffle down, to lift her when she does .

Errr.....I don't think I could handle two reins, I may just have to gain more control !

 

[tallyho!]

Errr.....I don't think I could handle two reins, I may just have to gain more control !

Yes you can it's easy The curb goes under your third, and the snaffle goes under your pinky. Practice using them separately first at home and it becomes like second nature. (There are other ways but I use this one)

I found it strange going back to one rein when training the youngster.

If not, I would just change the type to straight bar with port, you won't get the tongue pressure then.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

I'm going to go against others here and say you shouldn't be asking to change the tack. The riding school won't be expecting you to want to change the tack and when they ask why, what are you going to say? That you've been talking to a bunch of strangers on a horse forum, because you had a little difficulty with the horse going a bit faster than you'd like on your first hack? It doesn't create the right impression IMO.

I'm not disagreeing that a bit change/change to using two reins etc isn't something good in theory, just that wanting to change the tack on a share horse, especially after just a handful of rides and when you're fresh out of a riding school, isn't the done thing. Instead, I'd use it as a lesson in learning to manage with what you have. The horse probably has had this tack a long time and whilst it may not be ideal, other people have ridden her and manage (or the riding school wouldn't have loaned her out), so maybe try to find out how others cope with the tanking off. It doesn't sound as if the horse was completely out of control or the situation was unsafe, just that you had a minor disagreement over exactly what speed to go at for a while. I'm guessing you pulled up ok eventually? She's probably going to be more forward going or challenging to ride in some way, when out on a hack by herself anyway. A lot of riding school horses know full well when they're in a riding school environment and switch off to some extent, becomming a bit lazy and just following the horse in front.

To the person who keeps referring to D-rings, I know what you mean but they're called roundings and I wouldn't like novices reading this thread to get confused. D-rings are a type of ring found on a snaffle bit :smile3:

 

[SpringArising]

To the person who keeps referring to D-rings, I know what you mean but they're called roundings and I wouldn't like novices reading this thread to get confused. D-rings are a type of ring found on a snaffle bit :smile3:

Think you're referring to my post below, but you've got your wires crossed with what I meant.

I know what roundings are (see my first post). My post below isn't referring to roundings, I'm referring to a D-ring snaffle.

Do you have the option to change her bit? If so you could try something like a loose ring French link - you might find that as the bit isn't fixed (like an Eggbutt or D-ring snaffle is) she might not be able to grab such a hold.

 

[Leo Walker]

I'm going to go against others here and say you shouldn't be asking to change the tack. The riding school won't be expecting you to want to change the tack and when they ask why, what are you going to say? That you've been talking to a bunch of strangers on a horse forum, because you had a little difficulty with the horse going a bit faster than you'd like on your first hack? It doesn't create the right impression IMO.

I'm not disagreeing that a bit change/change to using two reins etc isn't something good in theory, just that wanting to change the tack on a share horse, especially after just a handful of rides and when you're fresh out of a riding school, isn't the done thing. Instead, I'd use it as a lesson in learning to manage with what you have. The horse probably has had this tack a long time and whilst it may not be ideal, other people have ridden her and manage (or the riding school wouldn't have loaned her out), so maybe try to find out how others cope with the tanking off. It doesn't sound as if the horse was completely out of control or the situation was unsafe, just that you had a minor disagreement over exactly what speed to go at for a while. I'm guessing you pulled up ok eventually? She's probably going to be more forward going or challenging to ride in some way, when out on a hack by herself anyway. A lot of riding school horses know full well when they're in a riding school environment and switch off to some extent, becomming a bit lazy and just following the horse in front.

This! Please dont go asking to change the bit on an older, established riding school share after 2 rides! I'd leave the 2 rein thing for now as well. Lots of work on getting balanced in canter and getting a secure independent seat first

 

[maggie62]

I'm going to go against others here and say you shouldn't be asking to change the tack. The riding school won't be expecting you to want to change the tack and when they ask why, what are you going to say? That you've been talking to a bunch of strangers on a horse forum, because you had a little difficulty with the horse going a bit faster than you'd like on your first hack? It doesn't create the right impression IMO.

