123o123
Well-Known Member
Why do people have a problem with riding without a top rein or roundings on a pelham and a rein on the bottom?? Surely it has a quite similar effect to that of a gag ?
Pelham with 1 rein, whats the big deal?
- Thread starter 123o123
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Elle1085
Well-Known Member
then why not use a gag? The pelham's not designed to be used with one rein so it's not going to work as intended
Silverspring
Well-Known Member
But it's not how the bit is supposed to be used
A gag has a poll pressure effect only (which IMO is bad enough) but the pelham has poll and curb effect. Using the bottom rein at all times puts alot of pressure on the horse's skull and leaves not room for finesse and rewarding the horse when it comes soft.
Chico Mio
Antedeluvian
Must admit, I used my Pelham with roundings as I am totally incompetent with double reins. We have now got over this by going bitless.
Using the rein on the bottom ring of a pelham is not good. A gag has no curb strap/chain and a pelham does. The action is different.
Using the rein on the bottom ring of a pelham is not good. A gag has no curb strap/chain and a pelham does. The action is different.
123o123
Well-Known Member
I am not saying i use mine like that as i go double but i just keep hearing people going on about it hmmm and saying it works better
123o123
Well-Known Member
Smurphy- I was just being inquisitive as i saw a couple people at last weekends show riding like this and heard it discussed a fair amount before and was just asking for your opinions. I dont think its fair for you to accuse me of being a troll just for a question i asked sorry if you felt i was but i really am not
arwenplusone
Well-Known Member
I kind of think that if you don't know the action of a bit you shouldn't be using it.
If someone can explain a rational argument as to why they are using just one rein then fair enough, but I'm guessing those that do, cannot.
If you struggle with double reins - use roundings. I have no problem with these.
123o123
Well-Known Member
Mayflower- Im not intending to use a single rein and find double quite easy to ride generally and jump with but it seems to be of increased popularity in showjumping over the past couple of shows ive been to
AmyMay
Situation normal
[ QUOTE ]
But it's not how the bit is supposed to be used
A gag has a poll pressure effect only (which IMO is bad enough) but the pelham has poll and curb effect. Using the bottom rein at all times puts alot of pressure on the horse's skull and leaves not room for finesse and rewarding the horse when it comes soft.
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Precisely. We agree
But it's not how the bit is supposed to be used
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Precisely. We agree
AmyMay
Situation normal
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I was just being inquisitive as i saw a couple people at last weekends show riding like this
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Really? I expect they were disqualified for incorrect tack though. So that should say something.....
I was just being inquisitive as i saw a couple people at last weekends show riding like this
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Really? I expect they were disqualified for incorrect tack though. So that should say something.....
arwenplusone
Well-Known Member
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Mayflower- Im not intending to use a single rein and find double quite easy to ride generally and jump with but it seems to be of increased popularity in showjumping over the past couple of shows ive been to
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I wasn't aiming my post at you, just in general.
I would have thought that if they were out jumping they would have been pulled up for not having roundings? Was it BSJA?
Mayflower- Im not intending to use a single rein and find double quite easy to ride generally and jump with but it seems to be of increased popularity in showjumping over the past couple of shows ive been to
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I wasn't aiming my post at you, just in general.
I would have thought that if they were out jumping they would have been pulled up for not having roundings? Was it BSJA?
Silverspring
Well-Known Member
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Precisely. We agree
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I think I just saw a pig fly past the office window
Precisely. We agree
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I think I just saw a pig fly past the office window
bex1984
Well-Known Member
hmmm how odd - so they just had one rein attached to the bottom ring?! Perhaps it "works better" because it slams a load of poll pressure on, along with tightening the chain under the chin...I think i'd stop pretty sharpish if I was the horse! Surely anyone doing that has no idea how a pelham works?!
I rode with roundings for a long time, because I'm a novice and couldn't cope with two reins, and I don't really see anything wrong with using roundings if the horse is happy and the rider feels confident that way (I've now got used to using double reins!) - but one rein?! that's just a bit odd!
I rode with roundings for a long time, because I'm a novice and couldn't cope with two reins, and I don't really see anything wrong with using roundings if the horse is happy and the rider feels confident that way (I've now got used to using double reins!) - but one rein?! that's just a bit odd!
Enfys
Well-Known Member
Riding with one rein or two on a pelham, it makes no difference, with two anyone can pull just as hard on the curb, it isn't as obvious that's all. The SJ'ers bringing one rein back into fashion -again- are they?
Roundings just give an overall duller message, but a lot of horses seem content with them.
Roundings just give an overall duller message, but a lot of horses seem content with them.
SnowPhony
Well-Known Member
I've never seem one rein being used and quite frankly can't understand why anyone would?
FrankieBoy
Well-Known Member
I saw a girl once, Riding with two reins... tie the first rein up on the horses neck and use the second to force her horses head down into the correct possition. Needless to say it wasnt the 'correct' possition, the horse got well and truely annoyed and bounced around on its back legs for a bit...
Theresa_F
Well-Known Member
Many many years ago I rode using a pelham and one rein - but this was the top rein only. The mare I was riding needed a tiny bit more than a snaffle when out hacking or jumping but never needed the second rein.
In those days we didn't have the vast range of bits (or the money) I do now, hence pelham with top rein only.
I would not want to ride with just bottom rein only on a pelham, though with Jemima at first it was nearly all gentle riding on the bottom rein more than top one - though with time she went onto a french link snaffle only. She had a very hard mouth and no idea of what stop meant when I started out with her, hence kinder to use a stronger bit and not haul to get brakes.
In those days we didn't have the vast range of bits (or the money) I do now, hence pelham with top rein only.
I would not want to ride with just bottom rein only on a pelham, though with Jemima at first it was nearly all gentle riding on the bottom rein more than top one - though with time she went onto a french link snaffle only. She had a very hard mouth and no idea of what stop meant when I started out with her, hence kinder to use a stronger bit and not haul to get brakes.
AmyMay
Situation normal
[ QUOTE ]
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Precisely. We agree
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I think I just saw a pig fly past the office window
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[ QUOTE ]
Precisely. We agree
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I think I just saw a pig fly past the office window
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Cyberchick
Well-Known Member
You see there is not much difference to riding in one or two reins if the rider rides more on the bottom rein anyway is there?
I'm not saying this is ok to do, i'm just well..........saying......
I'm not saying this is ok to do, i'm just well..........saying......
Silverspring
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
You see there is not much difference to riding in one or two reins if the rider rides more on the bottom rein anyway is there?
I'm not saying this is ok to do, i'm just well..........saying......
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I agree but the point in riding in a pelham is not to only use the bottom rein and have the top rein for show only. The correct use of a pelham is to ride with the snaffle rein and use the curb rein for flexing the horse only.
I know alot of people use the curb rein as extra brakes which is fair enough as I think it's better than riding in a gag all the time just for those hairy moments that a snaffle just isn't enough but it again is not what the curb rein is for.
As was previously said it was a trend to ride the pelham on the curb only but that was due to a lack of choice, this was back in the day where it was a snaffle, kimblewick, hanging cheek, fulmer or pelham. People looked at you funny if you rode in anything else (for example a Scourier which I used to ride in!) the introduction of the gag about 20 years ago changes all that and I would say the past 10 - 15 years huge advances (some good some bad) have been made in respect of biting. No one should have to resort to a pelham with one rein.
You see there is not much difference to riding in one or two reins if the rider rides more on the bottom rein anyway is there?
I'm not saying this is ok to do, i'm just well..........saying......
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I agree but the point in riding in a pelham is not to only use the bottom rein and have the top rein for show only. The correct use of a pelham is to ride with the snaffle rein and use the curb rein for flexing the horse only.
I know alot of people use the curb rein as extra brakes which is fair enough as I think it's better than riding in a gag all the time just for those hairy moments that a snaffle just isn't enough but it again is not what the curb rein is for.
As was previously said it was a trend to ride the pelham on the curb only but that was due to a lack of choice, this was back in the day where it was a snaffle, kimblewick, hanging cheek, fulmer or pelham. People looked at you funny if you rode in anything else (for example a Scourier which I used to ride in!) the introduction of the gag about 20 years ago changes all that and I would say the past 10 - 15 years huge advances (some good some bad) have been made in respect of biting. No one should have to resort to a pelham with one rein.
miss_c
Well-Known Member
When I bought Mazzie she had a pelham with BOTH reins on the bottom because apparently she wouldn't stop quickly enough for polo. I changed that IMMEDIATELY and never had a problem stopping her.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
I have only seen it once or twice on bottom ring and one of those was years ago in horse magazine in a XC clinic/photo ses. Think it was with lucinda green and she made it clear that this wasn't an acceptable bitting arrangement.
I have no probs with roundings. I am better with double reins than I used to be as now using a double for dressage occasionally and use 2 with a pelham for showing Prefer to stick to roundings for XC and hunting at the mo though.
I have no probs with roundings. I am better with double reins than I used to be as now using a double for dressage occasionally and use 2 with a pelham for showing Prefer to stick to roundings for XC and hunting at the mo though.
Pedantic
Well-Known Member
Why would 2 reins be any better than 1 rein if they are both on the same same part of the bit
marmalade76
Well-Known Member
I used to use a vulcanite pelham with just one rein on the bottom ring with a leather curb. It was recommended by an SJ trainer. I used it for hunting, team chasing, xc and sj. I used a snaffle for hacking and schooling. The horse I used it on was very quick and sharp and was very fussy in the mouth. He needed a bit without a lot of movement and in a gag I would have his neck in my face. The pelham was less effective with roundings and he would lean on it (obviously too comfortable!) and I did not want to use double reins for hunting and team chasing. It is not correct to use a pelham with one rein but it is also not correct to use any kind of drop noseband (flash/grackle) with a curb bit but many many people do.
Using a pelham with one rein is far less severe than a dutch gag with one rein.