I'm not disagreeing that a bit change/change to using two reins etc isn't something good in theory, just that wanting to change the tack on a share horse, especially after just a handful of rides and when you're fresh out of a riding school, isn't the done thing. Instead, I'd use it as a lesson in learning to manage with what you have. The horse probably has had this tack a long time and whilst it may not be ideal, other people have ridden her and manage (or the riding school wouldn't have loaned her out), so maybe try to find out how others cope with the tanking off. It doesn't sound as if the horse was completely out of control or the situation was unsafe, just that you had a minor disagreement over exactly what speed to go at for a while. I'm guessing you pulled up ok eventually? She's probably going to be more forward going or challenging to ride in some way, when out on a hack by herself anyway. A lot of riding school horses know full well when they're in a riding school environment and switch off to some extent, becomming a bit lazy and just following the horse in front.

To the person who keeps referring to D-rings, I know what you mean but they're called roundings and I wouldn't like novices reading this thread to get confused. D-rings are a type of ring found on a snaffle bit :smile3:

I was just asking for advice regarding the Pelham. I feel like I am being told off as if I were a child.....I am 63yrs old I have been riding this pony for at least 5 months and have no intention of trying to change anything just for the sake of it. This pony has a very very low key workload, mostly just once a week and mainly ridden by me . I also go on weekly hacks elsewhere. She is really in semi-retirement and I loaned her to give me some practical horse care experience I have spoken with the owner today and yes this pony came with the Pelham so obviously a fairly long time ago.

Won't bother asking anything else......just get on with it myself.

 

[maggie62]

This! Please dont go asking to change the bit on an older, established riding school share after 2 rides! I'd leave the 2 rein thing for now as well. Lots of work on getting balanced in canter and getting a secure independent seat first

Geez..talk about chinese whispers.........I had started asking for advice.........now after 2 rides ( been riding her over 5mths)......

 

[ycbm]

Won't bother asking anything else......just get on with it myself.

Stick with us Maggie, plenty of people willing to help. You just have to ignore the rest. I asked for names of Irish horse dealers two weeks ago and ended up being lectured about not using Facebook and then slated for not taking advice I'd never asked for


If you do get the chance, I would ask to try her in a straight bar Pelham and see what difference it makes, if any.

 

[shirl62]

well what can I say...My sister is in floods of tears now thinking that SHE is the one that wants to change the Pelham...She is very fragile and over sensitive at the moment after the death of her beloved son ...People can be so tactless and thoughtless..On the other hand there are some lovely people on here who give support and these are the ones who give our hearts a boost.

If you don't have anything nice to say ... ignore this thread....and go and browbeat someone else.

Shirl

 

[Leo Walker]

Geez..talk about chinese whispers.........I had started asking for advice.........now after 2 rides ( been riding her over 5mths)......

Sorry, what?

well what can I say...My sister is in floods of tears now thinking that SHE is the one that wants to change the Pelham...She is very fragile and over sensitive at the moment after the death of her beloved son ...People can be so tactless and thoughtless..On the other hand there are some lovely people on here who give support and these are the ones who give our hearts a boost.

If you don't have anything nice to say ... ignore this thread....and go and browbeat someone else.

Shirl

Are you joking? Where has anyone been tactless and thoughtless?? The advice given on this thread was to change the bit, change the reins etc, all good advice if she owned the pony. S&S posted giving different advice based on the fact its a share in a riding school pony and I agreed with her. Who is being browbeaten?

 

[tallyho!]

I was just asking for advice regarding the Pelham. I feel like I am being told off as if I were a child.....I am 63yrs old I have been riding this pony for at least 5 months and have no intention of trying to change anything just for the sake of it. This pony has a very very low key workload, mostly just once a week and mainly ridden by me . I also go on weekly hacks elsewhere. She is really in semi-retirement and I loaned her to give me some practical horse care experience I have spoken with the owner today and yes this pony came with the Pelham so obviously a fairly long time ago.

Won't bother asking anything else......just get on with it myself.

Sorry I didn't realise it was a riding school horse. Thought it was a loan horse. My bad.

 

[tallyho!]

well what can I say...My sister is in floods of tears now thinking that SHE is the one that wants to change the Pelham...She is very fragile and over sensitive at the moment after the death of her beloved son ...People can be so tactless and thoughtless..On the other hand there are some lovely people on here who give support and these are the ones who give our hearts a boost.

If you don't have anything nice to say ... ignore this thread....and go and browbeat someone else.

Shirl

I dont think I was being rude, I was just trying to help. I just take posts at face value with no hard feelings. I'm afraid I didn't know the OPs story. It just looked like a post about an opinion on that Pelham. I certainly didn't mean to hurt anyone - my apologies.

 

[maggie62]

I'm going to go against others here and say you shouldn't be asking to change the tack. The riding school won't be expecting you to want to change the tack and when they ask why, what are you going to say? That you've been talking to a bunch of strangers on a horse forum, because you had a little difficulty with the horse going a bit faster than you'd like on your first hack? It doesn't create the right impression IMO.

I'm not disagreeing that a bit change/change to using two reins etc isn't something good in theory, just that wanting to change the tack on a share horse, especially after just a handful of rides and when you're fresh out of a riding school, isn't the done thing. Instead, I'd use it as a lesson in learning to manage with what you have. The horse probably has had this tack a long time and whilst it may not be ideal, other people have ridden her and manage (or the riding school wouldn't have loaned her out), so maybe try to find out how others cope with the tanking off. It doesn't sound as if the horse was completely out of control or the situation was unsafe, just that you had a minor disagreement over exactly what speed to go at for a while. I'm guessing you pulled up ok eventually? She's probably going to be more forward going or challenging to ride in some way, when out on a hack by herself anyway. A lot of riding school horses know full well when they're in a riding school environment and switch off to some extent, becomming a bit lazy and just following the horse in front.

To the person who keeps referring to D-rings, I know what you mean but they're called roundings and I wouldn't like novices reading this thread to get confused. D-rings are a type of ring found on a snaffle bit :smile3:

Original question
My loaned pony has a Pelham (vulcanite) bit/curb chain with a single set of reins. Will the curb chain have much effect if no curb rein present ?
Obviously I am not knowledgeable about this but just wondered.....not that I would be able to use double reins !!.......enough with single set. May add she is a very mature lady (like mois) but has her head very low in canter....eek !

There was no mention of changing anything...........just asked for info. Please don't make assumptions regarding my School loan pony or the arrangement I have with the owner.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Oh for heavens sake. Floods of tears because I gave some helpful advice to prevent the OP looking like a fool in front of the staff (who may well have been less than impressed) if the OP followed others advice about changing tack???

OP to answer your original question, when roundings are used with a pelham there is constant curb action the whole time you have a contact on the reins.

Spring Arising, no it wasn't you, someone else was calling Pelham roundings D-rings

 

[Roxylola]

Roundings were explained to me as being a bit like driving with the hand brake on a notch, the curb will always be acting a bit when you have a contact. It's not perfect but it's ok to be like that

 

[Celtic Fringe]

I agree with Roxylola and others - a loose curb chain will have some effect but it will be perfectly ok. Me and my old cob were also a rather mature combination and any alterations to tack made no difference at all to him so I wouldn't worry.

As someone said to me 'if you must get old then you can at least get cunning' and my old cob had immense experience and a clever pony brain so while I attended to direction he mostly looked after pace/speed and would often stop and go as he saw fit - not ideal but it worked fine for us! I learned to (mostly) enjoy the 'wheee ....' moments as we stayed safe

Enjoy your horses

 

[maggie62]

Thanks Celtic Fringe........I wasn't going to change anything........just wanted some information regarding pelham, so thanks again.