Using a pelham with one rein is far less severe than a dutch gag with one rein.
emma69
Well-Known Member
Rather depends which ring of the dutch gag - on the big ring it is no different to a one ring snaffle bit of the same mouth piece.
marmalade76
Well-Known Member
How many people do you see using a dutch gag with one rein on the snaffle ring? Hardly any, I'm willing to bet.
Some people seem to think that a pelham is as severe as a dutch gag, it is not, the leverage on a dutch gag is far greater than that of a pelham and a curb strap can limit the leverage and actually make the bit less severe, as with the curb straps you can get for the Neue Schule universal.
As for people being pulled up at competitons, you can get away with just about anything with BSJA. I was never pulled up for using a pelham with one rein, but when I did RC area and champs, I did put the roundings on as I know they are quite strict on tack, won't let you use standing martingales etc.
Some people seem to think that a pelham is as severe as a dutch gag, it is not, the leverage on a dutch gag is far greater than that of a pelham and a curb strap can limit the leverage and actually make the bit less severe, as with the curb straps you can get for the Neue Schule universal.
As for people being pulled up at competitons, you can get away with just about anything with BSJA. I was never pulled up for using a pelham with one rein, but when I did RC area and champs, I did put the roundings on as I know they are quite strict on tack, won't let you use standing martingales etc.
Elle1085
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Riding with one rein or two on a pelham, it makes no difference, with two anyone can pull just as hard on the curb, it isn't as obvious that's all. The SJ'ers bringing one rein back into fashion -again- are they?
Roundings just give an overall duller message, but a lot of horses seem content with them.
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lets not pick on sjers
I don't think i've ever seen anyone riding with one rein on the bottom ring so i don't think it's that common tbh and as far as i'm aware it's certainly not coming into fashion, there are so many weird bits out there now that there's really no need to mess around with the classics. I use a pelham btw with roundings cos it works for my horse and i've seen people at shows using 2 reins and dropping the bottom one but never the top.
Riding with one rein or two on a pelham, it makes no difference, with two anyone can pull just as hard on the curb, it isn't as obvious that's all. The SJ'ers bringing one rein back into fashion -again- are they?
Roundings just give an overall duller message, but a lot of horses seem content with them.
[/ QUOTE ]
lets not pick on sjers
I don't think i've ever seen anyone riding with one rein on the bottom ring so i don't think it's that common tbh and as far as i'm aware it's certainly not coming into fashion, there are so many weird bits out there now that there's really no need to mess around with the classics. I use a pelham btw with roundings cos it works for my horse and i've seen people at shows using 2 reins and dropping the bottom one but never the top.
emma69
Well-Known Member
Lots! It is a very versitile bit, and we had a few in the riding school who used it as their everyday bit - my personal favourite was a french link mouthpiece (as it is such a faff changing tack around, things always go walkies etc). For school work, most riders would just ride one rein on the snaffle ring. More advanced riders sometimes used two reins to get more from the horse. Out hacking, again, snaffle ring was great, but if the horse started to get a little strong it could easily be flipped down to the middle ring. Whilst not ideally how I would use the bit, it was certainly effective, and easy. About 80% of the time there was one rein on the snaffle ring. I know a fair number of private horses who have it as their 'we are going somewhere exciting / new and need to have an option to go a little stronger if we need to, without taking extra reins or metal work with us' bit.
Personally, I used a dutch gag when taking new horses out (we bought most horses from the sales). I would always start out on the snaffle ring (I see no need in going strong straight away, but I know some who won't give the horse the benefit of the doubt), but if I was finding I had very little brakes, would switch down to the middle - I don't recall ever going to the third ring with one rein.
Personally, I used a dutch gag when taking new horses out (we bought most horses from the sales). I would always start out on the snaffle ring (I see no need in going strong straight away, but I know some who won't give the horse the benefit of the doubt), but if I was finding I had very little brakes, would switch down to the middle - I don't recall ever going to the third ring with one rein.
Enfys
Well-Known Member
[lets not pick on sjers
I haven't watched, or taken much interest in British SJ for a long, long time now, but back in the mists of time when I was a child, if a showjumper did it then that was 'the' thing to do.
There were so few choices of bits then that actually most people seemed to use some kind of snaffle, a standing martingale (whoo, shock, horror! and a drop noseband. I often wonder what the difference between horses and riders are now that so much more is needed?)
I like pelhams, as Emma says they really are very versatile.
Groom42
Well-Known Member
I have complained to ring stewards whenever I have seen a pelham being used in this way, usually with the result that the rider is told,"change it, or go home"! The three ring gag seems to have replaced the kimblewick as the "trend" bit. To explain, when I was a child,(many years ago!) if a child struggled to stop in a snaffle, the K was the next step - today it appears to be the three-ring. I actually believe the K is a forgotten bit by many people, and would suggest that if a curb bit is required, but the rider feels unable to cope with the extra reins of a pelham,then the K fits the bill. I cannot see how a pelham on roundings can work as intended. This is just my opinion, and probably a very simplistic view. I also believe that if the third ring of a gag is required, double reins should be used as well.